Poll: Do you regard translation as a profession or an industry? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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| | | One comparison | Oct 24, 2015 |
If the legal profession is happy enough to talk about the "legal industry", and the evidence of some of its most august publications suggests it is, I don't see why we should get our knickers in a twist about "translation industry".
Especially since (on average) we are much further down the evolutionary scale than lawyers in almost every conceivable way, yet for some reason they remain one of our favoured points of reference (along with dentists, accountants, plumbers and the retail... See more If the legal profession is happy enough to talk about the "legal industry", and the evidence of some of its most august publications suggests it is, I don't see why we should get our knickers in a twist about "translation industry".
Especially since (on average) we are much further down the evolutionary scale than lawyers in almost every conceivable way, yet for some reason they remain one of our favoured points of reference (along with dentists, accountants, plumbers and the retail trade in general, natch).
[Edited at 2015-10-24 09:10 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 22:24
Spanish to English
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Chez moi, first and foremost it's an art. Secondly, a profession. The "industry" punters can sod off.
PS: Not looking for an argument here, just voicing the first thing that popped into my noggin. I've got work to do, so I shouldn't even be here...
[Edited at 2015-10-24 09:23 GMT]
Oh well then... although as I see it, the ability to transmogrify the auditory appendage of a female swine into a coinage container of the finest fabric, is indeed, as the song says, a ... See more Chez moi, first and foremost it's an art. Secondly, a profession. The "industry" punters can sod off.
PS: Not looking for an argument here, just voicing the first thing that popped into my noggin. I've got work to do, so I shouldn't even be here...
[Edited at 2015-10-24 09:23 GMT]
Oh well then... although as I see it, the ability to transmogrify the auditory appendage of a female swine into a coinage container of the finest fabric, is indeed, as the song says, a kind of magick. "When we speak of translation as magic, we are reaching for a complex metaphor, one that includes the unfamiliar in its bounds, which points to the precarious ..." (TLDR) ...
[Edited at 2015-10-24 10:28 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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neilmac wrote:
Chez moi, first and foremost it's an art. Secondly, a profession. The "industry" punters can sod off.
.... translation being revered as some kind of art provokes a similar reaction chez moi.
Not, of course, to deny it has a creative side. But while all art is creative, not everything creative is art. Discuss. (A-level Philosophy, Paper 2, 1988)
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| It's a BUSINESS | Oct 24, 2015 |
I regard translation (in the context of freelance commercial translators) as a business.
I think that, with the way the world has been going lately, "business" has become a dirty word, while "industry" is viewed as nobler and more admirable.
Whatever we call it, it's work, the work we do for a living. Yes, and a profession, too.
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Let me start by saying that I’m expressing only a private opinion, which commits no one but me, but it’s nonetheless an opinion which I hold very strongly. As a translation service provider, I approach my work as a craft (a kind of an embroidery work with words instead of needle and thread) and for me it’s impossible to contemplate any project as a mere mechanical operation like the word “industry” might suggest. It’s my profession, my job, my business…
| | | | Kristina Cosumano (X) 
Germany
Local time: 22:24
German to English
| Agree with Teresa... | Oct 24, 2015 |
that translation is a craft. It certainly has artistic elements to it, but so has cathedral stonemasonry.
Then again, even music isn't a pure art. There has always been a bit of the industry to it.
I'll add, the Translation Industry, as an existing term, imho does not refer to the translators but to the agencies, the CAT tool designers, dictionary publishers, etc.
[Edited at 2015-10-24 11:55 GMT]
| | | | | The difference | Oct 24, 2015 |
Translation is a profession, a liberal profession. It is about the provision of a service, the source of which is the intellect. Industry is about the production of goods. That's the basic distinction which can be fine-tuned of course. Production of words, the requirement of intellect in order to produce goods, yes, that is necessary, but the basic distinction remains. Translation is a profession. That said, I don't really care how it is described as long as I have interesting work coming in, pl... See more Translation is a profession, a liberal profession. It is about the provision of a service, the source of which is the intellect. Industry is about the production of goods. That's the basic distinction which can be fine-tuned of course. Production of words, the requirement of intellect in order to produce goods, yes, that is necessary, but the basic distinction remains. Translation is a profession. That said, I don't really care how it is described as long as I have interesting work coming in, pleasant business relations and clients who pay on time.
[Edited at 2015-10-24 13:39 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| It is my profession | Oct 24, 2015 |
and I am part of an industry
| | | | | Depends on the point of view | Oct 24, 2015 |
For translators, it is a profession. It requires study, skills and experience.
For translation agencies, it is an industry. For some of them, unfortunately many, if they can't get translation clients with deep pockets and/or translators desperate enough to be cheap, they might move on to selling some other commodity, as they see it. Thousands of words in one day, kilograms of groceries or seeds, perhaps liters of oil, whatever in the other.
| | | | Adrian MM. (X)
Local time: 22:24
French to English
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| It's turned into an AGENCY RACKET run by non-linguists | Oct 24, 2015 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
For translators, it is a profession. It requires study, skills and experience.
For translation agencies, it is an industry. For some of them, unfortunately many, if they can't get translation clients with deep pockets and/or translators desperate enough to be cheap, they might move on to selling some other commodity, as they see it. Thousands of words in one day, kilograms of groceries or seeds, perhaps liters of oil, whatever in the other.
