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Certain Exchange posts for sharing among Certified PROs
Thread poster: Susan Welsh
Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
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Anthony, you can use the GlossPost for this Sep 10, 2009

Anthony,
If you want to provide a link to a publicly available glossary, you can use Glosspost.
This is a database that was created for that specific purpose:
http://www.proz.com/glosspost

It was the result of discussions on a separate thread and I was trying out an option that Patrick had made available. The idea of posting it was associated with the remark made on thay same thread, which is worth at least a quick scan.

http://www.proz.com/forum/collaboration_tools_and_features/142057-sharing_resources_within_the_network-page4.html#1209296[/quote]

This thread is part of the private P-forum, that means non-P people have no access to it, so there is no point copying the link here, as this is a public forum. (Means people will try to click on it and will be denied access.)

Katalin

 
Susan Welsh
Susan Welsh  Identity Verified
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Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER
How dare you, staff, change the name of my posting topic without telling me! Sep 10, 2009

You have made the topic sound like a mealy-mouthed promotional statement from the Proz staff.

The actual topic was: Proz Exchange Only for People with Red P

Perhaps you didn't like that because you thought it sounded angry. Well, it was angry. Had you asked me, I would have been willing to tone it down perhaps, but I would not have included politically correct BS about "sharing" (among other things).

I said what I meant and I meant what I said.


 
Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
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Susan, with all due respect... Sep 11, 2009

I am surprised by the tone you are using.
Staff and moderators can edit the title of a thread, see the FAQ about this. We all agreed to those conditions when we signed up with ProZ.

As to the current title, IMHO it is better, because:
- Certified PRO is the official name for the "Red P"
- the ProZ Exchange is NOT only for "those", anybody can access it, so stating the contrary would be misleading

As to your "mealy-mouthed promotional statement from the
... See more
I am surprised by the tone you are using.
Staff and moderators can edit the title of a thread, see the FAQ about this. We all agreed to those conditions when we signed up with ProZ.

As to the current title, IMHO it is better, because:
- Certified PRO is the official name for the "Red P"
- the ProZ Exchange is NOT only for "those", anybody can access it, so stating the contrary would be misleading

As to your "mealy-mouthed promotional statement from the Proz staff", I don't get it.
What is promotional about it, for Heaven's sake?
It describes what the thread is about.
The thread discusses that fact that certain posts on the Exchange board are for sharing stuff among Certified ProZ.
That's what it is. Yes, it is "sharing", how do you call otherwise when you offer something of your own for use by others (for free)? Isn't it "sharing"?
And it is among Certified PROs, because Certified PROs share their stuff with other Certified PROs. I am not sure how to say it in any other way then sharing among Certified PROs.

As Jared said, this whole thing is an experiment. I have my own opinion about it, and it probably would have been wise to put a little "Beta" sign there at least, or not to make it visible until the details have been worked out, but none of those issues justify the tone of your posting(s).

Katalin
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Susan Welsh
Susan Welsh  Identity Verified
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To Katalin Sep 11, 2009

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:
- the ProZ Exchange is NOT only for "those", anybody can access it, so stating the contrary would be misleading


If that were true, then "anybody" would be able to access it, which is clearly not the case.


As to your "mealy-mouthed promotional statement from the Proz staff", I don't get it.
What is promotional about it, for Heaven's sake?
It describes what the thread is about.


It is NOT what the thread is about. I started the thread, which is about the EXCLUSION of non-Certified PROs from accessing a standardly advertised spot on the homepage, in hopes of finding useful material for translation work. The new title REDEFINES the topic to be what the staff wishes it to be, but it is not the thread I started, which is on a DIFFERENT SUBJECT.


That's what it is. Yes, it is "sharing", how do you call otherwise when you offer something of your own for use by others (for free)? Isn't it "sharing"?


"Sharing," in colloquial American 2000s speech, has become kindergarten-speak for doing or saying what the teacher or guidance counselor wants you to do or say. "Thank you for sharing that, Johnny." I cringe every time I hear it. It is the opposite of a principled statement of belief. Were the American founders, in writing the Declaration of Independence, "sharing their opinion" with King George that they wished to be an independent nation? They were not.

So, mealy-mouthed.

Susan


 
Teresa Mozo
Teresa Mozo  Identity Verified
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I couldn't agree more Sep 11, 2009

Christina Paiva wrote:

First of all, I'm concerned with principles.

I’ve decided to become a member because I believe in community work, people helping people … Not only at this site, but in real life! Not a slogan!

Learning that translators who wear a red badge are considered to belong to an exclusive club is very upsetting to say the least…


Best regards,
Teresa


 
Jared Tabor
Jared Tabor
Local time: 13:00
SITE STAFF
Good feedback Sep 11, 2009

Hello again,

I agree with those who have expressed that items which are intended for use within the Certified PRO Network should at least be clearly labeled as such, and I'm sorry about the hassle that has come up over this. This section of the exchange is currently visible only to those who can access it.

Susan, to address the complaint regarding the editing of the topic title, as Katalin has indicated, site staff and moderators regularly edit topic titles for purposes
... See more
Hello again,

I agree with those who have expressed that items which are intended for use within the Certified PRO Network should at least be clearly labeled as such, and I'm sorry about the hassle that has come up over this. This section of the exchange is currently visible only to those who can access it.

