Off topic: Have we become CAT-addicts? Thread poster: Heinrich Pesch
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Heinrich Pesch 
Finland
Local time: 01:33
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
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I have been using now such tools for 10 years and use them even for small jobs. Always with the thought that maybe the customer will come back and then I have those segments waiting in the TM. When they send me a pdf the first thought is how to convert it into Word.
But yesterday I was sent a pdf of a magazine article with big images and all kind of text boxes on different shade of background colors. Text running across images, three columns of text, one graphic, and double pages. All tog... See more I have been using now such tools for 10 years and use them even for small jobs. Always with the thought that maybe the customer will come back and then I have those segments waiting in the TM. When they send me a pdf the first thought is how to convert it into Word.
But yesterday I was sent a pdf of a magazine article with big images and all kind of text boxes on different shade of background colors. Text running across images, three columns of text, one graphic, and double pages. All together 6 pages of text. Nothing could be grabbed and copied.
Finereader gave me an estimate of the text amount for quoting my rate, but otherwise the output was useless. It had mixed up the text completely. When the customer sent his confirmation I spent still one hour trying to scan it manually, then I gave up. Instead I translated the good old way reading from one screen and typing into Word on the other screen.
And I noticed it is so easy. No worry about wrong segmentation. Just translating. In between I put marks so that the reader can refer to the original and its images.
After all such projects will never come back to us. No need to save a TM. Most of those segments in our TMs will never come back again. Of course it's different with technical manuals, there the TM is very valuable. But hopefully I have learned a lesson and do not lose my time scanning complicated pdfs. ▲ Collapse
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Heinrich Pesch wrote:
And I noticed it is so easy. No worry about wrong segmentation. Just translating. In between I put marks so that the reader can refer to the original and its images.
That's why some categories of translators absolutely don't understand why one needs a CAT. They only have work of this kind. And clients do not give important press releases, newsletters, articles and legal documents to someone who insists on Word and who practices CAT prices, clearly indicating that he belongs to the price war category. I just translated a small audio file for a client - a CAT would have been completely useless. But young translators are unable to translate "on the fly".
The same is true for Powerpoint files. Here the content cannot be dissociated from the form. The worst thing clients can do is to give you slides in a presegmented file or a form which cannot be backconverted. The result is often a disaster. Working directly in a ppt file, understanding what they mean with their abbreviated sentences, going back to the previous page and expanding text boxes is much and much faster and satisfying than translating with a CAT, backconversion, repair, proofreading and backconversion again.
| | | | Neirda
China
Local time: 06:33
Chinese to French
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| Really that useful ? | Oct 12, 2012 |
I have never really used them.
By a client's request, I was once that close to actually get to it (it was a technical manual job), but I was turned down and this ended my very short history with CAT tools.
Are they really that useful/addictive ? I'm afraid the learning would be quite time consuming compared to what I would get in return.
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 00:33
Spanish to English
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| Some irredeemably | Oct 12, 2012 |
Yes, and I find it in turns sad and amusing. I had to bit my tongue the other day when someone was asking about how to make glossary inserts appear with an initial capital letter, which seemed to me the height of sloth. A quick glance at the never-ending list of technical issues and bugs on CAT forums is enough to highlight for me how the tech side is taking over from the art. Let's bring back chalk and slate!
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| That useful indeed | Oct 12, 2012 |
Neirda wrote:
Are they really that useful/addictive ?
The chance you'll get matches from other jobs for segments/sentence is negligible, and my main reason for always using a CAT tool isn't speed or laziness, but:
- You always work in the same environment, no distraction from file formats and formatting, and text is what matters
- You can easily - automatically even - look up how you solved problems in previous jobs
- You can use client or subject specific terminology that automatically prevails
- From within the CAT tool, you can use your MTs for segment, terminology databases, and glossaries/lexicons
- From within the CAT tool, you can do Internet searches
- From within the CAT tool, you can search your installed dictionaries
- Inconsistency within the text is virtually impossible
- Your translation is saved and searchable
- Just about all writing tools are now available in CAT tools, like check/fix spelling on the fly, thesaurus, add terms to user dictionary
- More, if you're not convinced yet…
Cheers,
Hans
| | | | Anna Haxen
Denmark
Local time: 00:33
Member (2005)
English to Danish
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| Maybe - but is it a problem? | Oct 12, 2012 |
I agree with Hans - especially the 'no distraction' bit. Also, using a CAT tool makes it virtually impossible to accidentally skip a sentence or part of a sentence, which is why I always use one even when I know that the TM will not be of any use in the future.
