| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Does publicizing a freeware tool break site rules? Thread poster: Michael Farrell
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| Freeware Forum | Oct 8, 2008 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
Not necessarily. Freeware tools can detract from paid tools whose developers pay money to advertise on ProZ.com. Talk about a conflict of interest!
Still, the rules are clear. Freewares are not "commercial solicitation". They are free tools developed for translators by translators. So no rule is broken. Unless the rules are changed.
Still, I think many translators have tool-creation skills and there should be a forum where translators can discuss such tools (created by themselves or others), with topics about how to improve tools, topics that contain wishlists, topics where users announce their own tools (or tools in whose development they are actively involved in), etc. What would you think of such a subforum?
I think that's a great idea and would be very helpful for us.
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If someone other than the author publicizes a freeware program because it was genuinely found to be of use, should that count as a breach of site rules? I recently did so with ApSIC XBench on another thread (oops, there I go again!) and no one objected.
However, a case can be made that publicizing your own freeware on a forum, versus some other means of advertising (such as including it on your profile, perhaps along with glossaries, if possible), may count as a breach.
... See more If someone other than the author publicizes a freeware program because it was genuinely found to be of use, should that count as a breach of site rules? I recently did so with ApSIC XBench on another thread (oops, there I go again!) and no one objected.
However, a case can be made that publicizing your own freeware on a forum, versus some other means of advertising (such as including it on your profile, perhaps along with glossaries, if possible), may count as a breach.
Interesting issue! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Maria Karra 
United States
Local time: 06:37
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
Anil wrote: If someone other than the author publicizes a freeware program because it was genuinely found to be of use, should that count as a breach of site rules?
No.
I recently did so with ApSIC XBench on another thread (oops, there I go again!) and no one objected. .
Of course. When we discuss a software product -free or not- in a forum, we usually mention its strong points and its weak points, we may compare it with other similar products, we explain why we decided to use it in the first place, etc. In other words, it's an objective review of the product. And this type of posting is welcome and appreciated in the forums because it includes information that is helpful to the community. It's not advertising, it is knowledge-sharing.
Now about freeware specifically:
However, a case can be made that publicizing your own freeware on a forum, versus some other means of advertising (such as including it on your profile, perhaps along with glossaries, if possible), may count as a breach.
No, I'm afraid there's some misunderstanding here. First of all we can't generalize; every case is different, it's all about how you present your application. (Mike, I'm not referring to you here, I'm just trying to answer to Anil with an example.) Let's say that someone creates an application and puts it on their website. If that person posts a description of the application in the forums, along with a link to the page from which you can download it, I find that perfectly acceptable and, in fact, really useful. If, on the other hand, that user posts a link to the main page of his website, and it takes us several steps to find the download link, having to go through some pages, a dozen banners, large headers listing the translator's services, perhaps a link to the translator's resume, until we finally see the application to download, I consider that to be advertising.
Again, this has nothing to do with Mike; I believe Mike's original question was addressed by Jon. I'm just saying that the answer to your question, Anil, is: "It depends"!
| | | | Maria Karra
United States
Local time: 06:37
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
Samuel Murray wrote:
Still, I think many translators have tool-creation skills and there should be a forum where translators can discuss such tools (created by themselves or others), with topics about how to improve tools, topics that contain wishlists, topics where users announce their own tools (or tools in whose development they are actively involved in), etc. What would you think of such a subforum?
Why not use Software Applications or Translator Resources?
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Maria Karra
United States
Local time: 06:37
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
Michael Farrell wrote:
In the case of the French forum, I must admit I crossed my fingers and hoped no one would write. I can understand the gist of written French, but I would have had to apologize and reply in English if anyone had started a discussion.
Your question has however given me an idea. I think I will ask for volunteers on the tool users' group to compose and post one publicity message each on each of the non-English ProZ forums concerned (a total of four or five I think). In other words, I will not be the sender.
Jon, Maria, would that be acceptable?
Hi again, Mike!
I don't think that's necessary. If you created the tool, you're the best person to post about it and to answer any questions, because you know better than anyone how it works. (Plus, if we have problems with it, it's good to know who to bug ).