Susan, to address the complaint regarding the editing of the topic title, as Katalin has indicated, site staff and moderators regularly edit topic titles for purposes of organizing forum threads and allowing those who may be interested in the topic to find it. In this particular case, "Proz Exchange Only for People with Red P" was also misleading, as it sounds as though the Exchange were only for those in the Certified PRO Network, which is not the case (the part which for those in the CPN is a very small portion).

Best regards,

Jared
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Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:00
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
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To Susan, again Sep 11, 2009

Susan Welsh wrote:

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:
- the ProZ Exchange is NOT only for "those", anybody can access it, so stating the contrary would be misleading


If that were true, then "anybody" would be able to access it, which is clearly not the case.


"ProZ Exchange" as you wrote it, refers to the entire Exchange Board.
Your title, as you wrote it, means the entire Exchange was restricted.
That is not the case, because anybody can access the Exchange board itself.
That's why your title was misleading.


It is NOT what the thread is about. I started the thread, which is about the EXCLUSION of non-Certified PROs from accessing a standardly advertised spot on the homepage, in hopes of finding useful material for translation work. The new title REDEFINES the topic to be what the staff wishes it to be, but it is not the thread I started, which is on a DIFFERENT SUBJECT.


Yes, you started the thread because you perceived the situation as an unjustified exclusion.
However, several postings in the thread explained what it was, and as Jared explained, there was a bug, the visibility was not toggled correctly. These sort of things sometimes happen when doing experiments/tests.
This thread will be in the archives for a long time, and therefore I think the change staff made to the title was appropriate. It is not only more accurate, but it is also better for searching purposes.

As to the exclusion thing - would you feel "unjustly excluded" if I told you I have a private team here on ProZ, with a team page, a private forum where we discuss issues related to work, such as terminology, especially if we work on a project together; we "share" glossaries (yes, we do), synchronize TMs, maintain file storage, etc. We do this because we know and trust each other. It is only for us. Not public. Period. Does it bother you to know about this?


That's what it is. Yes, it is "sharing", how do you call otherwise when you offer something of your own for use by others (for free)? Isn't it "sharing"?


"Sharing," in colloquial American 2000s speech, has become kindergarten-speak for doing or saying what the teacher or guidance counselor wants you to do or say. "Thank you for sharing that, Johnny." I cringe every time I hear it. It is the opposite of a principled statement of belief. Were the American founders, in writing the Declaration of Independence, "sharing their opinion" with King George that they wished to be an independent nation? They were not.

So, mealy-mouthed.

Susan


Susan, I know the kindergarten use (overuse) of the word "share", when they are referring to verbal expression.
But it is not used here in that sense, it is used in the genuine meaning of it. Even in kindergarten, they use "share" in the sense of sharing objects: toys, tools - meaning using it together, or letting others use it - or not letting others use it, such as "do not share your drinking cup".
Here, we are talking about materials that were created, compiled, purchased etc. by somebody, he/she owns it, and decides to offer it for others to use. It is in this person's own discretion to whom he/she offers such a resource, isn't it? Sharing does not mean sharing with everybody.

Should anybody be offended if I bring a batch of yummy fresh baked cookies to my next door neighbor, whom we are friends, instead of standing on the corner passing out the cookies to everyone who passes by, or better than that, just leave it on a tray for anybody to take it?

Katalin
(edited because the nested quote tags did not work first)

[Edited at 2009-09-11 15:32 GMT]


 
Jared Tabor
Jared Tabor
Local time: 13:00
SITE STAFF
Tools for teams and networking Sep 11, 2009

Christina and others have brought up an interesting point regarding the Certified PRO Network (CPN).

Work as a community and networking can happen on many scales and on different levels. Some examples are the option to create teams, http://www.proz.com/?sp=team/dir or the still-new "My network" (Katalin provides a good example of how this works). Other networking and team formation may happ
... See more
Christina and others have brought up an interesting point regarding the Certified PRO Network (CPN).

Work as a community and networking can happen on many scales and on different levels. Some examples are the option to create teams, http://www.proz.com/?sp=team/dir or the still-new "My network" (Katalin provides a good example of how this works). Other networking and team formation may happen without making use of these tools, but the site is geared towards providing the tools and opportunities for translators to both connect and distinguish themselves.

It may be worthwhile to think of the CPN in this context, as another opportunity for networking and team-building, another tool that the site is providing to allow language professionals to network, expand their businesses, improve their work and have more fun. The exchange of glossaries is one tool for those in the network to use if they wish to share this material with other screened professionals, much in the way you would share a glossary with someone on your team.

Best regards,

Jared
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Maciek Drobka
Maciek Drobka  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 17:00
Member (2006)
English to Polish
+ ...
Agree with Susan Sep 11, 2009

Susan's original topic title, though not perfect, was much clearer than Katalin's edited version in my opinion. I also think the edited version is misleading, as it takes focus out of Susan's original point.

M


 
Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:00
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
I did not edit anything Sep 11, 2009

Maciek Drobka wrote:

Katalin's edited version


What are you talking about??? I did not edit the title, only staff can do it.
Katalin


 
Jared Tabor
Jared Tabor
Local time: 13:00
SITE STAFF
Title editor here Sep 11, 2009

Hello Maciek,


Jared wrote:

... site staff and moderators regularly edit topic titles for purposes of organizing forum threads and allowing those who may be interested in the topic to find it. In this particular case, "Proz Exchange Only for People with Red P" was also misleading, as it sounds as though the Exchange were only for those in the Certified PRO Network, which is not the case (the part which for those in the CPN is a very small portion).


I edited the title.

Regards,

Jared


 
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