Dear Profile Visitor! Thread poster: Bernhard Sulzer
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I wish that more of the people visiting my profile (outsourcers, not-logged-in visitors, freelancers) would contact me and just let me know what they need, so I can tell them that I would gladly work with them for a decent (adequate!) rate. But then again, maybe many of them don't pay decent rates anyway because a) they don't want to (outsourcers, middlemen), b) can't pay it (outsourcers working in a vicious cycle of dissatisfied clients and translating/proofreading amateurs), c) there are plent... See more I wish that more of the people visiting my profile (outsourcers, not-logged-in visitors, freelancers) would contact me and just let me know what they need, so I can tell them that I would gladly work with them for a decent (adequate!) rate. But then again, maybe many of them don't pay decent rates anyway because a) they don't want to (outsourcers, middlemen), b) can't pay it (outsourcers working in a vicious cycle of dissatisfied clients and translating/proofreading amateurs), c) there are plenty of translating individuals who are happy to work for low rates, as long as they can (and when they fall off the cart, others are ready to take their place) or d) I charge too much and should lower my rates.
As far as d) is concerned, I am not doing it because I'm charging what is indeed a decent rate for what I can provide, and doing it would just be a fall to the bottom of the pit in any regard.
So, instead of complaining about the few serious contacts I've been getting over the years from here, I will, if given the chance, focus on telling prospective clients what it is they pay for and why it has to be a certain amount, otherwise I am in the wrong profession (and by the looks of today's low-rate market), maybe I am going to be soon.
Anyways, I just thought that it was interesting that not many of my profile visitors actually get in touch with me AFTER they've seen my profile. But the reasons for it might be listed above and that they somehow figure I charge too much. That's my only rational explanation - except I do state in my profile that the direct collaboration between translator and end-client is the best way to ensure top-quality results.
So what is it I want to know from the profile visitors:
Dear Profile Visitor!
Where do you go after you visited my page? Why did you not contact me? And who are you anyway and what are you really looking for?
Sincerely,
B
[Edited at 2015-01-17 17:25 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 23:45
Member (2007)
English
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| Just looking? | Jan 17, 2015 |
Just to report that I just looked at your profile, Bernhard. I never had any intention of giving you a job - just browsing, as it were. Maybe that's what a lot of our visitors are doing. Until they contact us they really need to remain non-starters, don't they? We don't (at least, I don't) have time to worry about all the might-have-beens.
| | | | Bernhard Sulzer
United States
Local time: 18:45
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER | Who are the chosen ProZ? | Jan 17, 2015 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Just to report that I just looked at your profile, Bernhard. I never had any intention of giving you a job - just browsing, as it were. Maybe that's what a lot of our visitors are doing. Until they contact us they really need to remain non-starters, don't they? We don't (at least, I don't) have time to worry about all the might-have-beens.
Hi Sheilah,
Thanks for your input. Just looking would be fine with me. But most are not just browsing I hold. So I am interested in the way this all works on this site. I mean we all call ourselves ProZ here. So who are the ProZ who are actually sought out by the many visitors on this site? We all know it's not easy being a successful translator. But every day, our business is impacted by what all of us represented here on ProZ.com do.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 00:45
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| Why people contact you | Jan 17, 2015 |
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
I just thought that it was interesting that not many of my profile visitors actually get in touch with me AFTER they've seen my profile.
I think people will contact you if they believe that you can possibly offer them what they're looking for. Before visiting any profiles, the client already decided what his requirements are, and he will be looking for information related to those requirements on the profile pages that he visits.
For example, if he decided that he wants an engineering specialist, he will scan the profile page quickly with his eyes for anything that hints as "engineer", and if he can't find that, he'll move on to the next profile. Your profile page does mention "engineering", but only in a secondary bullet point, and so the client may conclude that you're just an advertising translator with hopes to get engineering jobs.
