| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | 9th ProZ.com translation contest: Business. Qualification and final voting phases will start soon Thread poster: Lucia Leszinsky
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| Truncated comments - support request submitted on Sept 21 | Sep 25, 2009 |
Lucia,
I did submit a support ticket regarding the truncated comments as you requested, the ticket is here:
http://www.proz.com/ticket/152342
(Only Lucia can see it, there is no point for others to click on it.)
As you can see from some recent comments, the truncation problem is present in Russian, too, and I believe it is for the same reason (non-Latin encoded characters ... See more Lucia,
I did submit a support ticket regarding the truncated comments as you requested, the ticket is here:
http://www.proz.com/ticket/152342
(Only Lucia can see it, there is no point for others to click on it.)
As you can see from some recent comments, the truncation problem is present in Russian, too, and I believe it is for the same reason (non-Latin encoded characters are not counted correctly).
Can something be done about this?
I also saw quite a few "undefined" comments in tags in English-Hungarian, too.
Katalin ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Checking issue | Sep 25, 2009 |
Thanks Katalin, Alessio and Natalia.
I am looking into this right now.
Thanks for your patience.
Regards,
Lucia
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 02:13
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| How about contests with a discussion round? | Sep 25, 2009 |
One rule of the current contest is that we're not allowed to discuss the source texts in the forums. I understand why there is such a rule, but I also think that discussing a source text can be a very enjoyable and educational experience. I think that some contests should be discussion-allowed contests, in which the submission phase is preceded by one week in which no submissions can be made but the source texts may be discussed in the forums. Then, once the submission phase is open, no more ... See more One rule of the current contest is that we're not allowed to discuss the source texts in the forums. I understand why there is such a rule, but I also think that discussing a source text can be a very enjoyable and educational experience. I think that some contests should be discussion-allowed contests, in which the submission phase is preceded by one week in which no submissions can be made but the source texts may be discussed in the forums. Then, once the submission phase is open, no more discussing the source texts is allowed in the forums. I think every discussion-allowed contest should be followed by a no-discussion contest. ▲ Collapse
| | | | patyjs
Mexico
Local time: 18:13
Spanish to English
+ ...
| That's an interesting idea, Samuel. | Sep 25, 2009 |
I agree that much of the enjoyment from the contests comes from exchanging ideas. However, I can see that it may also take away some of the challenges. There are at least three parts of the Spanish to English text (to give an example) which, had they been resolved in a pre-contest discussion, would have left a much larger number of entries practically indistinguishable from each other in terms of accuracy.
Still, I would welcome the opportunity to discuss the particular challenges o... See more I agree that much of the enjoyment from the contests comes from exchanging ideas. However, I can see that it may also take away some of the challenges. There are at least three parts of the Spanish to English text (to give an example) which, had they been resolved in a pre-contest discussion, would have left a much larger number of entries practically indistinguishable from each other in terms of accuracy.
Still, I would welcome the opportunity to discuss the particular challenges of the texts although there's nothing to stop us doing so after the event. I remember there have been some really interesting discussions in the past but only between 2 or 3 entrants/voters.
Certainly bears looking into.
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| Issue with incomplete comments accompanying agree/disagree posts for tags fixed | Sep 25, 2009 |
Hello all,
I just want to inform you that the issue with cut comments has been fixed and that comments should show complete from now on.
However, I am afraid it was not possible to retrieve the lost parts of the comments that were cut. All those affected by this issue will be contacted with instructions on how to get those comments back.
As for "Undefined" comments in agree/disagree posts in tags and comments not showing for agree/disagree posts in 'Like'... See more Hello all,
I just want to inform you that the issue with cut comments has been fixed and that comments should show complete from now on.
However, I am afraid it was not possible to retrieve the lost parts of the comments that were cut. All those affected by this issue will be contacted with instructions on how to get those comments back.
As for "Undefined" comments in agree/disagree posts in tags and comments not showing for agree/disagree posts in 'Like' tags (reported here), we are still looking into this.
Thanks for your patience.
Regards,
Lucia ▲ Collapse
| | | | Susan Welsh
United States
Local time: 20:13
Russian to English
+ ...
| "undefined" - in RU-EN too | Sep 25, 2009 |
Natalia Mackevich wrote:
Your comment "undefined" for a contest entry in English>>Russian has been approved.
I had the same problem this morning in RU-EN.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 02:13
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Discussions *after* the event | Sep 25, 2009 |
patyjs wrote:
Still, I would welcome the opportunity to discuss the particular challenges of the texts although there's nothing to stop us doing so after the event.
