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How to hide usage of machine translation in Trados Studio 2009.
Thread poster: europeanPRO

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 06:47
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
A slightly off-topic question to Paul Jan 11, 2013

SDL Support wrote:
Certainly nothing is hidden here as the SDLXLIFF files are all available for anyone to see... in fact it's even part of the XLIFF specification to retain information relating to where the translation match came from. (check the origin attribute in the XLIFF spec.)


Would fiddling with (hacking, editing, whatnot) the "origin" attribute in the SDLXLIFF file have any impact on subsequent word counts?

I mean, could it be that if those of us who simply edit the SDLXLIFF file in a text editor to change the "origin" entry and similar entries (for the sake of privacy) would cause the document statistics to be different in a way that would affect the amount of money that the client pays for the translation?

Obviously I'm not asking this to know of ways to increase my fee artificially (though some may use the information like that), but because I would specifically not want to be guilty of affecting the word count of the file that is fair.


 

Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 06:47
English to Czech
+ ...
On law and ethics Jan 11, 2013

Samuel Murray wrote:
But if the translator is an independent contractor and his agreement with the client is for a contract of work, not a contract of service, then the client has no specific right to know whether the translator had used machine translation (regardless of whether the client had made known any wishes about it).


Paul Filkin wrote:
Irrespective of any CAT tool related discussion I could not agree with this statement at all under any circumstances. You seem to be saying that even if the Client specifically asked not have their confidential material shared with Google or any other public MT engine that it would still be ok to do this if you wanted and then hide this fact from your Client.


Gentlemen, with all due respect, I think you are mixing apples and oranges. As I understand it, Samuel is discussing the legal side while Paul is talking about the ethical point of view. As law and ethics are (unfortunately enough) usually two very different things, and very distant from each other, it will be hard – if not impossible – to reach an agreement about this.

For some reasons, I tend to incline to the ethical POV.

[Upraveno: 2013-01-11 12:21 GMT]


 

Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:47
French to Polish
+ ...
Another face of MyMemory.. Jan 28, 2013

Stanislav Pokorny wrote:

Paul Filkin wrote:
Irrespective of any CAT tool related discussion I could not agree with this statement at all under any circumstances. You seem to be saying that even if the Client specifically asked not have their confidential material shared with Google or any other public MT engine that it would still be ok to do this if you wanted and then hide this fact from your Client.


Gentlemen, with all due respect, I think you are mixing apples and oranges. As I understand it, Samuel is discussing the legal side while Paul is talking about the ethical point of view. As law and ethics are (unfortunately enough) usually two very different things, and very distant from each other, it will be hard – if not impossible – to reach an agreement about this.

For some reasons, I tend to incline to the ethical POV.


The things considered as unethical for a freelance translator are truly worthy, just, right and salutary, proactive and cost-effective for corporations.

I.e. just install the MyMemory plugin.
It forwards your text to Google, retrieves the machine translation and inserts it as a 85% match.
If one works for the plugin publisher, the rates are reduced accordingly...

For some details, see:
http://www.proz.com/forum/money_matters/241918-article_about_fair_rate_for_post_editing-page2.html

Cheers
GG


 

Jeff Chapman  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 13:47
Japanese to English
+ ...
I asked my client about this... May 12, 2013

Rudolf Vedo CT wrote:

SDL Support wrote:
Why do you want to hide this? The other information that is stored is whether or not you have had to make any changes to the MT or not, so this is also visible which allows your client to see you have still made sure the translation was correct.
Why do you want to hide this?
Paul


Some clients' translator agreements prohibit the use web-based MT due to confidentiality concerns alone, irrespective of any quality considerations.


This is a valuable discussion that covers several aspects, both from a technological standpoint ("how do we remove those pesky 'TM' indicators from the SDLXLIFF file?") and an ethical standpoint ("should I tell my client that I am using machine translation?")

I do a lot of technical translation in the automotive and machinery sector, among other things. I was exploring the use of the Google Translate API to provide reference translations as I worked. Based on my previous experiences with machine translation, my expectations were low. Machine translation seems to be a vaguely useful technology for source text that follows very distinct and easy-to-grasp patterns that contain a high level of repetition. SDL Trados Studio 2011 has a plug-in for Google Translate that seems to work well enough.

