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I don't want to be part of such a site (ad for file conversion and MT services for translators)
Thread poster: Siegfried Armbruster

Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:03
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
Edited Oct 21, 2012

Ty is awake now.

[Edited at 2012-10-21 11:43 GMT]


 

Ty Kendall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:03
Hebrew to English
I know Nicole! Oct 21, 2012

Already remedied! ...the post, and the coffee! (well, tea!)

 

Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:03
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
OK, I'll edit my post. Oct 21, 2012

Ty Kendall wrote:

Already remedied! ...the post, and the coffee! (well, tea!)



Now that you are actually awake.


 

neilmac  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:03
Spanish to English
+ ...
Below the belt? Oct 21, 2012

Georgia Morgan wrote:

now what kind of English is that?


The poster may be a native speaker of German. I personally think it's a bit of a cheap shot to attack his use of the lingua franca in what is after all a VERY valid post. It'd be like me having a go at Georgia for not starting her sentence with a capital letter...

Perhaps the post was meant to be ironic?


 

Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:03
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
One more: Stop the upselling and rather develop some structure, ProZ.com Oct 21, 2012

Textklick wrote:

The kind of people who want to buy quality solutions and services at knockdown prices are still going to prefer to shop where the quality guys go.


This site has grown too large to be a one-size-fits-all provider. It is time to create niches.

but the danger of ProZ completely losing credibility as a serious and professional business portal.

No patent solution. Just an alarm bell.


That's why.


 

Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:03
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Dog bites man Oct 21, 2012

Nicole Schnell wrote:

My suggestion:
A dedicated BudgetZ (or "ThriftieZ", "BargainZ", CheapskateZ" "Nobody readZ it anyway") section here on ProZ.com where interested and potential customers can look for cheapo-machine translation, and where vendors can offer their wonderful machine-based concoctions. On this terrific playground all kinds of companies can exchange 0.0001/word "jobs" and advertise their services as shown in the above sample and ProZ.com will not lose any revenue.

A unambiguous headline and disclaimer will clearly distinguish these kinds of services from professional translation and new and strict ruleZ at ProZ.com will automatically filter all requests for ridiculous rates into this section and to all "translators" who voluntarily have registered with this section.


Good idea. I've made the same suggestion myself at least once before. The problem is not the posting of cut-rate translation services per se, but rather the overwhelming prevalence of this category of offers, accompanied by no effort to distinguish them from those offering at least minimally decent rates.

I imagine that the site has two reasons to refrain from such differentiation: 1.) not wanting to highlight the fact that such a high proportion of the offers are ridicuclous; 2.) not wanting outsourcers posting such offers to feel uncomfortable using this portal and purchasing site memberships.

Based on what I've seen, posting via the "Connect" platform is available to any corporate member of the site, irrespective of the rate offered. So it does not function as a way of distinguishing decent from indecent proposals. Given that it does not do this, I don't understand its purpose.

So we are talking in the end about the subject of so many previous threads over the past several years: that this site has chosen to enable a great deal of traffic at the low end of the translation market while not making active efforts to "connect" decent-paying outsourcers with qualified translators who demand decent rates. Not much has changed in this regard, and the prospects for remedying this situation don't--ahem!--appear to be very promising....


 

Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:03
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
parallel failure Oct 21, 2012

Robert Forstag wrote:

Based on what I've seen, posting via the "Connect" platform is available to any corporate member of the site, irrespective of the rate offered. So it does not function as a way of distinguishing decent from indecent proposals. Given that it does not do this, I don't understand its purpose.


Hi Robert,

Reading this immediately called to mind the parallel failure of the ProZ.com Certified PRO Network to distinguish decent from indecent translators, so to speak. I'm afraid they are both little more than empty labels.

Michael


 

Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:03
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
A "diploma" in proper English would be a small step in the right direction Oct 21, 2012

Michael Beijer wrote:

Hi Robert,

Reading this immediately called to mind the parallel failure of the ProZ.com Certified PRO Network to distinguish decent from indecent translators, so to speak. I'm afraid they are both little more than empty labels.

Michael


I agree. The "P" ends up being fairly devoid of content when it certifies nothing more than the translator's "adequacy."

Yet it would seem reasonable to expect that the "diploma" issued to those with said designation at least reflect correct English usage. Here is how the certificate posted on one member's site reads:


"XXX was admitted into the Proz.com Certified Network as a

Translator

working in the language pair

XX to XX

for confirming adequately a professional level of translation ability, business reliability and good online citizenship"


 

Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:03
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
As long as no staff member happened to go back to university Oct 21, 2012

...to gain a little improvement regarding basic economics and marketing, NOTHING will change.

Robert Forstag wrote:
I imagine that the site has two reasons to refrain from such differentiation: 1.) not wanting to highlight the fact that such a high proportion of the offers are ridicuclous; 2.) not wanting outsourcers posting such offers to feel uncomfortable using this portal and purchasing site memberships.


Technically, there is nothing wrong with this particular market segment, and there is nothing to be ashamed of. There are more men who use cheap, disposable plastic razors for shaving than men who insist on a Schick Quattro-Something Super-Double-Safety-Titanium. However, no retail store will ever place those two differently priced items on the same shelf level.

So we are talking in the end about the subject of so many previous threads over the past several years: that this site has chosen to enable a great deal of traffic at the low end of the translation market while not making active efforts to "connect" decent-paying outsourcers with qualified translators who demand decent rates.


