| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Poll: Are you willing to provide potential clients with references or letters of recommendation? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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nrichy (X)
France
Local time: 12:37
French to Dutch
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Gudrun Maydorn wrote: Mary Worby wrote:
Providing references not only breaches client confidentiality, it is also questionable in terms of competition.
I think this is a cultural thing. When you see all those resumes on LinkedIn, Americans mention their references and referrals, while persons in Europe are generally hired on the basis of their education, work experience and compétences. Being asked for recommendations seems very strange, especially in a customer to service provider situation.
As for references, I once had a conflictual situation with an advertising agency, because their principles are opposed to mine: they see all clients they have worked for (even only one hour) as references and a source of new names and logos on their website. They did not understand my position (must be a very bad translator, no references in 25 years of experience) and I lost the client.
| | | | | Not that old "confidentiality" chestnut... | Feb 13, 2015 |
You're not giving away state secrets, you're giving the prospective customer the name of a willing referee or a letter of recommendation willingly provided.
So how can any "confidentiality" be breached?
Even if we broaden the question to disclosing the names of existing customers, it's rarely going to be a breach of confidentiality.
OK, some paranoid agencies, the kind that want you to sign your life away in SLAs and NDAs, let's call them WNKAs, require on... See more You're not giving away state secrets, you're giving the prospective customer the name of a willing referee or a letter of recommendation willingly provided.
So how can any "confidentiality" be breached?
Even if we broaden the question to disclosing the names of existing customers, it's rarely going to be a breach of confidentiality.
OK, some paranoid agencies, the kind that want you to sign your life away in SLAs and NDAs, let's call them WNKAs, require on penalty of death that you keep quiet about working for them. Well, if I did work for them, I'd want to keep quiet about it too. (And anyway, how do you keep such a commitment? Do you have to hide the relevant invoices from your accountant and the taxman?)
WNKAs aside, no customer has ever asked us to keep our working relationship secret. And there must be few circumstances where this would be in any way necessary.
I'm therefore quite happy to disclose the names of our customers. But that is not what the question was about. ▲ Collapse
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I have done it until now, but not from agencies.
A couple of years ago I worked 3 months in-house to translate a university intranet.
The director told me I was welcome to use him as a reference.
So that's what I have been doing, but I am starting to think that relationship is getting a bit outdated, how long can I keep using his name?
And in light of what has just been mentioned in this forum, I think I am going to stop providing references. My best... See more I have done it until now, but not from agencies.
A couple of years ago I worked 3 months in-house to translate a university intranet.
The director told me I was welcome to use him as a reference.
So that's what I have been doing, but I am starting to think that relationship is getting a bit outdated, how long can I keep using his name?
And in light of what has just been mentioned in this forum, I think I am going to stop providing references. My best clients have never asked anyway.
[Edited at 2015-02-13 11:59 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-02-13 12:05 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Which will boil down to the same thing as the "No, but..."
I have no problem with that, if asked. But... as clients contact me through word of mouth. They already have the recommendation.
However, if I am moving into a new area with new skills which I consider enable me to offer a new service, then I might contact one or two potential clients of interest. A reference may be requested in those circumstances, in which case, with the referees' permission (of course), I wi... See more Which will boil down to the same thing as the "No, but..."
I have no problem with that, if asked. But... as clients contact me through word of mouth. They already have the recommendation.
However, if I am moving into a new area with new skills which I consider enable me to offer a new service, then I might contact one or two potential clients of interest. A reference may be requested in those circumstances, in which case, with the referees' permission (of course), I will then provide what has been requested. New skills I have acquired over time have not been acquired in isolation but always in a given context with people who are specialists. Those people can attest to my knowledge and ability in the field. Generally though, in those circumstances, the request will come from that same group of people and the word-of-mouth thing happens in that new domain over time and of itself. ▲ Collapse
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I write MCIL, Chartered Linguist after my name and have just been vetted once again (with references to the institute) by the Chartered Institute of Linguists.
I have signed their code of conduct and Proz.com's.
Scans of my exam certificates are available on request, and clients can see small samples of my work if they like.
Sometimes I hear that a client has recommended me, which is nice, but I never ask them to. When my name appears in a book or brochure, I migh... See more I write MCIL, Chartered Linguist after my name and have just been vetted once again (with references to the institute) by the Chartered Institute of Linguists.