Before actually using the Google Translate plug-in on a project, however, I actually took the advice of one of the posters on this thread, and decided to ask my client if I could enable the plug-in. I told them that I would just be using it for reference, and that it is an API with a secure connection to the Google Translate server. I told them that this would result in a large number of TUs marked "AT" showing up in the SDLXLIFF file, but I reassured them that I would be personally reviewing and overwriting or deleting any machine translation that was not accurate or useful.

As expected, the client said that using this plug-in would result in leakage of information and hence a breach of the confidentiality agreement. I replied that I would thereafter not use the plug-in, but that Google does publicly state in their Google Translate API agreement that they do not store the text sent to them via the API, nor do they use the data for any purpose expect to provide you with the service. As far as we can trust Google, it seemed to be a reasonably safe service; but nevertheless, I no longer use the Google Translate API for that client.

On the other hand, if I had decided to start using desktop machine translation software, I probably would not bother to ask at all, since the information would not be sent over the Web, and would simply be a part of my own internal processes. I don't feel the need to tell my clients about every single tool I am using in the translation process, and I don't think they care. What they do and should care about, however, is whether their data is being sent out of house, even though the means may be seemingly secure and innocuous.

The bottom line is: I'm glad I asked. I respect my clients and their confidentiality, even though the risks of using such a plug-in seem quite low. In fact, I will ask each client I work with whether they permit the use of this plug-in or not. It just feels right, not only from a client confidentiality standpoint, but from the standpoint of my own peace-of-mind as well.


 

Pavel Tsvetkov  Identity Verified
Bulgaria
Local time: 07:47
Member (2008)
English to Bulgarian
+ ...

MODERATOR
A Valid Question Oct 9, 2013

Modern translation will move more and more in the direction of editing MT, and getting away from translating from scratch. However, the recognition of this phenomenon happens slower for the outsourcer than for the translator. Hence, this is a valid and important question.

If the job is done in excellent quality, what concern is it for the outsourcer what means the translator has used to complete the project? It should be of no importance. Therefore translators should have all tools
... See more
Modern translation will move more and more in the direction of editing MT, and getting away from translating from scratch. However, the recognition of this phenomenon happens slower for the outsourcer than for the translator. Hence, this is a valid and important question.

If the job is done in excellent quality, what concern is it for the outsourcer what means the translator has used to complete the project? It should be of no importance. Therefore translators should have all tools available to them to use.
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_andy_
Local time: 21:47
English to Norwegian
+ ...
Legit reasons for wanting to hide MT Jun 5, 2014

The SDL person here seems a bit clueless, forgive me for saying so. I looked up this thread because I also have the need to avoid AT showing up in my file. The reason is because my clients are not translation experts and are sometimes ignorant to what this AT thing means. They think it means that I have just run it through an automatic tool without looking at it, while I of course explain it's a tool, that also requires human quality control. But they do not understand this. All they understand ... See more
The SDL person here seems a bit clueless, forgive me for saying so. I looked up this thread because I also have the need to avoid AT showing up in my file. The reason is because my clients are not translation experts and are sometimes ignorant to what this AT thing means. They think it means that I have just run it through an automatic tool without looking at it, while I of course explain it's a tool, that also requires human quality control. But they do not understand this. All they understand is AT vs human. So it basically avoids the problem altogether by avoiding it saying AT in the file. It is not that the client doesn't want AT to be used (frankly they don't even really know what it is). But they think it is a warning signal of bad quality when it is in fact not that. So hopefully now you can understand a bit better why AT should ideally not appear in the window!Collapse


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:47
Member (1970)
English
Oh... Jun 5, 2014

_andy_ wrote:

The SDL person here seems a bit clueless, forgive me for saying so. I looked up this thread because I also have the need to avoid AT showing up in my file. The reason is because my clients are not translation experts and are sometimes ignorant to what this AT thing means. They think it means that I have just run it through an automatic tool without looking at it, while I of course explain it's a tool, that also requires human quality control. But they do not understand this. All they understand is AT vs human. So it basically avoids the problem altogether by avoiding it saying AT in the file. It is not that the client doesn't want AT to be used (frankly they don't even really know what it is). But they think it is a warning signal of bad quality when it is in fact not that. So hopefully now you can understand a bit better why AT should ideally not appear in the window!


... thank you. Now I understand!


