| Pages in topic: [1 2 3 4] > | Can someone touting for work afford to be rude? Thread poster: Tony M
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Tony M
France
Local time: 03:51
Member
French to English
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SITE LOCALIZER
I had a most unpleasant experience today, at the hands of another ProZ.com user.
This woman sent me an unsolicited mail, of the 'round robin' type, worded in such a way that I was immediately alienated: "...Dear Colleague,
we haven't been collaborating for a little while and I was wondering if you would be still interested by my translation and/or proofreading services?"
Now I have never "collaborated" with this person, and don't i... See more I had a most unpleasant experience today, at the hands of another ProZ.com user.
This woman sent me an unsolicited mail, of the 'round robin' type, worded in such a way that I was immediately alienated: "...Dear Colleague,
we haven't been collaborating for a little while and I was wondering if you would be still interested by my translation and/or proofreading services?"
Now I have never "collaborated" with this person, and don't in fact have any recollection of any previous communication from her: conclusion "pushy". But clearly I must have heard from her before, since she wrote direct to my work e-mail address.
I wrote back, perfectly politely, pointing out that her 4-page CV contained several flaws — including failing to state her mother tongue and working language pair — that I felt were hardly destined to encourage people to give her work; I also pointed out that the errors in the EN in her CV rather belied her claim to be "fluent" in EN; surely, even if ones mastery of a language is very good, it would be only sensible to get ones CV checked by a native speaker, given that it is clearly aimed at language professionals.
She reacted to this constructive criticism by telling me in her reply to delete her from my contacts.
I in turn replied and respectfully pointed out that as it was her original unsolicited mail that had dropped into my inbox, it was rather up to her to delete me from her contacts so as to avoid wasting my time in the future.
Here's the most unpleasant reply I got back:
"I don(t need YOU to give me advices and stupid comments, especially that your email contained also mistakes. YOU are WASTING MY TIME and your are pompous and pretentious!"
Now apart from the fact that this is not the sort of language or attitude I expect from a (supposed) fellow professional on a site like ProZ.com, it seems to me the sort of thing that is clearly counter-productive in terms of this person's marketing effort.
Surely the best way to react to constructive criticism would be to take it on board and act upon it to improve ones CV, and thence, ones chances of getting work? At worst, if one is of a sensitive disposition, one could simply ignore the message... but surely to reply, twice, in a negative way is really shooting oneself in the foot — not only would I now never dream of outsourcing to her any of the many requests I do get for this person's language pair, but I shall certainly not forget her churlish attitude should any further interactions occur on this or any other website.
In line with site rules, I shall of course not name this user here; but I shall be more than happy to do so to any person who cares to contact me privately.
Very disillusioned...
[Modifié le 2014-10-31 18:47 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Let it happen | Oct 31, 2014 |
Tony M wrote:
She reacted to this constructive criticism by telling me in her reply to delete me from my contacts.
I in turn replied and respectfully pointed out that as it was her original unsolicited mail that had dropped into my inbox, it was rather up to her to delete me from her contacts so as to avoid wasting my time in the future.
...
Very disillusioned...
Be happy with her/him deleting you from her/his contact list. Don't let this ruin your evening.
[Edited at 2014-10-31 21:53 GMT]
| | | | | There's now't so queer as folk | Oct 31, 2014 |
Step 1: Delete
Step 2: Block sender's e-mail address
Step 3: Move on - life's too short!
| | | | The Misha
Local time: 21:51
Russian to English
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| My hat's off to you for your patience and good manners. | Oct 31, 2014 |
Had something like that happened to me I sure wouldn't have been as considerate and polite.
As to being a fool as a marketing strategy, well... Decades ago, when the grass was still green, there was a legendary rocker back in the country of my birth (he is actually still around, albeit obviously past his prime) who had an old and well forgotten song - something to the effect of "today being the best day ever, today being the day we fight the fools". The lyrics then went on:
<... See more Had something like that happened to me I sure wouldn't have been as considerate and polite.
