Only members can post in this forum | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Encouraged fields Thread poster: Gerard de Noord
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Giles Watson 
Italy
Local time: 02:24
Italian to English
In memoriam | Verification has to be independent in order to be credible | Dec 28, 2007 |
Lawyer-Linguist wrote:
Come on guys, unless there is a way of verifying the information that we are now being effectively forced to provide, all you are doing is encouraging even more fraudulent and deceptive site content because seasoned professionals are not going to allow themselves to be dictated to in this fashion.
You're absolutely right and in order to be credible, verification has to be seen to be independent.
One way of verifying information is by giving other professionals and outsourcers the opportunity to corroborate it. This, I imagine, is what WWA and the Project profiles, with their opportunities for relatively unmediated evaluation, hope to do. It's possible to manipulate these comments but it would require more effort than most fraudulent posters are able or willing to bring to bear. I'm sure the system, which is still a work in progress, will be tweaked further to cater for objections.
That said, nobody - and I'm including myself here - likes to be judged in public, although it's nice when the judgement is favourable.
Similarly, anyone can post a sample translation and claim it as their own. There are a number of those already posted and yet those are the individuals who will get called on first?
I totally agree that a source and target text on their own invite suspicions of this nature so I posted a couple of sample translations with links to the web sites where they are published. Naturally, I obtained permission from my customers to do so.
Cheers,
Giles
| | | | Dinny
Greece
Local time: 03:24
Italian to Danish
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| I do not want my C.V. to be found and displayed by Google! | Dec 28, 2007 |
I once uploaded my C.V. on ProZ.com - it contained all my personal contact information and whatever I have been doing professionally during the last 30 years. Some time later I discovered that searching in Google for any odd term which by coincidence would also be contained in my C.V. all my personal information would just pop up among the suggested sites.
Naturally, I immediately cancelled my C.V. from ProZ.com and I do NOT want it to be part of my profile. So this "encouraged fie... See more I once uploaded my C.V. on ProZ.com - it contained all my personal contact information and whatever I have been doing professionally during the last 30 years. Some time later I discovered that searching in Google for any odd term which by coincidence would also be contained in my C.V. all my personal information would just pop up among the suggested sites.
Naturally, I immediately cancelled my C.V. from ProZ.com and I do NOT want it to be part of my profile. So this "encouraged field" will remain empty - meaning that I will be filtered out?
Sorry, but if I am filtered out because I do not want every irrelevant person in the whole world to know my home telephone number and other personal information, I see no reason why I should continue my membership.
At this point I strongly encourage a ProZ.com staff member or even Henry himself to appear with an answer! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Defective message | Dec 28, 2007 |
ICL wrote: 
Thanks for spotting this defective message, it has been corrected, it now reads " "You are missing at least one encouraged profile field. Click here to update your profile."
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | | Options and choices | Dec 28, 2007 |
Dear all,
ProZ,com is a venue, with tools for you to use (or not use) in the way that best suits you and your business. You decide what fields should be completed and the corresponding content.
On the other hand, The person with the need sets the parameters. Whether it be KudoZ, the forums or the jobs system, the person who has the need is given options for setting parameters and directing the flow of an exchange. For example, outsourcers using the directories to search... See more Dear all,
ProZ,com is a venue, with tools for you to use (or not use) in the way that best suits you and your business. You decide what fields should be completed and the corresponding content.
On the other hand, The person with the need sets the parameters. Whether it be KudoZ, the forums or the jobs system, the person who has the need is given options for setting parameters and directing the flow of an exchange. For example, outsourcers using the directories to search for service providers are given the option of defining the parameters or sets of parameters to be used in the search. The feeling is that this approach, which may be the one most likely to ensure that needs are met, is appropriate for our collaborative community and service industry.
During 2008 the profiles will be revised to make them more user friendly and customizable, and to provide additional tools and opportunities to their owners and to the community.
Regards,
Enrique ▲ Collapse
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| You can decline to upload your CV | Dec 28, 2007 |
Dinny wrote:
Naturally, I immediately cancelled my C.V. from ProZ.com and I do NOT want it to be part of my profile. So this "encouraged field" will remain empty - meaning that I will be filtered out?
