| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Off topic: Polish president among 96 killed in plane crash Thread poster: Magdalena Szewciów
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| thanks for condolences... | Apr 11, 2010 |
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| | | | | To the younger Polish colleagues... | Apr 11, 2010 |
... who only saw the recent political history of our country:
Look back to 1970s,and 1980s, read about the Workers' Defense Committee (KOR) and Solidarity and you will see who the Late Lech Kaczynski was. He was one of the most prominent figures in the struggle with the communiste regime. If you realise this and leave the current "tabloid stories', you will see him in the right perspective.
On the plane died Anna Walentynowicz - Mother of Solidarity.
... See more ... who only saw the recent political history of our country:
Look back to 1970s,and 1980s, read about the Workers' Defense Committee (KOR) and Solidarity and you will see who the Late Lech Kaczynski was. He was one of the most prominent figures in the struggle with the communiste regime. If you realise this and leave the current "tabloid stories', you will see him in the right perspective.
On the plane died Anna Walentynowicz - Mother of Solidarity.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/11/solidarity-anna-alentynowicz-air-crash-kaczynski
To many the word "Katyn" is a symbol of unbearable pain.
Yesterday (as planned), to commemorate the Katyn masscre, our TV shower the film 'Katyn" by Andrzej Wajda. 10 April 1940 appears in the film as the date of death
of Polish soldiers. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Russian reaction - Thank you | Apr 11, 2010 |
I am deeply moved by the Russian reaction. Thank you for all the help, support and sympathy. Both, the authority and just people on the streets solidarise with the Poles. Let's make it a new start in our countries' relations. It is high time to straighten them up.
There will be a national mourning day in Russia tomorrow.
Prime Minister Putin is personaly in charge of the investigation for the cause of the crash.
Moscow gives massive help for the families of the victims ... See more I am deeply moved by the Russian reaction. Thank you for all the help, support and sympathy. Both, the authority and just people on the streets solidarise with the Poles. Let's make it a new start in our countries' relations. It is high time to straighten them up.
There will be a national mourning day in Russia tomorrow.
Prime Minister Putin is personaly in charge of the investigation for the cause of the crash.
Moscow gives massive help for the families of the victims of this tragedy.
The film KATYŃ by Andrzej Wajda will be displayed today in Russia's national TV 'Rossija' in prime time...
Thank You Mr. Presindent, Thank You Mr. Prime Minister, Thank You Russia. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | sincere condolences | Apr 11, 2010 |
My sincere condolences to the whole Polish nation. My heart goes out to you.
Still, it is ironic how Poland should lose another part of its elite now, again on the Russian territory.
Sad, very sad ...
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| Thank you Szymon for mentioning it | Apr 11, 2010 |
Szymon Metkowski wrote:
I am deeply moved by the Russian reaction. Thank you for all the help, support and sympathy. Both, the authority and just people on the streets solidarise with the Poles. Let's make it a new start in our countries' relations. It is high time to straighten them up.
There will be a national mourning day in Russia tomorrow.
Prime Minister Putin is personaly in charge of the investigation for the cause of the crash.
Moscow gives massive help for the families of the victims of this tragedy.
The film KATYŃ by Andrzej Wajda will be displayed today in Russia's national TV 'Rossija' in prime time...
Thank You Mr. Presindent, Thank You Mr. Prime Minister, Thank You Russia.
I am really impressed - perhaps it could be the long awaited turning point in difficult relations between Poland and Russia. I am really moved by Russia's response to this tragedy.
It's so strange - Lech Kaczynski and many others on board of that unfortunate plane (Like for instance president of the Institute of National - Remembrance Jansz Kurtyka (http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/2/360/Janusz_Kurtyka_19602010.html)) did so much to convince Russian authorities to acknowledge Katyn massacre, and now their death contributes to it.
Thank You Russia
S
[Edited at 2010-04-11 13:24 GMT]
| | | | apk12 
Germany
Local time: 19:02
English to German
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| Unpopularity | Apr 11, 2010 |
Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote: apk12 wrote:
But yes, if following the forum, he seems to have been quite much loved, almost personally somehow. I'm surprised a bit, but that's how it looks like. Large family or a very fomal codex.
It's not like that. He was unpopular, especially among educated people. Who cares though?...
Excuse me, I do a bit. I am not that deep in Polish national politics right now so I couldn't count down a wider and more detailed full set of possible reasons off the top of my head, but his defending of death penalty... - the ban of the Christopher Street Day from the streets of Warsaw... or such funny reactions like refusing the meating with Merkel and Sarkozy because of having been called a "Potato" by a newspaper in an article, his demanding an official apologize from Merkel for this article (so, herewith revealing a quite visible striking attitude to press freedom), the declaration of neighbour countries to potential enemies as a national political strategy, - - there are many reasons to be a bit surprised about voices in a forum which do sound a bit like taken from a very emotional drama storyboard.
Braking news are braking news so I am not surprised that merkels condolence sentences quotations were repeated every hour yesterday, that the main broadcasting stations added news special stories to their programs, they live from braking news, alright. In fact, hardly a critical tone to be read or heard, everyone is concentrated on being shocked and contributing his/her condolence sentence. But - to be honest, this here is a forum, not an official politics tribune, so yes, here I am quite surprised.