As to being a fool as a marketing strategy, well... Decades ago, when the grass was still green, there was a legendary rocker back in the country of my birth (he is actually still around, albeit obviously past his prime) who had an old and well forgotten song - something to the effect of "today being the best day ever, today being the day we fight the fools". The lyrics then went on:
Hand out rifles to your friends,
There's gotta be some braves amongst them.
Hand out rifles to your friends,
And then the fools will all be vanquished.
Something like this anyway. Whatever happened to those good old times...
[Edited at 2014-10-31 20:48 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| | | Can you improve perfection? | Nov 1, 2014 |
Tony M wrote:
I wrote back, perfectly politely, pointing out that her 4-page CV contained several flaws — including failing to state her mother tongue and working language pair — that I felt were hardly destined to encourage people to give her work; I also pointed out that the errors in the EN in her CV rather belied her claim to be "fluent" in EN; surely, even if ones mastery of a language is very good, it would be only sensible to get ones CV checked by a native speaker, given that it is clearly aimed at language professionals.
The truth hurts. But it must be told.
Tony M wrote:
I in turn replied and respectfully pointed out that
as it was her original unsolicited mail that had dropped into my inbox, it was rather up to her to delete me from her contacts so as to avoid wasting my time in the future.
Hah! Love it. And it made me laugh out loud.
Tony M wrote:
Surely the best way to react to constructive criticism would be to take it on board and ...
Yeah, you would think so. But nah, if you are convinced you're already perfect, there's nothing else you can do.
[Edited at 2014-11-01 01:38 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 03:51
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Who was being rude here? | Nov 1, 2014 |
Tony M wrote:
Now I have never "collaborated" with this person, and don't in fact have any recollection of any previous communication from her: conclusion "pushy".
That is an odd conclusion. A more appropriate conclusion would be: "template".
I wrote back, perfectly politely, pointing out that her 4-page CV contained several flaws...
The language in your reply may have been polite, but ask yourself: was your reply itself polite? Very few people take kindly to unsolicited criticism (no matter how constructive or neutral the critic may try to make it appear).
She reacted to this constructive criticism by telling me in her reply to delete her from my contacts. ... I in turn replied and respectfully pointed out that as it was her original unsolicited mail that had dropped into my inbox, it was rather up to her to delete me from her contacts so as to avoid wasting my time in the future.
Surely you didn't think that this conversation was leading to anything good, did you? It does not matter if you characterise your reply as "respectful" -- it was a rude reply as a whole. It is a reply that is clearly aimed at escalating the situation, even if it contains the word "respectfully".
Here's the most unpleasant reply I got back: "I don(t need YOU to give me advices and stupid comments, especially that your email contained also mistakes. YOU are WASTING MY TIME and your are pompous and pretentious!"
This would be an opportunity to take another good look at your e-mails and discover how something that you wrote with a friendly intention could be construed as pompous and pretentious by the recipient. Remember, your kind attitude (which exists only in your own mind while you write the e-mail) is not transferred along with the e-mail to the recipient.
It seems to me the sort of thing that is clearly counter-productive in terms of this person's marketing effort.
She is clearly agitated by the fact that you keep bugging her, despite her formal, neutral request that you remove her from your contact list (she is in your contact list now, isn't she?).
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:51
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Better not to respond at all | Nov 1, 2014 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
The language in your reply may have been polite, but ask yourself: was your reply itself polite? Very few people take kindly to unsolicited criticism (no matter how constructive or neutral the critic may try to make it appear).
I'm siding with Samuel on this one. Unsolicited ProZ messages from outsourcers and other members is a fact of life, a very specific form of spam related to the work we do. If it contains nothing of interest the best way to deal with it is simply to not respond.
To reply with unsolicited criticism is likely to inflame the situation - and that's exactly what happened.
Was the person who sent the email unprofessional to lose her cool so obviously? I would say that she was, but when you're dealing with people you don't know you must expect the unexpected.
By responding to the message as he did the original poster escalated the situation and embroiled himself in an unpleasant little fracas and made himself unhappy. If you have to respond, make your rejection as anodyne as possible.
When in doubt, delete silently and forget it. Life is too short, really.
Regards
Dan
[Edited at 2014-11-01 09:05 GMT]
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| It's good that you didn't name the person here | Nov 1, 2014 |
That would just be vindictive and serve no useful purpose.