Hi Dinny,
You can go to your profile updater and select the option "Decline to upload your CV". You can even post in your profile a default message "CV will be submitted upon request" or any other message that better suits your needs.
If you do so, the corresponding field in your profile updater will show green.
Regards,
Enrique
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ICL wrote:
On the contrary, I think it is high time Proz.com deletes empty profiles that do not have at least the required fields. It certainly does not feel fair that some of us have here so much professional and even personal information about ourselves while other profiles are just like empty "ghosts".
I disagree on this point. As stated above, profile owners are the ones who decide what fields should be completed (and the corresponding content) in their profiles.
Of course a member who does not include key fields like "services" and "fields of expertise" will be excluded from most job searches, as most queries are likely to include these data, but this is the profile owner's choice.
So instead of deleting and imposing criteria on any party, profile owners are free to select what information they complete, and those with a need are free to select the corresponding search parameters.
The same happens for instance with "off topic" (but within scope) content in forums. You may post it (labeled as off topic) and other may select not to see this off-topic content. This provides freedom to both those who enjoy off topic and those who don't.
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | | Why isn't opting out possible with other encouraged fields? | Dec 28, 2007 |
Enrique wrote:
You can go to your profile updater and select the option "Decline to upload your CV".
Hi Enrique,
I appreciate this option and decided to use it as soon as I became aware of it. However, I really don't understand why opting out isn't possible with other encouraged fields, especially with WWA.
Apparently ProZ.com thinks that it is perfectly understandable if I don't want to share my personal details with the entire world by publishing a CV. At the same time I will be punished and not appear in a filtered search if I decide not to have WWA in my profile because I consider my clients' names to be confidential information which I don't want to publish on the Internet (and which most of my clients even protect through non-disclosure agreements).
Does this mean it's perfectly ok if I want to keep my own data confidential but it's not ok if I want to keep someone else's data confidential?
Am I the only one who thinks this is weird?
I'd really appreciate if you could clarify on this.
Regards,
Claudia
| | | | | What suits me and my business | Dec 28, 2007 |
Enrique wrote:
Dear all,
ProZ,com is a venue, with tools for you to use (or not use) in the way that best suits you and your business. Regards,
Enrique
This is exactly my approach to my Proz membership. I hope that when this new "rule" goes into effect, members like me who disagree strongly with it will be allowed a refund on the remaining months of their paid memberships. I do not want to use the WWA, project history ot translation sample sections of my profile, because THAT is what suits me and my business.
Frankly, last year when the WWA "can of worms" was born, at the end of lengthy discussion I was reassured that I could "opt out", and that I would still be able to display my profile as I saw fit. I also understood that my standing in the freelancer search would not be affected, so I renewed my membership, but obviously this was only temporary.
Please keep me informed. If my choices about how I design my profile mean that I won't appear in outsourcer searches as I have until now, I would like a refund.
Jennifer
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Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 02:24
Member
Catalan to English
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As this thread seems to be attracting quite a bit of attention, I was just wondering why it does not appear on the Home Page. (?)
Andy
| | | | | Proz.com = mere Yellow Pages of translators? | Dec 28, 2007 |
Hola Enrique,
Enrique wrote:
So instead of deleting and imposing criteria on any party, profile owners are free to select what information they complete, and those with a need are free to select the corresponding search parameters.
Impose? Don't you really think that the quality of this site as an "authoritative" translator database (as Gerard already commented) would actually be enhanced by not allowing "ghost" profiles?
Still, I can respect this criterion (just like I respect others that I don't agree with) and it is then obviously up to each of us to decide if this system suits us and if it is worth paying for, just like we can choose to pay for an advertisement in the Yellow Pages.
It has been suggested before here in these forums that Proz.com is basically the equivalent of the "Yellow Pages" for translators, so I guess now Proz.com wants to apply similar criteria for service provider (translator) search results, like in the Yellow Pages: some fields are mandatory, but others are left to the more "advanced search" (filtering) features.
I guess we all need to weigh the pros and cons our membership actually offers us. In short: Is Proz.com membership actually offering more than what you get for paying for an ad in the Yellow Pages?