You can ask volunteers to post on your behalf if you want, or you can ask them to assist if you need to reply in a language that you don't speak very well, it's up to you. The important thing here is to write the content by following Jon's advice.
Maria
| | | | | I don't get it | Oct 9, 2008 |
How come SDL is allowed to post invitations to their website, which is a form of self-promotion any way you look at it? How come forum contributors are allowed to sign their posts with a link to their websites? That is pure self-promotion as well. Isn't the mere fact that we have profiles on this site already self-promotion? Where is that invisible line that makes all of the above right, but makes the promotion of a handy freeware tool wrong?
It's about a free tool that is useful fo... See more How come SDL is allowed to post invitations to their website, which is a form of self-promotion any way you look at it? How come forum contributors are allowed to sign their posts with a link to their websites? That is pure self-promotion as well. Isn't the mere fact that we have profiles on this site already self-promotion? Where is that invisible line that makes all of the above right, but makes the promotion of a handy freeware tool wrong?
It's about a free tool that is useful for translators and there is clearly no commercial interest behind its promotion. This is a community, supposedly for translators. If we are not allowed to help each other out on a forum meant precisely for that, where can we do it?
[Edited at 2008-10-09 02:56] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Clarisa Moraña
United States
Local time: 05:37
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
+ ...
| And what about if a friend of mine writes a goo translation book? | Oct 9, 2008 |
And I would like to recommend it to my colleagues? Or if I go to a nice restaurant and I want to share my experience?
Do I refrain to post any comments here?
Kind regards
Clarisa
| | | | | I am for a subforum about tool creation | Oct 9, 2008 |
[quote]Claudia Alvis wrote:
Samuel Murray wrote: Still, I think many translators have tool-creation skills and there should be a forum where translators can discuss such tools (created by themselves or others), with topics about how to improve tools, topics that contain wishlists, topics where users announce their own tools (or tools in whose development they are actively involved in), etc. What would you think of such a subforum? I think that's a great idea and would be very helpful for us.
It is a very good idea indeed.
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| Other languages only have one forum | Oct 9, 2008 |
Maria Karra wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
Still, I think many translators have tool-creation skills and there should be a forum where translators can discuss such tools (created by themselves or others), with topics about how to improve tools, topics that contain wishlists, topics where users announce their own tools (or tools in whose development they are actively involved in), etc. What would you think of such a subforum? Why not use Software Applications or Translator Resources?
Where do I find "Software Applications" or "Translator Resources" in languages other than English?
Forums addressed to a specific topic are only in English as far as I know. Other languages have just one forum to contain all subjects under the sun.
| | | | | Do not have others post on your behalf | Oct 9, 2008 |
Maria Karra wrote: Your question has however given me an idea. I think I will ask for volunteers on the tool users' group to compose and post one publicity message each on each of the non-English ProZ forums concerned (a total of four or five I think). In other words, I will not be the sender.
Jon, Maria, would that be acceptable?
Hi again, Mike! I don't think that's necessary. If you created the tool, you're the best person to post about it and to answer any questions, because you know better than anyone how it works. (Plus, if we have problems with it, it's good to know who to bug ). You can ask volunteers to post on your behalf if you want, or you can ask them to assist if you need to reply in a language that you don't speak very well, it's up to you. The important thing here is to write the content by following Jon's advice. Maria
Also, licensing is VERY important. Be up front and clear about the licensing. If you have to give away personal information or sign up for something, sign a huge EULA allowing tracking software / spyware, if it's a trial / crippleware / shareware, or if it's released with something other than a BSD / MIT / GNU / etc. style license, then it's probably not free and will be treated as commercial software.
Best regards,
Jon
| | | | | Strong argument in favour of multilingual cross-posting | Oct 10, 2008 |
I wrote this message earlier, but had problems and was not able to post it. It has been partly answered by Jon already, since it is implicit that I will be allowed to cross-post multilingually, but I have decided to post what I wrote anyway because I think the rule should be made clearer.
Jon Peck wrote:
The issue is the way the information was presented, not the language that it was presented in.
In the meantime I have received a private reply from the moderator who removed my post. In her message she quotes http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/3#3 as an additional reason why she confirms her decision. This, together with Maria Karra's earlier post in this thread (quoted below), suggests that multilingual cross-posting is an issue for some moderators. Perhaps you would like to discuss this among yourselves and clarify it.
