| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | Discontinue the use of 'powwow'. Thread poster: scooke
|
|---|
| I second that! | Dec 15, 2014 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote: Michael Grant wrote:
Personally, I care not one whit either way, but I don't think there is any major reason why it *CAN'T* be changed, and a few good reasons why it *should* be changed...so, why not?
MLG4035 ... don't mend it until it is broken!
True! People use the term with its dictionary meaning and got used to it. I see no reason for a change.
Besides, there are lots of other things that require more attention - and soon.
| | | | Roy OConnor (X)
Local time: 23:17
German to English
When I read the start of this thread, I thought that it was a storm in a teacup. That was until I recalled how I react to the improper use of English – my native language – here in Germany. For example, young people often wear T-shirts bearing the English four-letter F-word. Jaw-dropping surprise is the response to any comment made about how inappropriate it is.
What is interesting is that I've never seen anyone here in Germany wearing a T-shirt with the equivalent German word w... See more When I read the start of this thread, I thought that it was a storm in a teacup. That was until I recalled how I react to the improper use of English – my native language – here in Germany. For example, young people often wear T-shirts bearing the English four-letter F-word. Jaw-dropping surprise is the response to any comment made about how inappropriate it is.
What is interesting is that I've never seen anyone here in Germany wearing a T-shirt with the equivalent German word which is the same except with an "i" instead of the "u".
This perhaps highlights the fact that everyone is sensitive about their own language, but don't bother too much about that of anyone else! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Oliver Walter 
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:17
German to English
+ ...
I think it's about time for another powwow in London. I tried to organise one last July but so few people showed interest that I cancelled it. (Probably not a good month for a powwow.)
Unless somebody else takes the initiative, I'll probably try one in February or late in January.
I wrote the above, both because it is factual and because I now consider that word to be the accepted term for these meetings.
Maybe they should be called 'symposium' which, I think, was originally a ... See more I think it's about time for another powwow in London. I tried to organise one last July but so few people showed interest that I cancelled it. (Probably not a good month for a powwow.)
Unless somebody else takes the initiative, I'll probably try one in February or late in January.
I wrote the above, both because it is factual and because I now consider that word to be the accepted term for these meetings.
Maybe they should be called 'symposium' which, I think, was originally a Greek word for 'drinking party'.
Ha, I've just thought: what about 'symProzium'?
Oliver
[Edited at 2014-12-16 00:07 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 02:47
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
Oliver Walter wrote:
Maybe they should be called 'symposium' which, I think, was originally a Greek word for 'drinking party'.
Ha, I've just thought: what about 'symProzium'?
Though I see nothing wrong with powwow, symProzium is indeed a brainwave. Hope proz.com is taking note.
The only thing against it is it is a bit long and a bit of a tongue-twister. May be if all of us apply our mind to it, we might come up with something shorter and easier on the tongue.
[Edited at 2014-12-16 03:00 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 02:47
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Some hair-splitting for fun! | Dec 16, 2014 |
Tom in London wrote:
"Pow Wow" reminds me of a very silly song for children called "Daddy wouldn't buy me a bow-wow".
One of the problems, at least here in the UK, is the pronunciation of this childish term. David Cameron, the Prime Minister, would pronounce it "Pie Wie". In Glasgow they'd pronounce it "pei wei". In London it would be "pawa". In Durham, "po wo". And so on.
Whereas "Get-Together" (GTG) would cause no problems.
Get-Together reminds me of ghetto gather, and I will have nothing to do with ghettoisation or gathering of ghettos!
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 23:17
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Modern meaning of "symposium" versus ancient | Dec 16, 2014 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote: Oliver Walter wrote:
Maybe they should be called 'symposium' which, I think, was originally a Greek word for 'drinking party'. Ha, I've just thought: what about 'symProzium'? Though I see nothing wrong with powwow, symProzium is indeed a brainwave.
The main problem is that "symposium" has a modern meaning that is not the same as the old meaning (the same applies to "powwow", I think). The pub lunches that ProZ.com's powwows often are can't really be labelled "symposiums".
My opinion on "powwow"? I acknowledge that some people may be offended by using the word "powwow" due to its Native American roots, but I think one should see it as a positive thing: by using a Native American word, ProZ.com's staff winks its American roots. The word "powwow" has another thing to its credit, for since it is not strictly speaking an "English" word, it has a more universal appeal, which fits in nicely with what ProZ.com is aiming for.
| | | | Colin Smith
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:17
French to English
+ ...
| PCGM (poliitical correctness gone mad) | Dec 16, 2014 |
I don't see how the fact that it is a term of North American origin means it could be offensive. To whom?
