| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Poll: Do you make exceptions and translate into your source language? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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Mario Chavez (X) 
Local time: 04:49
English to Spanish
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| Hello, Angus! | May 30, 2017 |
Angus Stewart wrote:
I was told at University when studying translation that it was professionally unethical to translate into my source languages and so have never done so.
Angus, I'm keen on knowing what basis they used (these professors) to teach that translating into source languages is unethical. Thanks!
Mário (as I'm currently in Lisbon, Portugal)
| | | | Luiz Barucke
Brazil
Local time: 05:49
Spanish to Portuguese
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| Not regular translations | May 30, 2017 |
I have translated academic articles into Spanish a few times, but stating clearly Spanish is not my native language and documents needed editing (if they did, I can't guarantee).
Regularly, I don't offer translation into my source languages, because I don't feel comfortable with it. But I can't see any ethical conflict if someone does feel comfortable doing that and/or states translation might need some editing.
Sometimes, for creative translation jobs, I'm asked to do ... See more I have translated academic articles into Spanish a few times, but stating clearly Spanish is not my native language and documents needed editing (if they did, I can't guarantee).
Regularly, I don't offer translation into my source languages, because I don't feel comfortable with it. But I can't see any ethical conflict if someone does feel comfortable doing that and/or states translation might need some editing.
Sometimes, for creative translation jobs, I'm asked to do a backtranslation, so client can have an idea of what is being said. But this is just a reference. Actual delivery is translation into target. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jan Truper
Germany
Local time: 10:49
Member (2016)
English to German
| Only under certain circumstances | May 30, 2017 |
I usually translate EN > DE.
I will do it the other way around
- if the client is aware of the fact that I am not a native EN translator, but insists on having me do the work nonetheless, because they specifically prefer a native DE translator, or because they specifically prefer me (I've had both happen for perfectly legitimate reasons);
and
- if the client is willing to pay a slightly higher than my usual rate, since I find DE>EN translation ... See more I usually translate EN > DE.
I will do it the other way around
- if the client is aware of the fact that I am not a native EN translator, but insists on having me do the work nonetheless, because they specifically prefer a native DE translator, or because they specifically prefer me (I've had both happen for perfectly legitimate reasons);
and
- if the client is willing to pay a slightly higher than my usual rate, since I find DE>EN translation a bit more challenging and time-intensive;
and
- if the project tickles my fancy.
As a matter of fact, later today I will do a small DE>EN project which meets all three conditions. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dénis Wettmann
Ireland
Local time: 10:49
Member (2016)
German to English
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| What exactly is amusing about the comment? | May 30, 2017 |
writeaway wrote: A battle cry used by many: Julieta Moss wrote:
It is easier for me than translating to my native language
I am always amused when I read this claim. First of all, we are supposed to be professional translators, i.e. professional linguists. What sort of professional linguist forgets his/her native language to the extent of no longer being able to write in it? And English is deceptively easy. As in most other languages, spoken English and written English often go their separate ways. Being able to hold a conservation doesn't automatically mean being able to write at a professional level. And naturally my reply to the poll is: No, never.
I was born in Germany and grew up speaking German and English in my natural environment, learned both languages in school, and went to university in Ireland. All my devices are in English, and all my media (books, videos, games, and so forth) are consumed in English as well. My spouse and I speak mostly German with each other, and we live in Italy. I consider myself bilingual and translate into both languages. I also, find it easier to translate into English when it relates to psychology – which is what I studied at university – since I am more accustomed to the English terminology.
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Angus Stewart
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:49
Member (2011)
French to English
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Mario Chavez wrote: Angus Stewart wrote:
I was told at University when studying translation that it was professionally unethical to translate into my source languages and so have never done so. Angus, I'm keen on knowing what basis they used (these professors) to teach that translating into source languages is unethical. Thanks! Mário (as I'm currently in Lisbon, Portugal)
Hello Mario,
Long time no speak.
The professors' argument ran along the lines that as one's command over the source language was inherently weaker one would not have the same intuition as a native speaker to detect when one had committed an error. Consequently, one could not guarantee producing the polished end product that one's clients were entitled to expect from a professional translator.
