| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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Mario Chavez (X) 
Local time: 02:22
English to Spanish
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| More ways to skin a cat | Nov 21, 2017 |
Elizabeth Tamblin wrote: Over 50% believe they offer better value than average. That must mean some people are over-estimating themselves... 
Or that some people are underestimating themselves.
The question reminds me the braindead U.S. government form questions to immigrants: Are you a communist? Have you ever been associated with the Nazi party? Have you ever helped another person obtain immigration benefits illegally? And so on.
As others have said, it is difficult to measure what is average in our profession. It's a slippery slope of subjectivity.
| | | | | Client expectations | Nov 21, 2017 |
Mario Chavez wrote: Elizabeth Tamblin wrote: Over 50% believe they offer better value than average. That must mean some people are over-estimating themselves... Or that some people are underestimating themselves.
I guess that what makes a difference is delivering more value than the client expects.
And what do they expect? What are their expectations based on?
Most likely, on the service level they received from translators in the past or, if they are first-timers, on the service level other people told them about. Otherwise, they have no expectation whatsoever.
Mario Chavez wrote:
The question reminds me the braindead U.S. government form questions to immigrants: Are you a communist? Have you ever been associated with the Nazi party? Have you ever helped another person obtain immigration benefits illegally? And so on.
Considering them braindead shows your biased expectations. You expect Americans to be obstinate bureaucrats from some other experiences you might have had with them.
The point in these questions is that their law enforcement system is quite effective. If any of the "NOs" an applicant answers to these questions is later proven to be a lie, this will add "perjury" (something they don't take lightly) to that person's list of misdemeanors. While it might be difficult to throw out someone who once was a communist, Nazi, whatever, it is a lot easier to lock up someone who committed perjury
Mario Chavez wrote:
As others have said, it is difficult to measure what is average in our profession. It's a slippery slope of subjectivity.
I agree with you that the question gets vague upon mentioning "average", when there is none. However it would take more text to explain "customer expectations" in the space Proz allots for poll questions.
The truth is that the massive worldwide overabundance of amateur bilinguals offering translation services for any amount of money, payable whenever the client feels they have surplus money around, is precisely what led many supposedly professional translation agency project managers to believe that anything can get professionally translated, from any language into any other, for about 1-3 US cents per word. That's their "expectation", and they also expect that hammering this expectation with enough vigor will make it prevail. Otherwise, they wouldn't base their selling price on these costs.
No wonder that most translators demanding a two-digit US cents figure per word rate offer better value than "average"... since the average is heavily biased by the overwhelming frequency of the lower values.
| | | | Mario Freitas
Brazil
Local time: 03:22
Member (2014)
English to Portuguese
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| Simple arithmetics! | Nov 21, 2017 |
If 52% believe they are above average and 22% said "it depends" (which adds another 10% do the first group, at least), do you realize if they are all correct, they are all wrong? Because obiously, the exact "average" has to have 50% of the people below it and 50% above it. So at least 25% of the answerers are overestimating themselves, instead of underestimating, as suggested.
Ok, editing: Of course we should consider that most people in this forum are or may be above average indeed... See more If 52% believe they are above average and 22% said "it depends" (which adds another 10% do the first group, at least), do you realize if they are all correct, they are all wrong? Because obiously, the exact "average" has to have 50% of the people below it and 50% above it. So at least 25% of the answerers are overestimating themselves, instead of underestimating, as suggested.
Ok, editing: Of course we should consider that most people in this forum are or may be above average indeed, since the "below averagers" likely do not have a ProZ account or participate in this type of forum. So the simple arithmetics may not be so simple... sorry.
[Edited at 2017-11-21 23:07 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Not necessarily | Nov 22, 2017 |
Elizabeth Tamblin wrote: Over 50% believe they offer better value than average. That must mean some people are over-estimating themselves...
That is the danger of statistics!
The ones who don't think they are better than average might just not be answering the poll. There is no way to know whether the people who answer these polls are a representative sample. Quite possibly we are over-estimating ourselves, but you can never be sure!
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Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 02:22
English to Spanish
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| Government forms | Nov 22, 2017 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote: Mario Chavez wrote:
The question reminds me the braindead U.S. government form questions to immigrants: Are you a communist? Have you ever been associated with the Nazi party? Have you ever helped another person obtain immigration benefits illegally? And so on. Considering them braindead shows your biased expectations. You expect Americans to be obstinate bureaucrats from some other experiences you might have had with them. The point in these questions is that their law enforcement system is quite effective. If any of the "NOs" an applicant answers to these questions is later proven to be a lie, this will add "perjury" (something they don't take lightly) to that person's list of misdemeanors. While it might be difficult to throw out someone who once was a communist, Nazi, whatever, it is a lot easier to lock up someone who committed perjury.
You're assuming that I'm writing the above as someone who looks at Americans from the outside, remaining outside of that country. As it happens, I am American and I live in the Upper Midwest. I just like to point out the obvious sometimes (U.S. government forms) and it's my opinion born from observation. Suggesting that I have “biased expectations” is a strongly worded statement, don't you think?
Perhaps you can share how you came up with the information that individuals committing perjury on an immigration form end up in jail. I'm asking because it's news to me.
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I assume that "value means translations that are useful to the client.
I taught translation for 17 years and have extensive experience correcting the tests of applicants for full-time translation positions. I also worked as a reviser/reviewer for a couple of decades. So I have seen a lot of work by translators in my language combinations, and based on what I have seen, many translators do not produce useful work.
| | | | | Sorry, wrong preposition | Nov 22, 2017 |
Mario Chavez wrote: José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote: Mario Chavez wrote:
The question reminds me the braindead U.S. government form questions to immigrants: Are you a communist? Have you ever been associated with the Nazi party? Have you ever helped another person obtain immigration benefits illegally? And so on. Considering them braindead shows your biased expectations. You expect Americans to be obstinate bureaucrats from some other experiences you might have had with them. The point in these questions is that their law enforcement system is quite effective. If any of the "NOs" an applicant answers to these questions is later proven to be a lie, this will add "perjury" (something they don't take lightly) to that person's list of misdemeanors. While it might be difficult to throw out someone who once was a communist, Nazi, whatever, it is a lot easier to lock up someone who committed perjury. You're assuming that I'm writing the above as someone who looks at Americans from the outside, remaining outside of that country. As it happens, I am American and I live in the Upper Midwest. I just like to point out the obvious sometimes (U.S. government forms) and it's my opinion born from observation. Suggesting that I have “biased expectations” is a strongly worded statement, don't you think? Perhaps you can share how you came up with the information that individuals committing perjury on an immigration form end up in jail. I'm asking because it's news to me.
You are correct, I should have used "lock out" instead of "lock up" those liars.
This article is quite enlightening on the nature and effect of lies in official situations, either under oath or otherwise. The misdeed is not in telling them, but in these lies being used to thwart the purpose of the legal/judicial system. An explanation regarding US immigration may be found here.
If a person who lied upon answering those 'braindead' questions is eventually caught in some related misconduct, their lie will be used to escalate the charges. That's the system.
Looking anything from the inside or outside merely involves shifting the point of reference, provided you have more than one. As your degree is from Argentina, it means that you have witnessed something 'different' in your life. That's different from the 'redneck' stereotype, who supposedly has never seen anything else in life.
Steering hard to get back on track to this thread you attempted to hijack, the "average" (value in translation) is a matter of stance, too. Now that translation is fully globalized, I am sure that the same client has different expectations from translators living in different countries, as well as those in the same country however working in different language pairs.
So the original question "do you think...?" could be rephrased into "do you deliberately strive to deliver better value...?"
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