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Who is not using MT today?
Thread poster: Gary Evans

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:47
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Finally, the cat (CAT) is out of the bag Aug 21

Gary Evans wrote:

I now work with FoundCAT, my own CAT tool, which has multiple machine translation APIs.


I must be honest: I cracked up when I saw this.
During the course of this discussion, you made several comments talking about the superior attributes of the tool you are using, compared to that of others. It sort of begged the question "so what tool do YOU use", but nobody took the bait.


 

Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 22:47
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
I have my spuerstitions, but not about MT Aug 21

Tom Hoar wrote:

Christine Andersen wrote:

I am not superstitious about MT...


Christine, I chose the word "superstition" carefully, not "superstitious," not "superstitiously," but "superstition." I used the noun as defined in the Merriam-Webster online dictionary's second definition, meaning "notion" (idea or belief). I'm not sure why you changed the meaning of my comment. I don't know you and had no intention to call you "superstitious" about anything (or anyone else in this topic for that matter).

The fact is, many comments expressed in this topic, including yours, reflect notions that people hold to despite evidence to the contrary (please revert to the definition). I won't repeat myself. If you reread my previous comment within the context of that definition and you'll find what I believe is the genesis of those notions.

[Edited at 2019-08-21 02:10 GMT]


There are a lot of facts and beliefs about MT in circulation, and I am not expert enough to sort truth from half-truth, fallacy or lies in every case. However, I have a fairly open mind about MT and watch its progress with interest. I try to sort the facts out by listening to people who seriously work with MT and pass on their experience.

I have found MT is just not the right tool for me - and please let me be the judge of that! I find insistence that everyone SHOULD use MT just as much a superstition (= superstitious in my world) as flatly refusing to have anything to do with it.
If I use tiny embroidery scissors for snipping embroidery thread and big shears for cutting large pieces of fabric, nobody is surprised. They would be, of course, if I insisted on using the same tool for both operations.

I undoubtedly have my superstitions somewhere - I try not to be governed by them, but most humans have superstitions of one sort or another. For me that is the same as being superstitious (or not).
However, I think we may be getting off topic.
Over and out from me.


 

Gary Evans  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:47
Member (2007)
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Love Cats Aug 21

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

I must be honest: I cracked up when I saw this.
During the course of this discussion, you made several comments talking about the superior attributes of the tool you are using, compared to that of others. It sort of begged the question "so what tool do YOU use", but nobody took the bait.



Hey Katalin,

I didn't mention the MT tool I use the most and don't intend to either. So I'm glad nobody took the bait as therre was nothing on the hook.

I did mention FoundCAT on a recent post, which is an open source, free to use CAT tool that we developed at the university where I teach. You can find it on GitLab if you look for it. Try to guess which of the MT engines I prefer if you like.

Sorry to disappoint you. It's been a grim day in the USA with the collapse of the Greenland deal

Regards,
Gary


 

Tom Hoar
United States
Local time: 16:47
English
half-truth, fallacy or lies??? Aug 21

Christine Andersen wrote:

I am not expert enough to sort truth from half-truth, fallacy or lies in every case.


I’m really regret I used the word “superstition.” I don’t know where “half-truth, fallacy or lies” comes from. Certainly not from what I wrote.

So, can I have a do-over?

1. Everyone in this group has used an online MT services exclusively. (Please correct me if I’m wrong as so many like to do.)

2. All online MT services use a ”big data” training corpus strategy with the intention to improve quality. This corpus strategy was developed over 15 years ago and has not changed in that time.

3. Because of your experiences only using MT services with a big data corpus strategy, you do not have any knowledge or experience with how other corpus strategies affect the MT quality or its impact on your work experience.

4. The big data corpus strategy was state-of-the-art in 2006, 13 years ago.

5. 13 years is a long time in computing technology. We’ve learned a lot about what makes a better corpus. Computers have gotten better.

6. There is evidence that other corpus strategies deliver significantly better quality (up to 10x improvement)

7. Despite evidence to the contrary, online MT services continue with their +15 year old corpus strategy, thus self-defeating their own intentions.

8. Despite evidence to the contrary, you believe that the online MT services are delivering the best possible quality.

9. You conclude that that the quality of all MT, regardless of how it's crated, will never live up to your expectations because of your experiences with one training corpus strategy.

Not once did I mention half-truth, fallacy or lies. Not once did I use the word “superstition” but I used the words in its definition.

The notions you cling to regarding MT are fundamentally linked to and limited by your experiences with a 15-year old training corpus strategy and you didn’t even know it.

Despite the existence of evidence that contradicts the old strategy and clearly shows better corpus strategies deliver better quality you’ve never experienced, you cling to your notions.

You’re the only who introduced the idea of open mindedness into this thread. Is clinging to a motion despite evidence to the contrary quality as open-minded?

[Edited at 2019-08-22 04:13 GMT]


 

Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 22:47
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
@Tom Hoar I am not accusing you. I meant the vast amounts of statements about MT on the web Aug 22

My sincere apologies.

Tom Hoar wrote:

Christine Andersen wrote:

I am not expert enough to sort truth from half-truth, fallacy or lies in every case.


I’m really regret I used the word “superstition.” I don’t know where “half-truth, fallacy or lies” comes from. Certainly not from what I wrote.


I am sorry.
My comment was not meant to be personal, and your work sounds really interesting.

I have seen the results of quite recent research and developments in my language pair - last year in fact. One of my client agencies was taking part in a workshop which I attended.

They - and I - are still not using MT, although many agencies who work with Scandinavian languages do. We all have our reasons and respect each other.


Tom Hoar
Dan Lucas
 
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