And at 47 I don't consider myself a young translator who is unable to translate 'on the fly'. It's just so much quicker and easier translating with a CAT tool as long as the source file format is compatible. If it isn't, most... See more I agree with Hans - especially the 'no distraction' bit. Also, using a CAT tool makes it virtually impossible to accidentally skip a sentence or part of a sentence, which is why I always use one even when I know that the TM will not be of any use in the future.
And at 47 I don't consider myself a young translator who is unable to translate 'on the fly'. It's just so much quicker and easier translating with a CAT tool as long as the source file format is compatible. If it isn't, most clients are able to convert it somehow and if they can't or won't you charge extra of course. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Anne Bohy
France
Local time: 00:33
English to French
| The only problem is... | Oct 12, 2012 |
when customers absolutely insist on getting discounts for repetitive texts, although the document format is not CAT-compatible.
In my opinion, there are formats which are compatible with CAT tools and others which are not.
If the customer insists on his discounts, then I charge a higher rate per word, to take into account the post-processing.
Other than that, I don't see why the translator wouldn't use what pleases him/her (including different CAT tools leading to the same re... See more when customers absolutely insist on getting discounts for repetitive texts, although the document format is not CAT-compatible.
In my opinion, there are formats which are compatible with CAT tools and others which are not.
If the customer insists on his discounts, then I charge a higher rate per word, to take into account the post-processing.
Other than that, I don't see why the translator wouldn't use what pleases him/her (including different CAT tools leading to the same required output format). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 00:33
French to English
| er why is this "off topic"? I was hoping for a joke! | Oct 12, 2012 |
and talking of distractions, Hans, that ant in your avatar made it impossible for me to concentrate on your post!
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Phil Hand
China
Local time: 06:33
Chinese to English
| Lack of distractions is my reason | Oct 12, 2012 |
I'm a bit take-it-or-leave-it on most CAT functions - I've done jobs where it's essential for maintaining consistency over dozens of documents, but for most jobs a simple vocab list would be just as useful.
What I do like is the format. As Meta said, it helps me to abstract the text away from its format and focus on the words only. Of course, you then have to edit for format afterwards, but I still find it's faster to work in CAT.
But every now and then I get jobs where... See more I'm a bit take-it-or-leave-it on most CAT functions - I've done jobs where it's essential for maintaining consistency over dozens of documents, but for most jobs a simple vocab list would be just as useful.
What I do like is the format. As Meta said, it helps me to abstract the text away from its format and focus on the words only. Of course, you then have to edit for format afterwards, but I still find it's faster to work in CAT.
But every now and then I get jobs where CAT is not worth the hassle, and working the old fashioned way is good, too.
[Edited at 2012-10-12 10:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Well, for good reason | Oct 12, 2012 |
I regularly get PDF files and often seriously consider typing them, even with my ten thumbs, so that I can use my CAT.
I rarely do it - but I miss the concordance and the glossary, and sometimes the fuzzy matches would be very useful too.
So yes, CATs are worth the effort of learning to use them, and I am enormously grateful if the agency sends a machine-readable file, even if I have to tidy it up.
And you would be surprised at what comes back... Deep down in my b... See more I regularly get PDF files and often seriously consider typing them, even with my ten thumbs, so that I can use my CAT.
I rarely do it - but I miss the concordance and the glossary, and sometimes the fuzzy matches would be very useful too.
So yes, CATs are worth the effort of learning to use them, and I am enormously grateful if the agency sends a machine-readable file, even if I have to tidy it up.
And you would be surprised at what comes back... Deep down in my big 'general' TM there are useful suggestions from way back.
Admittedly, there are also errors and things that are out of date, but I delete those immediately when I find them, and occasionally I systematically search for and replace or delete anything I know is wrong or obsolete.
Are we computer addicts? Are we e-mail addicts? we couldn't compete without them!
I am in favour of progress, having grown up with my father translating in much the same way as St. Jerome. However, even my father was 'addicted' to the telephone to consult colleagues, electric lighting when available, and a hand-operated duplicator to make copies of his Marathi texts.