There are two sides to every story, and we haven't heard hers.
[Edited at 2014-11-01 09:33 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 03:51
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| On how others perceive our politeness | Nov 1, 2014 |
Elizabeth Tamblin wrote:
There are two sides to every story, and we haven't heard hers.
We may never hear it, but I think Tony's description of it can be relied upon.
We don't always know how our writing is interpreted by others. I myself have received words of praise and thanks for what I write here, and at the same time other people have said that they find my writing obtuse. Recently, on a mailing list, I was labelled "consistently rude, aggressive, abrasive, and disparaging" by a group of three people, which came as a surprise to me, because other people on that same list often write to my privately to thank me for my insights.
The sad fact is that while electronic communication on forums and e-mails is mostly conversational, it comes without all the non-verbal clues that usually go with conversations, and is actually quite frail.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:51
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Q. "Can someone touting for work afford to be rude?"
A. Nobody can ever afford to be rude.
There are a lot of people out there, harbouring all kinds of resentments that they feel free to vent on the Internet - but never anywhere else.
[Edited at 2014-11-01 10:03 GMT]
| | | | Eric CM
Czech Republic
Local time: 03:51
English to Italian
+ ...
| I guess I'm an oddball | Nov 1, 2014 |
Dan Lucas wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
The language in your reply may have been polite, but ask yourself: was your reply itself polite? Very few people take kindly to unsolicited criticism (no matter how constructive or neutral the critic may try to make it appear). I'm siding with Samuel on this one. Unsolicited ProZ messages from outsourcers and other members is a fact of life, a very specific form of spam related to the work we do. If it contains nothing of interest the best way to deal with it is simply to not respond. To reply with unsolicited criticism is likely to inflame the situation - and that's exactly what happened. Was the person who sent the email unprofessional to lose her cool so obviously? I would say that she was, but when you're dealing with people you don't know you must expect the unexpected. By responding to the message as he did the original poster escalated the situation and embroiled himself in an unpleasant little fracas and made himself unhappy. If you have to respond, make your rejection as anodyne as possible. When in doubt, delete silently and forget it. Life is too short, really. Regards Dan [Edited at 2014-11-01 09:05 GMT]
When I send a message to someone I expect a reply. To me, not replying at all is actually quite rude. It's worse than giving me an answer, even a negative one. It means that I'm not even worthy 5 minutes of your time.
His criticism was unsolicited, but so was her initial contact. Unsolicited messages are a fact of life. And criticism (polite or not, constructive or not) is also a fact of life.
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Kirsten Bodart
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:51
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Unsolicited advertising - so-called spam | Nov 1, 2014 |
is annoying, but unless it is from an unidentified source (like PPI reclaim), I'd never be the one to send unsolicited email back pointing out mistakes. That's just pedantic and vindictive. Serves no purpose. Only upsets you more (as you have just proven).
At any rate do you actually have time for proofreading a 4-page CV just for the heck of it?
You could have billed her for your trouble?
| | | | | That's exactly what I do! | Nov 1, 2014 |
Robin Levey wrote:
Step 1: Delete
Step 2: Block sender's e-mail address
Step 3: Move on - life's too short!
I don't have time nor mind to read unsolicited email messages...
| | | | | Criticism is helpful | Nov 1, 2014 |
The OP was being helpful by pointing out the problems he found in an unsolicited aplication. He gave the other colleague an opportunity to improve her professional presentation.
What is vindictive about that?
If someone criticizes us, it gives us a welcome chance to receive someone else's opinion about ourselves. We all know about the many, many blind spots that keep us from improving ourselves - unless someone else calls our attention to them. Doesn't mean we have to a... See more The OP was being helpful by pointing out the problems he found in an unsolicited aplication. He gave the other colleague an opportunity to improve her professional presentation.
What is vindictive about that?
If someone criticizes us, it gives us a welcome chance to receive someone else's opinion about ourselves. We all know about the many, many blind spots that keep us from improving ourselves - unless someone else calls our attention to them. Doesn't mean we have to agree with every criticism, but we might just take the opportunity to check whether our presentation is really as professional as we think it is... ▲ Collapse
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