To stick with retail: Quite a few big-box retailers made the same mistake - trying to be awfully attractive to the lower bench folk. For lots and lots of cool traffic. Realized too late that their mid-price shoppers started to stay away and that no ten horses would get anyone looking for high-end products back into the store. Ever.


 

Jared Tabor
Local time: 17:03
SITE STAFF
Will check it out Oct 22, 2012

Hi all,

I haven't seen the ad referred to here, but I will check it out and post back. Thanks.

Jared


 

Jared Tabor
Local time: 17:03
SITE STAFF
Ad for file conversion and some MT options for translators Oct 22, 2012

Siegfried Armbruster wrote:

I don't want to be part of a site that puts the ads or links to ads such as the following on its homepage:

...... has been created to make your translation work easy. All you need to do now is just translation, leave the rest to us. We provide fully formatted and machine translated file for any language pair that would save your time and you can complete your project with much less effort. We can format and machine translate any file format like doc, pdf (scanned too), excel and ppt. We also provide conversion service for scanned pdf files and format the file after conversion. All this is provided at a very low cost. Pay much less and increase your translation speed up to almost 40%. Please see our latest work to get a broader idea.


This add/link to this add shows up on the upper right corner of the homepage together with adds from other companies. You will notice, when you see it.

This is not even correct English, what kind of image does Proz transport to the public by accepting this kind of adds

I don't want to be part of this and I don't want Proz to show the world such an image.

[Edited at 2012-10-20 18:25 GMT]


The ad in question is one which advertises .pdf file conversion services and some MT options to translators. The text you quote, Siegfried, appears to be from the company's website, which is http://imaginativesolutions.in/ . Though the ad is in what you might call "low circulation" (being shown much less frequently than other ads, in the five days it has been in circulation, it has been clicked on 700% more than the average ad, which may be an indicator of a certain level of interest among translators for this kind of service.

Can you help me better understand why this ad is something you do not want to see, or that others using the site should not see? Thanks.

Jared


 

Siegfried Armbruster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:03
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
In memoriam
Why I don't like it. Oct 22, 2012

Hi Jared,
I have no problem with any company offering any translation related service, be it PDF conversion or MT. In contrast to many others on Proz I have no problem with MT and don't see it as a threat.

...... has been created to make your translation work easy. All you need to do now is just translation, leave the rest to us. We provide fully formatted and machine translated file for any language pair that would save your time and you can complete your project with much less effort. We can format and machine translate any file format like doc, pdf (scanned too), excel and ppt. We also provide conversion service for scanned pdf files and format the file after conversion. All this is provided at a very low cost. . Pay much less and increase your translation speed up to almost 40%. Please see our latest work to get a broader idea.


I am a native German speaker, and my English is not good enough to translate into English, this is obvious. But I would expect that marketing material or content of a website of a company that offers its services in English is more or less near perfect.
The combination of the poor English (in the ad and on their website), together with "very low cost" gives me the impression of "low cost = low quality". This is why I actually clicked on the ad to check what is behind it. After looking at their website, I was shocked, the message it sends is "we good, we cheap, give money, get crap".

This is not the message Proz wants to send, this is not the message I want Proz to support.

Does this explain my reaction on this add.


 

Siegfried Armbruster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:03
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
In memoriam
I really hope it is a pay per click scheme Oct 22, 2012

Jared wrote:
Though the ad is in what you might call "low circulation" (being shown much less frequently than other ads, in the five days it has been in circulation, it has been clicked on 700% more than the average ad, which may be an indicator of a certain level of interest among translators for this kind of service.


Is it possible that the high click rate has something to do with my forum posts and the various blog posts that are available on the net and the discussions going on in closed Facebook circles and so on?

I just hope that they have to pay per click and I hope that they will get a extremly high number of clicks.


 

Jared Tabor
Local time: 17:03
SITE STAFF
Thanks Siegfried Oct 22, 2012

Thanks Siegfried. I'm adding the ad here (it is a three-panel ad) so that it's clear which ad is being discussed.



I agree that the content of ads should be carefully reviewed. I'm afraid that the quality of the English (or other language) on an advertiser's website is generally going to be more the responsibility o
... See more
Thanks Siegfried. I'm adding the ad here (it is a three-panel ad) so that it's clear which ad is being discussed.



I agree that the content of ads should be carefully reviewed. I'm afraid that the quality of the English (or other language) on an advertiser's website is generally going to be more the responsibility of the advertiser, however.

The main purpose of advertising, in all its forms on ProZ.com, is to put translators and other language professionals in contact with products or services which they find useful. Not all products and services are going to be useful to everyone, though attempts are made to "target" advertising as efficiently as possible. In a case like this, where a service has proven at least interesting to a good number, but is found objectionable by some, perhaps there is room for improvement.
Collapse


 

Jared Tabor
Local time: 17:03
SITE STAFF
On the ad's click rate Oct 22, 2012

Siegfried Armbruster wrote:

Is it possible that the high click rate has something to do with my forum posts and the various blog posts that are available on the net and the discussions going on in closed Facebook circles and so on?


No. The ad's high click rate pre-dates this discussion. Discussions held elsewhere may generate more traffic here or on the advertiser's site, depending on what is being linked to.


 
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