Rather ironically I got into University to study translation in the first place on the strength of a sample translation I had done into my main source language for a language charity I was a trustee of at that time. However, it is not something that I would do now professionally as quite apart from the ethical issue raised by my professors I find it takes longer when I write in my source languages and that simply makes it a less economical proposition than translating into my target language.
Hope you are enjoying sunny Lisbon : )
Angus
[Edited at 2017-05-30 18:46 GMT]
| | | | Ledja
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:49
English to Albanian
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| I have tread these waters before... | May 30, 2017 |
...and am not going to apologise for translating both ways. Is it possible to eventually gain more experience in a second language than in your native one? There's room for discussion there. As there's room for confessions too.
I did not get to complete high school back home, and I've spent the last 20 years in the country of my source language. Quite legitimately, people could argue that I may only be up to task for translation of general or conversational contents, but not fully q... See more ...and am not going to apologise for translating both ways. Is it possible to eventually gain more experience in a second language than in your native one? There's room for discussion there. As there's room for confessions too.
I did not get to complete high school back home, and I've spent the last 20 years in the country of my source language. Quite legitimately, people could argue that I may only be up to task for translation of general or conversational contents, but not fully qualified or experienced to deliver a well-rounded piece of writing in any specific field in my mothertongue. On the other hand, I've learned to analyse literary contents, argue about an author's style and intentions in far more depth while studying English Language and Literature than I've ever done in Albanian. One of my favourite jobs has been to compile 2-3-page reports on the quality and style of book translations that would not look as professional in tone and wording if I were to pen them in my native language - a language which, in my daily job, writing in as easily or articulately in relevant term-riddled notes and observations about pupil learning, performance and behaviour would be rather a struggle for me. Reason? Not usually faced with the task in Albanian.
[Edited at 2017-05-30 18:07 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 10:49
Member (2009)
English to German
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| Always EN <> GE | May 30, 2017 |
After several decades of intensive, daily use of both German and English, there no longer seems to be any difference between the two, other than that I'm "native" in German. So I have no problems translating into both.
But I don't translate into Spanish.
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I would like to throw in that sometimes comprehension is the key factor:
Being a legal translator, I have seen legal texts e.g. contracts in my 'own' language that has such old-fashioned and complicated language that most non-native speakers wouldn't be able to understand. In such cases it is preferable that the translator is a native speaker of the source language.
[Edited at 2017-05-30 14:49 GMT]
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Mario Freitas
Brazil
Local time: 05:49
Member (2014)
English to Portuguese
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| Brazilian curiosity | May 30, 2017 |
I rarely translate into English for clients in North America or Europe. They will surely prefer a native English speaker. In Brazil, however, the agencies won't pay the price a native English speaker charges. They want to pay less, so they engage local translators to translate from PT to EN.
I accept many of these jobs regularly. Although most of my clients are abroad and pay me decent rates, I'd rather complete my agenda with jobs at rates 25% or 30% below the rates abroad than spend tim... See more I rarely translate into English for clients in North America or Europe. They will surely prefer a native English speaker. In Brazil, however, the agencies won't pay the price a native English speaker charges. They want to pay less, so they engage local translators to translate from PT to EN.
I accept many of these jobs regularly. Although most of my clients are abroad and pay me decent rates, I'd rather complete my agenda with jobs at rates 25% or 30% below the rates abroad than spend time in activities that will give me no money at all, and these Brazilian agency jobs do complete my agenda.
Pride does not pay bills, and if I don't accept these jobs, there is a line with another 100 translators waiting to take them. They will not go to native speakers anyway. And since I usually deliver good-quality jobs in English in my areas of specialty, I have no issues accepting these jobs. I will not accept a Pt-En job if the field is medicine, for example. But for engineering, contracts, legal documents, I will not hesitate.
[Edited at 2017-05-30 15:54 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 10:49
Member (2009)
English to German
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Mario Freitas wrote:
Pride does not pay bills, and if I don't accept these jobs, there is a line with another 100 translators waiting to take them. They will not go to native speakers anyway. And since I usually deliver good-quality jobs in English in my areas of specialty, I have no issues accepting these jobs. I will not accept a Pt-En job if the field is medicine, for example. But for engineering, contracts, legal documents, I will not hesitate.