Or, for example, the client may have decided that good translators usually have higher rates, and that he'll not consider any translator who charges less than e.g. USD 0.10 per word. When visiting your profile page, he scans it with his eyes to see what your rates are, but upon not finding any rates, he closes your profile page and moves on to the next one, because he's a busy client and he can't waste time contacting all translators who don't specifically fail his requirements.
The problem is that no profile page can comply with all potential clients' requirements, no matter how much we would like to have *those* particular clients.
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| Horses for courses | Jan 17, 2015 |
I suggest you worry less about what clients are not doing, and worry more about what you are not doing. If they visit your profile and subsequently choose not to contact you, it means you are not a good fit for them. For whatever reason.
If you have worked out what your USP is, where your clients are and how to contact them, and you are marketing yourself to the best of your ability, then I see no reason to worry. Channel your negative energy into reaching the people ... See more I suggest you worry less about what clients are not doing, and worry more about what you are not doing. If they visit your profile and subsequently choose not to contact you, it means you are not a good fit for them. For whatever reason.
If you have worked out what your USP is, where your clients are and how to contact them, and you are marketing yourself to the best of your ability, then I see no reason to worry. Channel your negative energy into reaching the people who count in terms of building your business. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Henry Hinds
United States
Local time: 16:45
English to Spanish
+ ...
In memoriam
A lot of people are just curious or browsing like it has been said. I often do it myself just to find out who's out there, including many who have nothing to do with my languages.
| | | | nrichy (X)
France
Local time: 00:45
French to Dutch
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| Don't overestimate the importance of your profile page/website | Jan 17, 2015 |
So what is it I want to know from the profile visitors:
Dear Profile Visitor!
Where do you go after you visited my page? Why did you not contact me? And who are you anyway and what are you really looking for?
Sincerely,
I am in the position where I am doing some training in the use of professional social media. From the moment one creates a profile page, he or she thinks that he is very important and that everybody will be interested in it. And will be flattered if there are visitors. This is an automatic behaviour, and why not. But don't overestimate. It's just like walking in the street and asking yourself "why do other people look at me". Well, without any reason. From the moment that you are asking yourself why they are interested, you're on the wrong way. They are simply there because you have a special keyword in your profile, or because they want to see why you wear a green shirt, or any other ridiculous reason you can't even imagine. I encountered people who became totally obsessed by visitors - "how does it come that this bearded old man is in my space", "my former boyfriend visited my profile seven times, what can I do against that" etc. One of these people, at a later stage (after asking the question "what can I do about it") was very angry at me (as a coach I answered him, and for this reason visited his profile page several times to see what could be wrong). After some time I found out that he was in a complicated separation procedure with his wife, thought that I wanted to take advantage of the situation and that these "repeated visits" were dishonest proposals. ... You can take for granted that 99% of the "visitors" are just accidents, and that from the remaining 1% only a small part is really interested in your services. And... just like in a tennis match, if 100 people are participating, only one can win.
Smile, you are being visited
| | | | Bernhard Sulzer
United States
Local time: 18:45
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Requirements for contact (don't underestimate what the profile does or does not do) | Jan 17, 2015 |
nrichy wrote:
So what is it I want to know from the profile visitors:
Dear Profile Visitor!
Where do you go after you visited my page? Why did you not contact me? And who are you anyway and what are you really looking for?
Sincerely,
I am in the position where I am doing some training in the use of professional social media. From the moment one creates a profile page, he or she thinks that he is very important and that everybody will be interested in it. And will be flattered if there are visitors. This is an automatic behaviour, and why not. But don't overestimate. It's just like walking in the street and asking yourself "why do other people look at me". Well, without any reason. From the moment that you are asking yourself why they are interested, you're on the wrong way. They are simply there because you have a special keyword in your profile, or because they want to see why you wear a green shirt, or any other ridiculous reason you can't even imagine. I encountered people who became totally obsessed by visitors - "how does it come that this bearded old man is in my space", "my former boyfriend visited my profile seven times, what can I do against that" etc. One of these people, at a later stage (after asking the question "what can I do about it") was very angry at me (as a coach I answered him, and for this reason visited his profile page several times to see what could be wrong). After some time I found out that he was in a complicated separation procedure with his wife, thought that I wanted to take advantage of the situation and that these "repeated visits" were dishonest proposals. ... You can take for granted that 99% of the "visitors" are just accidents, and that from the remaining 1% only a small part is really interested in your services. And... just like in a tennis match, if 100 people are participating, only one can win. Smile, you are being visited
I appreciate your sentiment. And in essence, that's what it comes down to. Today, only a very small group of people can be expected to do more than even visit my page. I have gotten a few (just a few) good contacts over the years, but lately, it has dried up even more.