Not to mention printed dictionaries and a 20th-century mail service and other facilities.
On the other hand, Jerome did a great job, and it is still in use. Someone has probably run it through Win-Align or a similar process...
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| | | | Allison Wright (X)
Portugal
Local time: 23:33
| Not quite a year down the line... | Oct 12, 2012 |
I have been using SDL Trados 2011 Starter Edition (and baulk every time at having to use a long fancy name for the cheapest product in the SDL range just for the sake of being specific!) for only ten months.
I was beginning to think that I was becoming addicted, then a few things happened:
- I translated at faster than my average hourly pace by writing my translation by hand from a print out of the source text in a very noisy hospital waiting room. The text was complex... See more I have been using SDL Trados 2011 Starter Edition (and baulk every time at having to use a long fancy name for the cheapest product in the SDL range just for the sake of being specific!) for only ten months.
I was beginning to think that I was becoming addicted, then a few things happened:
- I translated at faster than my average hourly pace by writing my translation by hand from a print out of the source text in a very noisy hospital waiting room. The text was complex in structure and full of those lovely German tapeworm sentences. When I got home (and "typed it up" in the CAT tool!) I was very pleased with the result, and made very few changes to my handwritten draft.
- The other recent experience which made me realise that I have not lost my "on the fly" touch was when I received several texts (each ▲ Collapse
| | | | Attila Piróth
France
Local time: 00:33
Member
English to Hungarian
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| Allison's full text | Oct 12, 2012 |
Allison Wright wrote: I have been using SDL Trados 2011 Starter Edition (and baulk every time at having to use a long fancy name for the cheapest product in the SDL range just for the sake of being specific!) for only ten months. I was beginning to think that I was becoming addicted, then a few things happened: - I translated at faster than my average hourly pace by writing my translation by hand from a print out of the source text in a very noisy hospital waiting room. The text was complex in structure and full of those lovely German tapeworm sentences. When I got home (and "typed it up" in the CAT tool!) I was very pleased with the result, and made very few changes to my handwritten draft. - The other recent experience which made me realise that I have not lost my "on the fly" touch was when I received several texts (each < 1,000 words) with the source texts in both German and Portuguese, which rendered the CAT tool useless. I dealt with thses paragraph by paragraph with the De, Pt and my En all on the screen in Word at the same time, and drew inspiration from both to produce the English version. I did a similar thing with a French source and Dutch source (not one of my languages, but useful nevertheless) about six months before that. - I also recently translated three pages of PDF scans by touch typing with the print outs to one side of the keyboard as we did in the very old days before we "invested" in paper holders or made our own. - When I am trying to sort out similar compound phrases from a terminological point of view, I still find myself reaching for a sheet of paper, and scribbling all possible source combinations down, then picking up a pen of a different colour, and writing in possible translation equivalents... I "involuntarily" translate adverts, slogans, headlines and public notices in my head - and then edit them. I might qualify for nuts, but addicted to the CAT tool? Not yet. I barely cope with inserting smileys, let alone CAT software. Tangential question: Do any of you ever hand write smileys?
(After "each" there is a "less than" sign that caused some problems.)
Attila
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Allison Wright (X)
Portugal
Local time: 23:33
| Some have become HTML experts | Oct 12, 2012 |
Attila Piróth wrote:
(After "each" there is a "less than" sign that caused some problems.)
Attila
Thank you, Attila! (Told you I was a techno-eejit!)
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 23:33
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Handwriting? That went out when CATs were still called Puss or Felix. | Oct 12, 2012 |
Allison Wright wrote: I barely cope with inserting smileys, let alone CAT software. Tangential question: Do any of you ever hand write smileys?
 I never handwrite my name if I can help it, let alone anything else. And I'm way down the Geek scale - right at the bottom, in fact.
But I can't see why anyone would say that young translators have lost the ability to "translate on the fly". OK, my CAT tool (Wordfast Classic) is useful, but it doesn't do any of the thinking for me, and only a small part of the remembering. Perhaps it's my specialisations of marketing and tourism that make the difference, but I rarely find that the tool does any of the translation for me. Fuzzy matches are quite rare and never attract discounts for my clients. However, it does impose a certain discipline and quality control (no missed sentences, no translations in the wrong places or source sentences left in the translation) and it's nice to be able to search the TM for terms I know I've translated before.
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