[Edited at 2017-05-30 15:54 GMT]
This is one of the most important factors when considering whether or not to accept a job, we all have bills to pay.
You do sound to feel very comfortable with (and being good at) your translations into English, and if your customers are happy, you are happy or at least content with the work you're doing. It's also important to know what you can and what you can't do. This is, IMO, what makes out a good translator. And yes, the competition is some of the most "popular" fields is though, and one has to survive.
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I have never been asked to, and I wouldn't be good enough.
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 11:49
Member
English to Turkish
| I wonder who made this rule: "Always translate into your native language" | May 30, 2017 |
Even if you do that and no matter how smooth and flawless your translation is, one is always bound to notice the glimpses of translation lurking in the text. It will never look like as if it's written by a native speaker. This is especially the case with a language like Turkish, which has a fairly low affinity with western languages like English, French, German etc. Besides I don't see that many Brits or Aussies heading this way to learn Turkish in the hopes of becoming exclusively Turkish to En... See more Even if you do that and no matter how smooth and flawless your translation is, one is always bound to notice the glimpses of translation lurking in the text. It will never look like as if it's written by a native speaker. This is especially the case with a language like Turkish, which has a fairly low affinity with western languages like English, French, German etc. Besides I don't see that many Brits or Aussies heading this way to learn Turkish in the hopes of becoming exclusively Turkish to English translators. No offense but "Make exceptions and translate into your source language" just sounds snobbish and pretentious to me. And yes, as a few posters above aptly pointed out, we have bills to pay.
Just who are we to pontificate if a person feels confident enough to take a stab at translating into their source language? At least they are going about it in an honest manner compared to those who claim to be bilingual and have two (most probably fake) gray N signs on their Proz profile. ▲ Collapse
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Diana Coada (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:49
Portuguese to English
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| Many people and professionals do... | May 30, 2017 |
writeaway wrote:
What sort of professional linguist forgets his/her native language to the extent of no longer being able to write in it?
...and those who call themselves professional translators should the most aware of that. Language is a muscle. And when you live outside your country of birth for more than half your life, that's exactly what happens.
And how dare we question what our university tutors tell us! It's time the West accepted there are other translation schools of thought around the world. Alas, the West is in the minority here so please let's stop imposing your opinions.
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 10:49
Spanish to English
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| Only under certain conditions | May 30, 2017 |
Normally I wouldn't recommend it. However, as long as I have a qualified and competent native speaker translator to help me, I have done so on occasion. In fact, my Spanish colleague is currently having translation into English thrust upon her, so I'm helping out with that. I wouldn't do it with just any old Tom, Dick or Harriet though.
| | | | B D Finch
France
Local time: 10:49
French to English
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| There are exceptions, but it's a rule generally worth respecting | May 30, 2017 |
DCM Linguistics wrote:
Language is a muscle. And when you live outside your country of birth for more than half your life, that's exactly what happens.
And how dare we question what our university tutors tell us! It's time the West accepted there are other translation schools of thought around the world. Alas, the West is in the minority here so please let's stop imposing your opinions.
No, language is not a muscle, but of course it does need to be exercised and kept up-to-date.
I find the above comment on "the West" reads more like prejudice than argument. However, here are a couple of arguments to back it up. Firstly, if there is a real shortage of translators from your target language into your source language, then it may be necessary to be prepared to translate both ways. Secondly, people whose mother tongue has few native speakers often need to acquire fluency in one or more languages for use as a lingua franca, for access to education, culture, work etc. The lack of this need on the part of most native speakers of English is one reason for the generally low level of our fluency in other languages.
An example of the first argument: China is definitely not in the West and I don't think someone whose mother tongue is English should translate from English into Chinese, because there are plenty of Chinese mother-tongue translators who can do it. However, I do think that a native speaker of Norwegian or Icelandic whose source language was Chinese would be justified in translating both ways because there is probably a shortage of Chinese mother-tongue translators with those source languages.
[Edited at 2017-05-30 20:40 GMT]
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