I have signed their code of conduct and Proz.com's.
Scans of my exam certificates are available on request, and clients can see small samples of my work if they like.
Sometimes I hear that a client has recommended me, which is nice, but I never ask them to. When my name appears in a book or brochure, I might mention it, but that is not usually a relevant type of text for the clients who want references!
If they will not send me work, that is their problem, not mine these days - I always have enough to do! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Balasubramaniam L. 
India
Local time: 16:07
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
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SITE LOCALIZER | I find this to be a big pain in the neck | Feb 13, 2015 |
I wish agencies and clients would understand and stop asking for references - it really serves no purpose. But they do, and I am placed in an awkward position. I don't like to ask for favours from my clients as it places me in under their obligation - not that my clients would mind, as I always provide them the best of service. But why trouble them unnecessarily?
In fact, I have been ticked off by one client whose reference I had given to another client. He told me while he valued m... See more I wish agencies and clients would understand and stop asking for references - it really serves no purpose. But they do, and I am placed in an awkward position. I don't like to ask for favours from my clients as it places me in under their obligation - not that my clients would mind, as I always provide them the best of service. But why trouble them unnecessarily?
In fact, I have been ticked off by one client whose reference I had given to another client. He told me while he valued my professionalism and good work, he had no sympathies with other agencies who were actually his competitors and hardly wanted to help them by sharing contacts of a good translator (that is me!) with them. Let them do their own research and find their translators themselves, he told me.
Another client whose reference I had given once wrote back asking whether I had given his reference and told me that while he would certainly give a good report, he found it an irritant to take time out of his busy schedule to deal with this kind of requests.
That is why I get very upset when someone asks me for references. Nowadays I choose someone who was placable and unlikely to take umbrage over such requests. These usually are clients for whom I have done some small work in some critical moment, and in most cases they are not best positioned to know me well enough to provide a proper reference. So this in any case defeats the whole purpose.
I also often refer incorrigible reference seekers to my proz.com profile page and request them to check up on the WMAs I have received. Some are satisfied with this and don't pester me any further.
But I think agencies should understand that this is unnecessary red tape and just a knee-jerk reaction on their part, sort of unthinkingly following protocol. It hardly helps them in determining the worth of a translator. It is much like demanding whether you are native in your target language, which hardly tells anyone anything unless backed up by many other facts.
I personally feel agencies should grow up and learn to evaluate translators in a more subtle manner than to depend on the word of unknown references. ▲ Collapse
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If they ask for references, I send them the link to my WWA here at Proz.com.
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I provide a link to my WWAs.
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| Word of mouth | Feb 13, 2015 |
Still can't beat the old word-of-mouth as a source of reference. Providing samples of my work is not much use to many clients. Even those with a reasonable level of understanding of English are not necessarily able to appreciate the difference between a genuine English rendering or a Frenchified version.
| | | | 564354352 (X)
Denmark
Local time: 12:37
Danish to English
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I've never understood the point in asking for / providing references.
Why would anybody who doesn't know me, but considers collaborating with me
1. Think that I would refer them to someone who would tell them anything remotely 'unhelpful' about me?
2. Believe the words of someone who would most likely be a complete stranger to them (the referee) over anything I would have told them?
It just doesn't make sense.
Besides, I believe th... See more I've never understood the point in asking for / providing references.
Why would anybody who doesn't know me, but considers collaborating with me
1. Think that I would refer them to someone who would tell them anything remotely 'unhelpful' about me?
2. Believe the words of someone who would most likely be a complete stranger to them (the referee) over anything I would have told them?
It just doesn't make sense.
Besides, I believe that asking clients to act as referees shifts the balance of equal partnership into a case of the client being a 'superior' and the translator being an 'inferior' business partner. And by succumbing to providing references to new potential business partners (read: agencies - end clients never seem to ask for references, because they are professionals like us), simply means that you agree with the agency and accept that this is the working relation you will have from day one. Well, that's just not for me... ▲ Collapse
| | | | ikeda45
Local time: 19:37
Member (2007)
English to Japanese
| In Japan, no. | Feb 14, 2015 |
It somehow reminds me of a scene from English dramas (you know, such as Downton Abbey) in which a maid or butler asking her/his master for a recommendation letter.
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