I&T run as a private business vs. as an adjunct of international organisations and with only a handful (5) of translation agencies in London up to 40 years ago (when, it is true Christine, it used to be regarded as a foreign housewives' cottage industry) has turned - objectively - into a racket with plenty of fraudsters, flies-by-night and non-linguists - describing themselves as 'language executives', including even physical bullies, joining the bandwagon and cashing in on the explosion in demand for EU and international 'communication'.
For full-time translators and interpreters themselves, it may - subjectively - be a 'vocation' rather than vacation - or a sideline for part-timers after pin or pocket money, but caveat: the bad eggs who are deemed to behave 'unprofessionally' and bill for police and court interpreting services unrendered.
And Charlie B., the comparison with the (oft rip-off) legal profession is a tenuous one. Lawyers virtually everywhere, whilst demanding 'word-match' discounts from translators, will never accept discounts for fuzzy or exact matches of the wording of documents and deeds churned out, recycled and regurgitated ('engrossed') with very slight changes - or lifted from books of drafting precedents - for different or even the same private or corporate clients.
Nor are translators and interpreters lower down on the evolutionary scale, as many lawyers and judges consider legal translation and court interpreting to be the 'hardest legal skills to master' (actual quote from an ex-President of the Family, Admiralty and Probate Division of the High Court in London)
[Edited at 2015-10-25 09:41 GMT]
| | | | | I might - just - go along with 'cottage industry'... | Oct 24, 2015 |
Recently I tidied up in my mother's Buckingham lace bobbins that she never learned to use, but they were passed down through the family. I will never get my fingers round them either, but some are beautiful, decorated with glass beads. Others are plain, just turned and smoothed off, but even the wood is fine-grained and warm in your hand. An aunt made really beautiful lace with them, some of which my mother, my sister and I wore on our wedding dresses...
In the 1950s, 60s and 70s m... See more Recently I tidied up in my mother's Buckingham lace bobbins that she never learned to use, but they were passed down through the family. I will never get my fingers round them either, but some are beautiful, decorated with glass beads. Others are plain, just turned and smoothed off, but even the wood is fine-grained and warm in your hand. An aunt made really beautiful lace with them, some of which my mother, my sister and I wore on our wedding dresses...
In the 1950s, 60s and 70s my Danish mother-in-law had a small weaving shop with a few young weavers, some famously from the island of Læsø. For many years they made and sold fabric for shirts, but later they made beautiful aprons and table runners with patterns, and gorgeous soft woollen headscarfs. She was a lacemaker, and I had her lace on my wedding dress too! Something old, Something new...
The image fits quite well with freelance translators, working at their craft in their back rooms, but working for all sorts of purposes. Some are utilitarian and down to earth, and then there is all the law and medicine, environment and education... and occasionally something beautiful like bobbin lace.
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When I suggested this poll, I was furious, though I do not remember the precise details. Just that no one should refer to translation as an industry that day!! It was a PROFESSION, should anyone wish to know. I have often called it a craft too.
Industry is many things, and it calls for teamwork.
As with translation, machines and robots are taking over the repetitive assembly line work, and many industrial workers today are highly skilled craftsmen and women.
Engineers, builders, welders, even in heavy industry, or perhaps especially in heavy industry, need to know exactly what they are doing - there is a fine line between top quality and disaster. It would be interesting to discuss with some of the engineers in my family whether they work in industry or a profession, but I think most would say both.
I still prefer to call translation a profession, but if the word industry is used, then perhaps I can accept it. ▲ Collapse
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Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 16:24
English to Spanish
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Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
Translation is a profession, a liberal profession. It is about the provision of a service, the source of which is the intellect. Industry is about the production of goods. That's the basic distinction which can be fine-tuned of course. Production of words, the requirement of intellect in order to produce goods, yes, that is necessary, but the basic distinction remains. Translation is a profession. That said, I don't really care how it is described as long as I have interesting work coming in, pleasant business relations and clients who pay on time.
[Edited at 2015-10-24 13:39 GMT]
Perhaps the title of the poll should be rewritten to clarify things. First, using the word translation so nonchalantly and in such a blasé way lends itself to confusion and arguments of little use because we will start talking about different things thinking we are referring to the same concept: the act of translation.
And the act of translation is a profession, a craft, a career choice. It is no more a business than baking chocolate chip cookies following your grandma's recipe. There is a business side to every craft, trade and profession, of course, but leave it to the typical libertarian American minds who are so bent on preaching the gospel of untrammeled capitalism as the panacea for every challenge, issue and problem the world faces under the sun.
Because translators do not produce tangible goods of any kind but provide a much-needed array of services to the public, governments and private companies, the act of translation can never be an industry. But you know what is a translation-related industry? Software developers, marketers and vendors who peddle their productivity wares, their CAT tools, their project management web portals and their billing applications and apps. They sell seats, licenses or units in tangible or intangible form (read: CDs or downloadable programs), so they are an industry. We translators are not.
I'm afraid many young translators and translation students lack the critical thinking skills to tell the difference.
| | | | Mario Freitas
Brazil
Local time: 17:24
Member (2014)
English to Portuguese
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Translator = profession
Translation = industry
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