It's like the notion, increasingly widespread in the UK, especially in local government, that the whole notion of Christmas is "offensive" to Muslims and that it would be "offensive" to give a Muslim a Christmas card or gift. To the extent that the UK Council of Muslims (?) had to issue a statement informing these nincompoops that they have no problem with Christmas, hold Jesus ... See more I don't see how the fact that it is a term of North American origin means it could be offensive. To whom?
It's like the notion, increasingly widespread in the UK, especially in local government, that the whole notion of Christmas is "offensive" to Muslims and that it would be "offensive" to give a Muslim a Christmas card or gift. To the extent that the UK Council of Muslims (?) had to issue a statement informing these nincompoops that they have no problem with Christmas, hold Jesus in high esteem and are not offended by the festivities. They even produced a poster saying "Keep Calm and Celebrate Christmas"
On some forum somewhere I was told off once for using the term "Jews" (in reference to deportations in Pétainist France), and asked whether I would mind using the term "Jewish persons" instead, as "Jew" is considered to be pejorative (since when?)?
As a Scot, I found that highly offensive... I am not Scott"ish" or "Scot-like"! I am a Scot! And proud of it!
[Edited at 2014-12-16 11:37 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-12-16 11:38 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 02:47
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | But they can be called symproziums | Dec 16, 2014 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
The pub lunches that ProZ.com's powwows often are can't really be labelled "symposiums".
Symprozium, a fresh-off-the-mint term, needn't mean what symposium means, now or before, and can have a specific meaning like a pub lunch, or an informal ghetto-gather (to please Tom).
[Edited at 2014-12-16 11:42 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
| So true, Roy | Dec 16, 2014 |
Roy OConnor wrote:
When I read the start of this thread, I thought that it was a storm in a teacup. That was until I recalled how I react to the improper use of English – my native language – here in Germany. For example, young people often wear T-shirts bearing the English four-letter F-word. Jaw-dropping surprise is the response to any comment made about how inappropriate it is.
What is interesting is that I've never seen anyone here in Germany wearing a T-shirt with the equivalent German word which is the same except with an "i" instead of the "u".
This perhaps highlights the fact that everyone is sensitive about their own language, but don't bother too much about that of anyone else!
As another resident of Germany, I have to agree here. I coach schoolchildren in English and actually challenged one of my pupils, who is 15, when he was wearing a t-shirt with the "f" word in English on it. He had worn it at school (there is no dress code) with no problems.
If I explain that the English use the word "Ersatz" but actually give it a rather different meaning, German people are amazed. But that is the way other languages adopt foreign words and terms - they mutate.
| | | | Roy OConnor (X)
Local time: 23:17
German to English
@Sarah,
Perhaps we should get some car stickers made "Finger weg von meiner Sprache!" (Leave my language alone!).
| | | | Colin Smith
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:17
French to English
+ ...
| Worse than that... | Dec 16, 2014 |
Roy OConnor wrote:
For example, young people often wear T-shirts bearing the English four-letter F-word. Jaw-dropping surprise is the response to any comment made about how inappropriate it is.
French comédienne Florence Foresti has a DVD out of her live show in Paris a few years ago called "MotherF***er". She even had it up in lights above the theatre entrance in Paris.
On the back of the DVD she explains her choice of title as follows (as best I remember):
"In English, a "F***er" is someone who wanders around aimlessly. (!)
That describes me too, and I am also a mother now. So I am a Motherf***er..."
I did email her production company pointing out the real meaning of the term, but I don't suppose it made any difference.
A T shirt is one thing, astonishing to see it at that level....
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:17
Member (2008)
Italian to English
If French comédienne Florence Foresti thinks that
"In English, a "F***er" is someone who wanders around aimlessly" she needs to polish up on her English.
On the other hand, "flâneur" (someone who wanders around aimlessly, but with pleasure and interest) has nothing about it that would require the use of ast****ks.
And now that we're on the subject of silly words, I don't like "Proz" either. I have trouble explaining what it is to other people. In English... See more If French comédienne Florence Foresti thinks that
"In English, a "F***er" is someone who wanders around aimlessly" she needs to polish up on her English.
On the other hand, "flâneur" (someone who wanders around aimlessly, but with pleasure and interest) has nothing about it that would require the use of ast****ks.
And now that we're on the subject of silly words, I don't like "Proz" either. I have trouble explaining what it is to other people. In English that word (if it existed) would be pronounced "Prozz" or "Prause", which means nothing; so I then have to explain that it's meant to be the plural of a shortened version of "Professionals"; by which time my interlocutors have usually glazed over.
Proz is a wonderful (if slightly dated) website, and an essential tool for all translators. Improvements are possible, but perhaps the annoying name (pow-wow) given to get-togethers is not the most urgent one.
[Edited at 2014-12-16 15:20 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| easy to change | Dec 16, 2014 |
Tom -- you had me in stitches with the f***er quip! Thanks for the laugh, I needed one today.