Maria Karra wrote:
Also, please keep in mind another rule: that we cannot post the same thing more than once. You can reach a large audience by posting in Translator Resources, as you have done in the past, making sure you follow Jon's advice.
I have a statistic which suggests you should have written "You can reach a large minority audience by posting in Translator Resources".
I recently received permission to post two articles about the tool on the IntelliWebSearch website, one in English and one in French. Guess which one has been viewed most frequently?
Well, actually, they are neck and neck, but if you consider that the English one has been there for two days longer, it's French that is out front.
A kind IntelliWebSearch user informed me that news of the article had spread to two French language forums he was subscribed to in a matter of hours after I posted it. This reaction spurred me to write about it myself in French (with difficulty) on ProZ a few days later.
All this suggests that there is a fair number of French speaking colleagues out there who do not read English language forums, and I'm not only referring to ProZ.
If you extrapolate this to the other languages IntellliWebSearch has localized interfaces for, I think you can safely say there is a vast majority of ProZ users who cannot be reached through the Translator Resources forum. And it would be a shame to deprive them of IntelliWebSearch
I feel this is a strong argument in favour of allowing multilingual cross-posting.
Regards
Mike
[Edited at 2008-10-10 04:48]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 12:37
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| The forums are not promotional avenues | Oct 10, 2008 |
Michael Farrell wrote:
If you extrapolate this to the other languages IntellliWebSearch has localized interfaces for, I think you can safely say there is a vast majority of ProZ users who cannot be reached through the Translator Resources forum.
The fact that you want to "reach" translators through the forums shows that you regard the forums as an avenue for promotion, not as a place for discussion.
You want to broadcast your message to the largest possible number of people. This sentence of mine also contains the problem, namely "broadcast" (which the opposite of targeted discussions) and "message" (which is a monologue or non-interactivity).
The forums are mainly there for discussion, not notices (this is my opinion). Well, some forums obviously have a more notice-like appeal or method of operation, but there is not AFAIK a forum on ProZ.com that acts as a notice board.
Perhaps you should think this through and submit a suggestion about having a ProZ.com notice board. A notice board with sub boards like "software" (where you can advertise your product), "introductions" (where translators can say 'here I am, give me work'), "news" etc. The idea I have is that there should be no discussions, and notices should scroll off-screen (and into an archive) after a few days. There should also be moderators, and of course rules about not posting about a certain issue more than once (eg, in the "introductions" section you can 'introduce' yourself and your services only once, heh-heh). I believe such a board could be very useful. Think about it, and submit a suggestion for it.
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| | | Promotion does not exclude discussion | Oct 10, 2008 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
The fact that you want to "reach" translators through the forums shows that you regard the forums as an avenue for promotion, not as a place for discussion.
Well, my initial question was: does publicizing a freeware tool break site rules?
And your answer boils down to: yes, it should.
However I am perfectly aware of where I am posting. If someone posts a reply containing a question I am perfectly willing to answer it, and if you look through the ProZ archives you will find that I have done so in the past.
I must admit that I had not thought through how I was going to do this in languages I can't understand. My solution, after you raised the point, was to have volunteers post on my behalf, but I am now going to have to think of something else.
In any case discussions can and have arisen from announcements, so I do not think they are so incompatible as you make out provided the poster is willing to accept the consequences of what they are doing, i.e. possibly having to follow up the initial post.
Regards
Mike
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 12:37
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Victor Dewsbery wrote:
I consider the following posts legitimate, but some people who have contributed to the present thread seem to see this differently (and Samuel even seems to believe that such posts should be held back until a new forum has been created - and presumably a separate new forum for every language that the information is to be posted in).
If I created that impression, allow me to correct it. I have never said that self-promotional posts should be held back, and I have not said nor implied that certain posts should be posted in non-English forums only once an appropriate subforum is created. My answers to the OP reflect my interpretation of the ProZ.com culture and not merely my personal opinion. If I were the boss of ProZ.com, blatant advertising would be permitted in the forums. If I were a moderator, I'd apply the ProZ.com rules, principles and culture.
[Edited at 2008-10-10 13:52]
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