However, it does depend on several other factors (besides coincidence) whether or not someone will visit your page. It's more likely when you are a Certified Pro and have enough KudoZ points because you are listed near the top in the directory (correct me please if I'm wrong). But that doesn't seem to lead to many contacts either. Non-paying member? Forget it. You're just visiting yourself.
Another factor: some visitors will come from outside, meaning they googled some criteria and then your Proz.com page came up in the search results, especially if people enter a desired location.
So, if all this is good, it's more likely that a) you are visited and b) that you are contacted (but if the profile doesn't meet the requirements as Samuel pointed out, forget it)!
To me, it comes down to what I said in the beginning: what are the criteria that you must fulfill to be contacted AFTER a visit to your profile page - I mean it seems some people here keep busy, and they either have enough contacts outside of Proz.com or indeed fulfill the requirements of the "visitors."
I don't agree that not being contacted has to do with fields of expertise and experience that a person DOESN'T have (I'm sure some of what I offer is interesting to some people) but that the main criteria revolve around money, plain and simple.
Too many people work for too little money. Not a good thing if you're trying to live a successful life as a professional translator IMHO.
Now, for me it means I get most of my work from somewhere else.
And yes, I cannot in any way overestimate the importance of my profile page.
And yes, I must not underestimate what I do outside of ProZ.com
[Edited at 2015-01-17 21:33 GMT]
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Frank Wong
Local time: 06:45
Chinese to English
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| bright side is | Jan 18, 2015 |
If one third of the visitors want to offer some jobs, you must be overloaded and overwhelmed.
In my case, I like checking visitor tag too. And sometimes my profile was visited dozens of times by certain visitors though, I never got contacted by them. My guess is these visitors may be Proz staffs who are doing their job to vet my profile for some reason. Is that possible?
[Edited at 2015-01-18 10:08 GMT]
| | | | | Destination focus | Jan 18, 2015 |
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
I wish that more of the people visiting my profile (outsourcers, not-logged-in visitors, freelancers) would contact me and just let me know what they need, so I can tell them that I would gladly work with them for a decent (adequate!) rate.
Bernhard,
Take me for an example. I "need" a reliable recipe for Paprika Schnitzel. My mother-in-law is from Berlin, a true kitchen master, but she doesn't know this specific one. My late mother, another kitchen master, who lived in Vienna for a few years, didn't know it either. My wife and I love PS at German restaurants, however the recipes I found on the web (all in English, of course) are so disparagingly different, that I can't imagine they could refer to the same thing.
Obvious conclusion: You (at least as a translator) DON'T want to know what I need.
Now I'm not saying that I'm right, but you may adopt this rationale below, if you like it.
My possibly overgrown web site has most of its pages subject-specific. So my profile on Proz (*much worse than yours, see below) basically lists the major services I offer, and provides direct links to their corresponding pages on my web site.
This means that if a visitor needs a video subtitled, they won't have to wade through, say, sworn translations in Brazil, or any other stuff that would be totally irrelevant at that very moment. With one click, they'll be reading material that addresses their immediate need.
If you want (though I didn't do it... yet), you may set up visit counters on the different sections of your web site, so you'll know which parts of your offer draw more interest or visitors. My host has a service that tells me on a month-to-date basis the 10 most frequent entry pages and the 10 most frequent exit pages.
It's like a tourist information center in any city. One wants gourmet dining, another wants roller-coaster rides, the attending clerk just has to hope that anyone using both will do it in the proper sequence to keep the city clean, but they'll provide specific directions only as requested. Most likely, the clerks there keep track of the most frequent requests, too.