I share the sentiments you've expressed in your posts in this thread all along. It's always been ironic to me that a group calling itself "professional" would then adopt a term like "powwow" for its meetings -- a term that, outside Native American contexts, no true professional elsewhere would use these days.
Maybe used-car salesmen, maybe over-eager new corporate hires, ma... See more Tom -- you had me in stitches with the f***er quip! Thanks for the laugh, I needed one today.
I share the sentiments you've expressed in your posts in this thread all along. It's always been ironic to me that a group calling itself "professional" would then adopt a term like "powwow" for its meetings -- a term that, outside Native American contexts, no true professional elsewhere would use these days.
Maybe used-car salesmen, maybe over-eager new corporate hires, maybe over-the-hill managers trying to sound "with it" among junior colleagues by recycling slang from sixty years ago -- but not real professionals who take themselves seriously or want to be taken seriously enough to make a living.
People can argue all they want about the meanings of "powwow" in dictionaries -- which, as we translators know, are notorious for missing connotation and lagging behind the times -- but they're missing the point: anyone using the term outside of Proz.com is begging for others to roll their eyes and make a mental note, "loser."
Perhaps it's true that, with all the other things about Proz.com needed to be brought into the 21st century, this is not the most urgent.
But it's the easiest.
All we have to do is stop using it -- how hard is that?
It's a lot easier than updating the look of the website, reversing the race to the bottom of rates paid by job posters, making the Blue Board honest, solving the systemic deterioration of the KudoZ glossary, and so on.
Finding an alternative should be fun -- after all, we're linguists, we're in this field because we enjoy finding better terms. Personally, I think "symPROZium" is delightful, but let's hear from others. A list of alternative terms was offered earlier in this thread.
What do YOU think would be a good substitute?
[Edited at 2014-12-16 17:43 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 02:47
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | But you miss the point | Dec 17, 2014 |
Catherine V. Howard wrote:
Maybe used-car salesmen, maybe over-eager new corporate hires, maybe over-the-hill managers trying to sound "with it" among junior colleagues by recycling slang from sixty years ago -- but not real professionals who take themselves seriously or want to be taken seriously enough to make a living.
The point of powwows, if I understand it correctly, is to break the tedium of long hours of serious work, done all alone, in the absence of any interaction with colleagues - it is the very anti-thesis of the boring as hell "serious" symposiums and seminars.
I have attended a few powwows, and they have been fun, informal events, with no protocols about dress, food or any thing else. Translators just walk in at a pre-decided hour interact, have fun, and go back.
It will be going against the grain of this idea to make powwows like any other regular professional gathering.
| | | | B D Finch
France
Local time: 23:17
French to English
+ ...
| This all seems fundamentally mistaken to me | Dec 19, 2014 |
scooke wrote:
Behind the use of an English word like powwow are ancient, yet very present, challenges for recognition as separate and distinct nations/countries. Here I am speaking regionally, for as I mentioned, we are not all 'tribes' of a larger ethnicity called "Indian". ... What European ever self-identifies as, "I am from the Dutch tribe", or, "We are from the Norwegian tribe of Europeans".
So the usage of a term like powwow is but one element in this continent-wide struggle for education, understanding, and respect. On a site like this it might be hoped that this change is possible.
[Edited at 2014-09-01 02:13 GMT]
I have not quite understood this objection to the use of the word powwow in English. How is this more disrespectful to First Nations than is the use of the many English words deriving from Indian languages: verandah, shampoo, pyjamas etc. to Indians? The assimilation of these words into English does not in any way celebrate the British Raj and the crimes of imperialism. To some extent it is a heritage of an earlier, 18th century, respectful relationship where the British and Indian upper classes cooperated, to their mutual benefit, in ruthlessly exploiting the workers in both India and Britain. I also fail to see that the term "tribe" is derogatory. Of course Dutch or Norwegian are not tribes, but there were Viking, Germanic, Celtic and Gallic tribes when that was still the European form of social organisation and, judging by the French affection for Asterix, some Europeans can get quite sentimental about that tribal heritage. Scots don't seem to find reference to clan (another word for tribe, I believe) derogatory,unless the particular reference is meant in a derogatory way.
I quite like the term "powwow", it has a certain warmth to it and suggests to me the idea of an informal, friendly but quite focussed meeting. Whether or not that is the original meaning doesn't really matter. It does serve as a reminder that North America had a native population who were dispossessed and it seems to be a good thing to remember that, because many of the descendants of that original population are still suffering from that dispossession and from current discrimination. It would be a good idea to do something about that, rather than getting het up about the use of the term "powwow". Perhaps each powwow should start with thinking about the people who originated the word, then the use of the term could even be a positive thing.
See http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-18796493 for Indian words in English and a link to Hobson Jobson e-book.
[Edited at 2014-12-19 18:08 GMT]
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Discontinue the use of 'powwow'. | Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.
More info » |
| | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