If the threads really were talking about the pure fact of a plane tragedy, like every crash with more than 90 fatalities would be - ok. But it simply doesn't look like that.
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Veronica Lupascu wrote:
it does not look like a simple accident to me and i am familiar with Polish history. To many coincidences...
Do you see parallels with Rwanda in '94?
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apk12 wrote:
If the threads really were talking about the pure fact of a plane tragedy, like every crash with more than 90 fatalities would be - ok. But it simply doesn't look like that.
Then apparently you completely misunderstood this thread, because it is not about politics, and not about who-called-what and when and how, BUT about the pure human tragedy of this plane crash. So please try to respect this.
Just for the record - I did not vote for him, and I didn’t agree with many aspects of his politics, but today it does NOT matter, as it does not matter for many Polish people. If you cannot understand this and you are not able to pay respect to the people who are gone, at least, please do not offend them.
Ewa
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| in times like that there is no talk of politics | Apr 11, 2010 |
Evonymus (Ewa Kazmierczak) wrote:
because it is not about politics, and not about who-called-what and when and how, BUT about the pure human tragedy of this plane crash. So please try to respect this.
Please turn on the TV (foreign news, not Polish -- for an objective coverage) to see hundreds of thousands of people gathering to pay their respects to the late president Kaczyński. Not all of them his supporters. And that's about it.
[Edited at 2010-04-11 16:45 GMT]
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Michał Szcześniewski wrote: Evonymus (Ewa Kazmierczak) wrote:
because it is not about politics, and not about who-called-what and when and how, BUT about the pure human tragedy of this plane crash. So please try to respect this. Please turn on the TV (foreign news, not Polish -- for an objective coverage) to see hundreds of thousands of people gathering to pay their respects to the late president Kaczyński. Not all of them his supporters. And that's about it. [Edited at 2010-04-11 16:45 GMT]
I know and this what I was talking about. Ewa
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Evonymus (Ewa Kazmierczak) wrote: apk12 wrote:
If the threads really were talking about the pure fact of a plane tragedy, like every crash with more than 90 fatalities would be - ok. But it simply doesn't look like that.
Then apparently you completely misunderstood this thread, because it is not about politics, and not about who-called-what and when and how, BUT about the pure human tragedy of this plane crash. So please try to respect this. Just for the record - I did not vote for him, and I didn’t agree with many aspects of his politics, but today it does NOT matter, as it does not matter for many Polish people. If you cannot understand this and you are not able to pay respect to the people who are gone, at least, please do not offend them. Ewa
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| | | | | More than paying respect... | Apr 11, 2010 |
I do understand apk12’s astonishment. I think there is more to this mourning than paying respect to the head of state. As I can see it, this is also a kind of expiation. I am not sure if I can explain this, but let me try...
Even today, some people in Poland ostentatiously distance themselves from President Kaczynski’s political views, and when he was alive many demonstrated how strongly they disliked him and how much they were ashamed of him.
Why was that?
Un... See more I do understand apk12’s astonishment. I think there is more to this mourning than paying respect to the head of state. As I can see it, this is also a kind of expiation. I am not sure if I can explain this, but let me try...
Even today, some people in Poland ostentatiously distance themselves from President Kaczynski’s political views, and when he was alive many demonstrated how strongly they disliked him and how much they were ashamed of him.
Why was that?
Unfortunately, the majority of Polish media have never cared a bit about his political credo, which was to make Poland a country of law and justice, and a reliable but demanding partner for his allies.
For some reasons (to try to explain them I would need to take a little more of your time, so maybe some other time...), they were blind to his achievements, instead fully concentrating on his real or fabricated slip-ups and phobias, and thus making him an object of unprecedented mockery and attacks. Sadly, even educated people were unable or unwilling to sift the wheat from the chaff.
In fact, he was an honest man who lived up to his ideals and a great patriot who simply did not deserve such a treatment... I believe that most of us started to realize this only after his dead.
Today, when I see the enormous mob crowding on the streets of Warsaw, waiting for the opportunity to pay tribute to Him on the arrival of the coffin, I think THIS IS “focus on the President” and not just a tribute to the head of state (“stupid or intelligent” as somebody put it here) but also a fit of remorse... ▲ Collapse
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TCN6YR
Japan
Local time: 02:02
Russian to Japanese
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| Deepest condolence | Apr 11, 2010 |
The top of the country, large amount of victims, the place it occurred.....
| | | | TCN6YR
Japan
Local time: 02:02
Russian to Japanese
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| Rwandan Civil War | Apr 12, 2010 |
John Farebrother wrote: Veronica Lupascu wrote:
it does not look like a simple accident to me and i am familiar with Polish history. To many coincidences... Do you see parallels with Rwanda in '94?
Why have you put this? The Rwandan Civil War and the tragedy near the Katyn Forest this time are different subjects.
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We're bringing flowers to the Polish Embassy tomorrow.
We are all Polish today.
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