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Please remove this unwanted "feature" (TM-Town export)
Thread poster: Tom in London
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 02:12
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
You don't need to consent to get what you paid for Aug 6, 2015

Tom in London wrote:
I think the general principle in EU law is that personal data must not be used for unauthorised purposes without *prior* consent.


That may be so, but I don't think that listing publically available portions of your profile information in a directory search is "unauthorised purposes", nor is providing facilities to perform such searches.

When you buy ProZ.com membership, you are buying a package of services, which includes displaying your information on a profile page and making it available in directory searches. This is specifically what you paid for. I would not be opposed to the ability to opt out of directory search results, but at present, that is a non-optional part of the service that is "Proz.com membership".

You'd have to be informed, upon becoming a new member of Proz ... that your personal information might be provided to third parties or used by them, with the option of ticking an "agree" or "disagree" box.


Yes, and by registering an account at ProZ.com (and/or paying for membership) you are not only agreeing to that but actually requesting it.



[Edited at 2015-08-06 18:08 GMT]


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:12
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Non-agreement Aug 6, 2015

Samuel Murray wrote:

You'd have to be informed, upon becoming a new member of Proz ... that your personal information might be provided to third parties or used by them, with the option of ticking an "agree" or "disagree" box.


Yes, and by registering an account at ProZ.com (and/or paying for membership) you are not only agreeing to that but actually requesting it.



[Edited at 2015-08-06 18:08 GMT]


We seem to be at sixes and sevens here. I certainly did not consent for third parties to insert commercial "options" into my private profile page, of which I was unaware and only found out by chance, and then have to go looking for a way to make sure they were not using my personal information in a way to which I had not given my prior approval.

That remains my understanding of the situation. But I see no point in arguing over it; it's a legal matter that neither I nor (with respect) you, Samuel, can clarify.

I've signed out of this thread for now, since it risks meandering into a "he said she said" discussion. The (international) legal aspects are something to which only Proz can reply.

[Edited at 2015-08-06 19:06 GMT]


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 21:12
SITE FOUNDER
Thanks, all (and clarifications) Aug 7, 2015

Thanks for this feedback. I am copying most of a post I just made on this topic in the CPN forum. (With a few additions specific to this thread.)

Hi all,

I understand the sentiments in this thread and we have outlined internally some improvements based on feedback in other threads. I'll post on that later. For now I want to clarify two things.

First, private information does not get passed via the API. Just public info. What TM-Town was doing is kind of what Google does. They read the public parts of your profile, and pass along to visitors a link to your profile, depending on their searches.

The anticipated outcome of your profile being listed at TM-Town is that potential new clients (hopefully good ones) would visit your profile and (hopefully) contact you.

By the way, this is how the web has worked for as long as ProZ.com has been around. (We all know Google, of course, but hundreds of search engines have crawled the public portions of your profiles over the years -- it is just how the web works. And, Tom, there has for a while been an option to opt out of allowing Google to search your profile. Most people choose not to use it.)

Nowadays, instead of the crawler having to find out what is what by itself, you can make it clearer. This allows applications to "talk" to each other. That's part of what APIs are for, and it is how the web works today.

Second, this feature was released -- in its first form over ten years ago -- as a way to drive additional client traffic to your profile. What this feature is, is ProZ.com delivering on its mission of providing tools and opportunities for members to grow their businesses and do better work. We have nothing else to gain in this.

I suspect that there are some specific issues with TM-Town, and possible associations to be avoided, (and issues with "republication", as Samuel helpfully distinguishes), that have given rise to this forum reaction. I understand this... it is why there is an opt-out, and why there will be a site-specific opt-out.

But I hope you will understand that those issues are not part and parcel of the use of an API per se.

By the way, Kevin from TM-Town has just informed me of his intention to discontinue displaying ProZ.com members in his directory. I find this a little bit unfortunate, from the point of view of the interests of our general membership -- given that many of our members are quite happy to have us taking steps to drive more traffic to their profiles, while leaving in their hands the power to do with that traffic as they choose. It is just part of what we do.

The changes we will make look like largely like the changes Samuel proposed. (We were on the same page, I guess.)

I'll post here when the changes are ready. Thanks for using ProZ.com, and for investing in membership. We're doing our best for you! And we are always ready to make adjustments and improvements based on your feedback.


 
Kardas Tradu
Kardas Tradu  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 02:12
Member (2011)
Italian to Polish
+ ...
We fully agree with Tom! Jan 5, 2016

Tom in London wrote:

Michael Beijer wrote:

Profile visitors won’t see it at all.


I don't think that's correct. It shows up in the "Visitor view".

I believe I ought to have the option of deciding what appears/doesn't appear in my profile.




We fully agree with Tom! As Proz.com members we should have the option of deciding what appears/doesn't appear in our profile. It's not fair. We don't want to see "TM town label" in our profile and we have no intention to use it in the future!


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:12
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
And while we're on the subject.... Jan 5, 2016

Kardas Tradu wrote:

Tom in London wrote:

Michael Beijer wrote:

Profile visitors won’t see it at all.


I don't think that's correct. It shows up in the "Visitor view".

I believe I ought to have the option of deciding what appears/doesn't appear in my profile.




We fully agree with Tom! As Proz.com members we should have the option of deciding what appears/doesn't appear in our profile. It's not fair. We don't want to see "TM town label" in our profile and we have no intention to use it in the future!


And while we're on the subject....I would greatly appreciate it if the promoter of the TM town thing could be persuaded not to more or less continually extol its virtues using the discussion forums.


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 21:12
SITE FOUNDER
Circling back Feb 10, 2016

Hi folks,

Just to circle back on this topic, it is now possible to remove the TM-Town export option from your profile. (So that even you do not see it.)

Henry


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:12
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks.... Feb 10, 2016

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Hi folks,

Just to circle back on this topic, it is now possible to remove the TM-Town export option from your profile. (So that even you do not see it.)

Henry


Many thanks to Henry! All fixed !


 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 01:12
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
And what about those who see it for the first time? Feb 10, 2016

Sheila Wilson wrote:
The main concern I have though, in relation to the title of this particular thread, is that the incitement to share TMs is being made and looks like continuing to be made. Opting out may be fine for us who wouldn't use it anyway (but then, what's the point?). What good will it do those who didn't understand what it was all about and thought they ought to go along with it as ProZ.com were endorsing it?

The above is taken from an earlier post I made in this thread.

I'm glad the option is now there to remove this feature from our own profiles. However, I'm still worried about the effect this feature will be having on new translators. There doesn't seem to be anything in the Q&A relating to whether or not it would be a good idea for them to follow the advice given to export them. Nothing is said about confidentiality or what happens to those samples over on TM-Town. There isn't even a link to the site! It's just a "DO IT!" recommendation.

I think that's unethical. It's taking advantage of the fact that the user has just paid for membership and now understandably wants to get the best ROI.


 
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