Saludos,
Ivette
[Edited at 2007-12-28 16:52]
| | | | Margreet Logmans (X)
Netherlands
Local time: 02:24
English to Dutch
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| It does appear in my listings on the homepage. | Dec 28, 2007 |
Andy Watkinson wrote:
As this thread seems to be attracting quite a bit of attention, I was just wondering why it does not appear on the Home Page. (?)
Andy
It does appear in my listings on the homepage.
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Giles Watson wrote:
You're absolutely right and in order to be credible, verification has to be seen to be independent.
One way of verifying information is by giving other professionals and outsourcers the opportunity to corroborate it. This, I imagine, is what WWA and the Project profiles, with their opportunities for relatively unmediated evaluation, hope to do.
Hi Giles,
I'm sure the WWA system was conceived with the best possible intentions but it has also opened a can of worms that has been discussed previously, and which I won't rehash here as it's not strictly on topic.
Suffice it to say, that it is controversial for a number of reasons, and for that reason alone, we shouldn't feel "bullied" into using it because of this latest selection criteria initiative. Encouraged (in context) means "optional, but recommended" and that is what is should remain. If this selection criterion is introduced, there is no longer a distinction between required and encouraged.
And whilst I can give a thumbs up to the way you have supplied sample translations (and to the translations themselves, after viewing them ), you've done so as a seasoned professional. My whole argument was directed at those newbies/wannabees that will do or say anything to get their profiles complete and that is what this initiative will encourage - more fraudulent/deceptive site content on a site that already has countless examples.
[Edited at 2007-12-28 17:56]
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Alena ZAYETS
France
Local time: 02:24
French to Russian
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| We can choose forums to be listed | Dec 28, 2007 |
Andy Watkinson wrote:
As this thread seems to be attracting quite a bit of attention, I was just wondering why it does not appear on the Home Page. (?)
Hello Andy!
You can select forums to be listed on the homepage. If you want to see this thread there, go to "Customize Listed Forums" at the bottom of Forums section and tick off Proz.com Membership in Site Features list. Or go to "settings" in your profile and you will find this new option among "other settings".
Regards,
Alena
[Edited at 2007-12-28 18:29]
| | | | | The decision to require certain types of information is left to members | Dec 28, 2007 |
Thanks for raising these issues. To be clear, what will be made available to members is a means of limiting directory searches to candidates that have made available the information that they choose to require.
One feature of this sort is already in place: in Connect, for example, it is possible to search for translators who have indicated that they are available today. Naturally, those who have not entered availability do not come up in the results. (We gave "fair warning" of this ... See more Thanks for raising these issues. To be clear, what will be made available to members is a means of limiting directory searches to candidates that have made available the information that they choose to require.
One feature of this sort is already in place: in Connect, for example, it is possible to search for translators who have indicated that they are available today. Naturally, those who have not entered availability do not come up in the results. (We gave "fair warning" of this with a posting in the forums.)
The fact that capabilities such as this are made available should not be construed as an expression of the opinions or preferences of ProZ.com staff members. What we are doing--what we always do--is enable free choice on both sides, usually with improved efficiencies.
Frankly, not that anyone is saying it, but we would not be receptive to a demand that an element of the community be deprived of the opportunity to run their businesses in the way they see fit. As Enrique has pointed out, this is why we don't delete profiles with sparse information, and also why we do find it appropriate to give searchers that wish to require sample translations, for example, a way to zero in on candidates who have provided them.
One should not conclude from this example that ProZ.com as a company endorses the idea of requiring sample translations. It is only the knowledge that there are some searchers who require sample translations (for example) that would prompt us to 'encourage' their provision. I hope this distinction is understood.
As for WWA, for those who have opted out, it would make sense for the profile updater page to be presented accordingly. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | As usual, everyone is entitled to a refund at any time for any reason | Dec 28, 2007 |
Jennifer Baker wrote:
... I hope that when this new "rule" goes into effect, members like me who disagree strongly with it will be allowed a refund on the remaining months of their paid memberships.
Our refund policy allows anyone to get a prorated refund at any time for any reason. The way to do this is to enter a support ticket with payment instructions. That said, there is no new "rule", and furthermore, I doubt that the existence of new search parameter(s) will affect you in any way.
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