The basic idea there is driving the visitor directly to what they need or want. If they want to know anything else, they can always go back and look for it.
*Regarding my previous comment, I am a certified ignorant in HTML. It took me half a day to get those links straight on my Proz profile. My web site was built using WebSiteX5, so I only have to care about content, not computer code.
[Edited at 2015-01-18 12:11 GMT]
| | | | | Business as usual | Jan 18, 2015 |
Occasionally, I have been approached by potential outsourcers who became steady customers.
Most of the time, nothing has happened.
I call it "business as usual".
If I feel I can do more than I am having at a certain point in time, I reach out potential customers and it pays off. "Visits to my profile" is just a bonus; if it turns into business; so much the better. If it does not, it does not.
[Edited at 2015-01-18 18:20 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 00:45
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Some people just want to buy something specific | Jan 18, 2015 |
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
I'm sure some of what I offer is interesting to some people...
Yes, that is the attitude of the classic sales person -- people don't go shopping because they know exactly what they need and will buy only what they need, but rather: people go shopping because they know more or less what they need, and they will buy whatever seems best at the time. This sort of person is the sales person's dream, because all he has to do is offer something "interesting", and the sale is halfway in the bag. If the sale doesn't go through, the sales person doesn't say to himself "the customer didn't want what I offered" but rather "the customer wasn't convinced by my offer". A good sale person always assumes that all people will always want his product, if he only sells it right.
I don't believe in that ideology, however. I think that many people know exactly what they need (or know what are the minimum requirements of their need), and will buy only something that fulfils the minimum requirements of their need. This means that the sales person will fail to get them to buy his product, no matter how "interesting" it is.
If a client wants a translation from English to Italian, you will not be able to convince him to buy a translation from English to German instead. And if the client's budget is 5c per word, you will not be able to convince him to pay 6c or 7c per word. If the client needs to have Trados files delivered to him, you will not be able to convince him to accept Wordfast files instead.
What's more, if you fail to mention what language you translate (gasp!), what your price is, or what CAT tool you can use, it will not matter how *interesting* anything else is that you're offering, if the client wants a certain language, a certain price, and a certain CAT tool.
The same principle applies to sending your CV/résumés to a job offers: if you don't have what the personnel officer thinks the job requires, then it doesn't matter how "interesting" you make your CV/résumé -- you will not be invited for an interview, unless it is for a creative wing-it type of job.
So, I disagree with you, and I repeat my point: a client will only consider contacting you if your profile page communicates to him immediately that you fulfil his specific requirements.
...the main criteria revolve around money, plain and simple.
The main criteria is language combination and type of service offered, but I think you're close: price is likely the next biggest criterium.
However, you seem to imply that clients will mostly select the cheapest translator, no matter how cheap he is, and I disagree with that. Instead, I think that clients will mostly select the cheapest translator that is no cheaper than the cheapest option that they believe will produce the quality that they require. Don't forget: at the back of their minds, clients know that more money means more quality.
For me it means I get most of my work from somewhere else.
If that is true, then why not gamble a bit, by adding some rates to your profile page? You can't lose much, but you can gain some.
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Bernhard Sulzer
United States
Local time: 18:45
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Samuel Murray wrote:
However, you seem to imply that clients will mostly select the cheapest translator, no matter how cheap he is, and I disagree with that. Instead, I think that clients will mostly select the cheapest translator that is no cheaper than the cheapest option that they believe will produce the quality that they require. Don't forget: at the back of their minds, clients know that more money means more quality.
So what is it that this cheap translator provides for cheap? The quality that they require? Who are they? The outsourcer? Would make sense, if we're talking "cheap."
But from what I see these cheapo outsourcers want - it is not a "cheap" or "poor" translation. Quite the opposite. They want good quality for the "best" rate. Better have lots of experience, degrees, and all verifiable. But most importantly, be cheap.
[Edited at 2015-01-18 22:10 GMT]
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