 

Lianne van de Ven  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:47
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
How to: Jun 10, 2014

Open sdlxliff in text editor and change the 2 following elements:
mt -> tm
Google Translate -> SDL:OriginalTranslationHash

Why?
Because I don't see any reason for software to log this info - JUST BECAUSE IT CAN.

Employers in brick & mortar work places could attach devices to their employees to totally log and control them, but they don't - and there are good reasons for why they don't.

Yes, most people use CAT tools, but on average they do
... See more
Open sdlxliff in text editor and change the 2 following elements:
mt -> tm
Google Translate -> SDL:OriginalTranslationHash

Why?
Because I don't see any reason for software to log this info - JUST BECAUSE IT CAN.

Employers in brick & mortar work places could attach devices to their employees to totally log and control them, but they don't - and there are good reasons for why they don't.

Yes, most people use CAT tools, but on average they don't really save time as tasks get more complex - but who acknowledges that?

They (may) help improve quality and aid in consistency.

They can be fun to use if you're geeky.

BEST OF ALL: THEY MAY HELP AVOID CARPAL TUNNEL SYNDROME.

[Edited at 2014-06-10 02:56 GMT]
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Lianne van de Ven  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:47
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Update Jul 31, 2014

The option I referred to above does not work anymore in Studio 2014 - or I am not exactly sure what or why. The sdlxliff files in a text editor now run into over 170,000 columns instead of around 1350. The coding for the sdlxliff's has changed and you cannot make these edits in a text editor anymore.

No more comments for now.


 

Noha Kamal, PhD.  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:47
English to Arabic
+ ...
Can you please elaborate on that? Sep 24, 2014

Hi Lianne,

I followed your method and I think I managed to do it. But now I cannot open the file because it returned an error saying an invalid character in line 63 position 113.

Is there somehow I can fix that?

Thanks.

Lianne van de Ven wrote:

Open sdlxliff in text editor and change the 2 following elements:
mt -> tm
Google Translate -> SDL:OriginalTranslationHash

Why?
Because I don't see any reason for software to log this info - JUST BECAUSE IT CAN.

Employers in brick & mortar work places could attach devices to their employees to totally log and control them, but they don't - and there are good reasons for why they don't.

Yes, most people use CAT tools, but on average they don't really save time as tasks get more complex - but who acknowledges that?

They (may) help improve quality and aid in consistency.

They can be fun to use if you're geeky.

BEST OF ALL: THEY MAY HELP AVOID CARPAL TUNNEL SYNDROME.

[Edited at 2014-06-10 02:56 GMT]


[Edited at 2014-09-24 08:01 GMT]


 

Lianne van de Ven  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:47
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
"How to" still works Jan 16, 2015

Noha Kamal, PhD. wrote:

Hi Lianne,

I followed your method and I think I managed to do it. But now I cannot open the file because it returned an error saying an invalid character in line 63 position 113.

Is there somehow I can fix that?

Thanks.



Hi Noha,

I am sorry, I am just now seeing your message.
I just tried this again, and it worked fine indeed. Maybe I made an error, not sure what happened. So, yes, back to recommending the method I described above.

As for the error you mention, did you make a mistake with the copy-pasting?
I forgot to mention that when you use "replace all" in a text editor, it is important to search for "whole words only" when your replace mt with tm. And of course: always make back-ups first of files you are going to edit.

See if you can find out what the invalid character is by comparing before and after edit?
Or could this be of any help?
http://tradoserrors.tumblr.com/post/32808305537/today-hexadecimal-value-0x1f-is-an-invalid


 

Mervyn Henderson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 06:47
Member
Spanish to English
+ ...
I haven't a clue either, but you forgot to mention ... Jan 16, 2015

_andy_ wrote:

The SDL person here seems a bit clueless, forgive me for saying so. I looked up this thread because I also have the need to avoid AT showing up in my file. The reason is because my clients are not translation experts and are sometimes ignorant to what this AT thing means. They think it means that I have just run it through an automatic tool without looking at it, while I of course explain it's a tool, that also requires human quality control. But they do not understand this. All they understand is AT vs human. So it basically avoids the problem altogether by avoiding it saying AT in the file. It is not that the client doesn't want AT to be used (frankly they don't even really know what it is). But they think it is a warning signal of bad quality when it is in fact not that. So hopefully now you can understand a bit better why AT should ideally not appear in the window!




... that the main reason people want a translation in the first place is that they will often not fully understand a text if it is written in a language that is not their own.

Just to shed some light on it all.