I would not participate in a discussion *after* the contest simply because the novelty by that time is gone. I suspect some people feel the same. A discussion before the contest may draw more interest because it concerns an upcoming event.
| | | | Lianne van de Ven
United States
Local time: 20:13
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
| disproportionate dislikes, quibbles & nitpickeds | Sep 25, 2009 |
**
"And, for an earnest of a greater honour,
He bade me, from him, call thee thane of Cawdor:
In which addition, hail, most worthy thane!
For it is thine."
-- W. Shakespeare, Macbeth
Nitpicker: "Dislike"
Comments: Grammar error. Ungrammatical. Sentence starts with "and."
Syntax. Incomplete sentence.
**
"Knock, knock, knock."
--W. Shakespeare, Macbeth
Nitpicker: "Dislike"
Comment: Syntax. Incomplete sentence
Hi Susan, and everyone else of course,
I took your comment of a couple of days ago about too many dislikes to heart. But then I found myself just blocked, disliking myself for apparently only seeing dislikes. I had to come to terms with the fact that, at least currently, in this phase of my life, mood, or whatever it really is, that I must be ruled more by dislikes than likes, and I decided I should just freely express my dislikes [no matter what you or others felt about that - sorry ]
It's just one of those nasty human traits to focus on the negative... (as was yours, of course), I thought.
When I "gave in" to expressing my dislikes, they, or I, lightened up. As if I got them out of my system, they were not so heavy and mean anymore. They became just my little comments (or quibbles), which is what they really are, anyway. And that helped me take other people's comments on my own entry lighter too.
And after that I discovered that this actually made room for some spontaneous likes, also without too much worry and evaluation on how important or consequential that really is.
I think, all in all, that it is good to create guidelines for peer reviewing. Maybe they already exist somewhere, I didn't see them. It would be good to post them on the rating page. And they should make clear to what extent we are "proofing" and how much we are "peer reviewing" and providing "constructive feedback."
I agree of course that it would be good to focus on constructive feedback. I wonder if one larger entry field would serve that purpose, a field that allows for some general comments, highlighted with examples maybe. But the quibbles, really, are just as good.
Of course: the way the "system" is set up, as a contest with star ratings and + and - , this in a sense sets the stage for dislikes to dominate. Somehow....
It is paradoxical to lighten up about the quibbles.
And your post is very funny.
[Edited at 2009-09-25 18:17 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-09-26 00:50 GMT]
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| So what happens if not enough entries have been ruled out? | Sep 26, 2009 |
For the Ru-En pair only 1 of 13 has been ruled out. If the number remains the same, what happens?
| | | | | Good idea, Samuel! | Sep 27, 2009 |
Samuel Murray wrote: patyjs wrote:
Still, I would welcome the opportunity to discuss the particular challenges of the texts although there's nothing to stop us doing so after the event. I would not participate in a discussion *after* the contest simply because the novelty by that time is gone. I suspect some people feel the same. A discussion before the contest may draw more interest because it concerns an upcoming event.
I like the idea. How about allowing discussion during the rating (qual round) and voting (finals) periods? This would keep it as a challenge for contestants, but help to enable raters and voters can be well-informed.
We could do it as an experiment in a future contest. and then decide whether to discard it, keep it or only do it sometimes.
| | | | | The top 3-7 advance | Sep 27, 2009 |
Mark Berelekhis wrote:
For the Ru-En pair only 1 of 13 has been ruled out. If the number remains the same, what happens?
The top 3 to 7 advance, in any case.
| | | | | I like your ideas, Samuel and Henry | Sep 27, 2009 |
Henry D wrote: Samuel Murray wrote: patyjs wrote:
Still, I would welcome the opportunity to discuss the particular challenges of the texts although there's nothing to stop us doing so after the event. I would not participate in a discussion *after* the contest simply because the novelty by that time is gone. I suspect some people feel the same. A discussion before the contest may draw more interest because it concerns an upcoming event. I like the idea. How about allowing discussion during the rating (qual round) and voting (finals) periods? This would keep it as a challenge for contestants, but help to enable raters and voters can be well-informed. We could do it as an experiment in a future contest. and then decide whether to discard it, keep it or only do it sometimes.
By all means, no discussion during the translation phase. But yes, during the rating and voting, it would be useful, because now I see that some contestants did not "grasp" the meaning quite well, and the like/dislike tags cannot provide us with enough space to discuss on the text and bring our arguments. A forum topic - one for each sub-community - would be more useful to that effect, and more visible, of course. However, I'm thinking that participation in such a forum could disclose the identity of the contestants - one could easily guess that someone who is in favour of a certain interpretation of the text has translated it accordingly, find the respective translation and ascertain that "X is the author of that translation"...