Mervyn


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:47
Member (1970)
English
Perhaps... Jan 16, 2015

... you should stop trying to edit the SDLXLIFF files which I think is inappropriate and risks corrupting the files if you are not careful.

You can also use MT through AutoSuggest. So as long as you know how to speak the language in the first place, and I assume everyone who wants to be able to hide the use of AT can do this, then it may be a sensible way forward.

The way it works is that rather than prepopulate the target with a complete result from the MT engine, you
... See more
... you should stop trying to edit the SDLXLIFF files which I think is inappropriate and risks corrupting the files if you are not careful.

You can also use MT through AutoSuggest. So as long as you know how to speak the language in the first place, and I assume everyone who wants to be able to hide the use of AT can do this, then it may be a sensible way forward.

The way it works is that rather than prepopulate the target with a complete result from the MT engine, you translate as normal and suggestion via AutoSuggest are provided from the MT engine based on what you are typing and the source content. This method does not put AT into the document and gives you more control over what you are doing. It can also be used in conjunction with other sources, so for a translator it's quite a good resource.

You can read more on this here : The ins and outs of AutoSuggest

I'd also add something to the comments on my cluelessness. Of course I understand why some of you want to be able to do this but stand by my previous comments. What I don't understand is how any client who owns Studio in the first place, as this is the only scenario where this discussion is an issue, could not understand anything about translation. Why would they even want to get the SDLXLIFF back and have to handle the files as part of a translation workflow if they knew nothing about translation. I'm sorry, but for me this is a ridiculous assertion.

If your Client specifically says "don't use MT" then you should not use it and you charge accordingly. It's as simple as that. So even using MT AutoSuggest would break the confidence your Client placed in you when they gave you the work.

Regards

Paul
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Lianne van de Ven  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:47
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Another option Jan 21, 2015

... that avoids potentially corrupting the file or doing something inappropriate (I think) is to use a few keyboard shortcuts as you are reviewing your translation:

1) Place cursor before the first character (or tag) in your first AT segment and use "select all" (ctrl+shift+down arrow)
2) Then copy (ctrl+C)
3) Then clear target content (alt+del) (my custom shortcut is ctrl+alt+:)
4) Then paste (ctrl+V)
... See more
... that avoids potentially corrupting the file or doing something inappropriate (I think) is to use a few keyboard shortcuts as you are reviewing your translation:

1) Place cursor before the first character (or tag) in your first AT segment and use "select all" (ctrl+shift+down arrow)
2) Then copy (ctrl+C)
3) Then clear target content (alt+del) (my custom shortcut is ctrl+alt+:)
4) Then paste (ctrl+V)
5) Commit and move to the next (AT) segment

Every so often, Studio doesn't respond to ctrl+V as if it has lost its focus in the target field. Just hit enter first which seems to refocus it, then use ctrl+V.

This sequence of actions removes the AT score as well.


[Edited at 2015-01-21 06:38 GMT]
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Lianne van de Ven  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:47
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Autosuggest plugin Jan 21, 2015

SDL Support wrote:

You can also use MT through AutoSuggest. So as long as you know how to speak the language in the first place, and I assume everyone who wants to be able to hide the use of AT can do this, then it may be a sensible way forward.

The way it works is that rather than prepopulate the target with a complete result from the MT engine, you translate as normal and suggestion via AutoSuggest are provided from the MT engine based on what you are typing and the source content. This method does not put AT into the document and gives you more control over what you are doing. It can also be used in conjunction with other sources, so for a translator it's quite a good resource.

You can read more on this here : The ins and outs of AutoSuggest

(....)

If your Client specifically says "don't use MT" then you should not use it and you charge accordingly. It's as simple as that. So even using MT AutoSuggest would break the confidence your Client placed in you when they gave you the work.

Regards

Paul


Thanks for the autosuggest plugin suggestion, Paul. That works and may work even better once someone is used to it.

Technically, it remains somewhat of a grey area when it comes to the use of MT and other tools and the issue of confidentiality. Sure, upon client request, and when you use searches, MT or otherwise, you need to remove identifying information, but where exactly draw the line between words, phrases, sentences, content and one IP address? If you really need to be safe, it is important to stay offline and get paid accordingly. But I think that is all a far cry from the issue of somewhat hard to remove AT scores in the software that we use, scores that different people frown upon for various other reasons.


 
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