Even if what you have suggested is discussing the challenges of the source text, I think one cannot discuss the source text without touching on possible interpretations/translations... Please bear this in mind
[Edited at 2009-09-27 13:00 GMT]
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| Turn the dislike/like tag area into a discussion place | Sep 27, 2009 |
Henry D wrote: Samuel Murray wrote: patyjs wrote:
Still, I would welcome the opportunity to discuss the particular challenges of the texts although there's nothing to stop us doing so after the event. I would not participate in a discussion *after* the contest simply because the novelty by that time is gone. I suspect some people feel the same. A discussion before the contest may draw more interest because it concerns an upcoming event. I like the idea. How about allowing discussion during the rating (qual round) and voting (finals) periods? This would keep it as a challenge for contestants, but help to enable raters and voters can be well-informed. We could do it as an experiment in a future contest. and then decide whether to discard it, keep it or only do it sometimes.
Like/dislike area is not enough to discuss or reflect the positive/negative expressions about the entries.
You would better turn it into a discussion place and also keep the tagging option available in the discussions (like quote option in the forums but when you come on to it then it will show the tagged area on the text)
Also I have another suggestion:
Use random sentence or paragraph option in any place in the site.
For example a user who visits any place in the site will see a sentence or paragraph of an entry in his pair which will be flashed during their presence in the site (for example each 15 minutes) Like a small window in calendar editing (in calendar when you drag a lot of days a small window automatically opens and you select mostly available etc, I am talking about such window)
And in this window he/she will vote/rate the selected part of the entry.
Or you may offer a participant to select his/her spot paragraph during writing his/her entry. And this spot part will be showed to those who will visit other places in the site.
In fact, dividing an entry into the paragraphs or sentences won't change anything because the user already votes for several good sentences in the entries.
Another suggestion for such voting system:
You may allow participants to show their best paragraphs or sentences in this random flashing option.
For example: allow participants to show the best parts of his/her entry during contest. Today participant can show first paragraph but tomorrow he/she can change it to the last one.
I think such implementation will eliminate the risk to vote for the one whom do you know. And will make the contest much more broader and hotter.
Shortly my suggestions:
1- Put a discussion area near/under the entries with the option of quoting specific word/sentence in the entry.
2- Put a random voting system in all site in which the spotted part of the entry will be opened in anywhere in the site together with original language. (details are above)
Best Regards,
M. Ali
[Edited at 2009-09-27 14:43 GMT]
| | | | Ledja
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:13
English to Albanian
+ ...
| A couple of suggestions | Sep 29, 2009 |
A lot has been said on the lack of "like" tags, but I have still not spotted the slightest change in the attitudes of those participating in the process - at least this stands true at the moment in my language pair. Can such an "urge" be implemented where those who are tagging are invited to pick, say, two phrases they like from each entry, or state that an entry is rubbish head to toe - not necessarily in that exact phrasing - o... See more A lot has been said on the lack of "like" tags, but I have still not spotted the slightest change in the attitudes of those participating in the process - at least this stands true at the moment in my language pair. Can such an "urge" be implemented where those who are tagging are invited to pick, say, two phrases they like from each entry, or state that an entry is rubbish head to toe - not necessarily in that exact phrasing - otherwise their "dislike" tags won't become visible. It so happens that in a previous translation contest it was as plain as the nose in my face that someone knew the translator and went out of their way to tag the entire text with "likes" and disagree with every "dislike" placed on it. I guess I'll have to wait till the end of this one to make a conclusion on such a recurrence.
I was also wondering if it would be a good idea to add "suggestion" to the list of dislikes, as sometimes the comment shows that simply a suggestion for a different word is taking place, when actually the comment appears under "mistranslation". Of course, this wouldn't even begin to take care of the nitpickers. I had a laugh reading some postings here nitpick-analysing Shakespear's works and feel that some ridiculously mouth-dropping comments of that same nature are actually happening with the tagging. Say I was to translate a line from Toni Morrison: "a forest sprang between them". According to some, a real translation would be to state: "they grew apart", because that's what the author really meant - forget the powerful imagery and unique style... Does that kill an author's superb writing or what! Shocking!
And one last thing: don't know if this is a bug in the system, but I can see at the top of one table that there are 6 like tags in an entry, and that a user has agreed 5 times, but the agreements don't actually appear under the picked words/phrases. I also can't see the disagreements in another entry's "likes", although a few are stated to have been entered. Would this be what everybody sees or just me in my log-in?
[Edited at 2009-09-29 21:57 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-09-29 23:01 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | changing vote | Sep 30, 2009 |
I mistakenly chose an entry for 2nd place (English entry), but I cannot clear my vote. Can you help?
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