| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] | Can someone touting for work afford to be rude? Thread poster: Tony M
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Tony M
France
Local time: 23:59
Member
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER SITE LOCALIZER | As requested by Elizabeth... | Nov 3, 2014 |
Elizabeth Tamblin wrote:
Post your response to her here, Tony, as you quoted parts of her email. Let us see exactly what you wrote, and then we'll be in a better position to judge the tone of your message.
Fair enough, I was prepared to send it privately to anyone who requested it, but as you have asked, here it is:
Dear [christian name, as used in her signoff]
Thank you for your message. We haven't had the pleasure of working together in the past, but I do occasionally receive enquiries for EN > FR translations that I can't handle, and will bear you in mind.
I have to say that your CV doesn't really present a very good picture of you; for a start, it is way too long, and I got bored long before I'd finished reading everything. CVs are one of those situations where "less is more", and you could do well to use it to demonstrate your ability to prioritize and organize ideas.
Also, you do not actually state that you translate from English into your native French — this is the only way round that is to be recommended in a professional context, and is certainly well worth emphasizing early on in your CV. When I didn't see that information right at the start, I very nearly stopped reading at once.
It also has to be said that the errors in your English do rather belie your claim to have "fluent English"; if your English really is as good as you claim, then you certainly ought to have been able to correct these errors. Furthermore, the imperfect page layout of your CV again rather gives the lie to your claimed experience as a secretary, since again you have made elementary mistakes that no self-respecting typist would make.
All in all, I have to say that the all-important "first impression" conveyed to me by your CV does not inspire me to give you any work.
I do hope this constructive feedback will be helpful to you in your future prospecting, and look forward to being in touch should I receive any requests that I think you might be able to handle.
Kind regards
Tony Marsden
| | | | Tony M
France
Local time: 23:59
Member
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER SITE LOCALIZER | P/G is being a little harsh :-( | Nov 3, 2014 |
polyglot45 wrote:
I hope I never achieve that status because one of the main signs is a tendency to pontificate and even teach grandmothers to suck eggs.
Oh dear, you have cut me to the quick! I certainly work very hard not to "pontificate", let alone instruct any (non-gender-specific) elderly relatives in the art of egg-sucking.
The very thought of that "elder statesman" label you evoke fills me with loathing and horror.
Yet the truth is that practically every week, I receive lovely messages from newer (possibly less experienced?) members of the site, asking for tips, advice, and often enough, mentoring. I find this utterly amazing, and very flattering, and I am only too happy to help out in whatever small ways I can.
I have also on occasion found myself in the position of having to give rather hard-hitting negative feedback (solicited!); in almost all cases, people have thanked me for "telling it like it is" and helping them to review their techniques or whatever.
So I guess I'll just shut up, stop bothering to try and help people, and crawl back into my little hole to caress "My preciousss".
| | | | | Thanks, Tony! | Nov 3, 2014 |
It's interesting to see that. It is indeed very politely phrased - not that I doubted you for a second.
| | | | Kay Denney 
France
Local time: 23:59
French to English
| Never give advice | Nov 4, 2014 |
I think Polyglot is just saying the same as me albeit perhaps more directly.
Helping people is great, Tony, it's good for you as well as the person you are helping, so don't crawl into that cave just yet!
My personal rule is to never give advice. Even when solicited. People only ever follow advice if they were already planning to do something along those lines anyway.
I might make a gentle s... See more I think Polyglot is just saying the same as me albeit perhaps more directly.
Helping people is great, Tony, it's good for you as well as the person you are helping, so don't crawl into that cave just yet!
My personal rule is to never give advice. Even when solicited. People only ever follow advice if they were already planning to do something along those lines anyway.
I might make a gentle suggestion or two, say what I personally would do or have done in similar situations, and I certainly provide whatever information I might have which could help the asker reach the same conclusion as me. That is mostly all the help anyone wants, and it empowers them to make up their own informed opinion.
The difference between giving advice and giving information + making gentle suggestions may be subtle but it hugely impacts the receiver's perception of you, which in turn impacts whether they will consider what you're saying seriously or not.
Does that make sense to you, Tony? ▲ Collapse
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 17:59
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| The probability is 95% or above that the original email the OP received was from a scammer | Nov 4, 2014 |
why bother even replying at all?
If it were me, I would have written a reply (if any) this way:
Stop using the CV that belongs to someone else, and stop sending me fake emails.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:59
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Texte Style wrote:
My personal rule is to never give advice. Even when solicited.
Very wise, at least 90% of the time. I like Mary Schmich's take:
"Advice is a form of nostalgia. Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth."
I think everybody above a certain level of age and experience has been guilty of that at some point.
Dan
| | | | | Never attempt to teach a pig to sing | Nov 4, 2014 |
Tony, I have nothing personal against you but I think you deserved to be called "pompous" and should have expected this backlash. This woman is obviously not well-mannered/very mature (and doesn't sound very competent either), but if you really think your e-mail reads like a purely objective and altruistic constructive feedback from peer to peer, you are mistaken!
It's not so much the (perceived) tone of voice itself which is a problem but:
- First, the way you labored ... See more Tony, I have nothing personal against you but I think you deserved to be called "pompous" and should have expected this backlash. This woman is obviously not well-mannered/very mature (and doesn't sound very competent either), but if you really think your e-mail reads like a purely objective and altruistic constructive feedback from peer to peer, you are mistaken!
It's not so much the (perceived) tone of voice itself which is a problem but:
- First, the way you labored the point (= "lectured" her, precisely) as if you were addressing someone clearly inferior in knowledge, for example a young graduate starting out (admittedly, she's made gross mistakes, but she's not completely dumb!);
- Second, the fact that some remarks are judgmental while some others sound borderline sarcastic (or at least provocative);
- Third, the tone is a bit pedantic (I understand you like fine words and neat communication like any self-respecting linguist but epistolary mannerism is not a way to demonstrate equal-to-equalness);
- Fourth, what appears to be unconcealed hypocrisy: You debunk her CV but somehow you still manage to say you will bear her in mind if you have opportunities... (???)
To me, the two takeaways for you are:
- Make sure you don't sound pompous (as exemplified by the 4 bias types above) when giving feedback if you don't want to run the risk of a backlash (which, btw, is not so dramatic). Put otherwise, make sure what you say sounds like your "modest layman's opinion" (e.g. "when it comes to CVs, as an outsourcer I personally / for one think that "less is more" because... / don't you think that "less is more" in this crazy-busy world?, etc. - the importance of emphasizing that it's only your modest view was all the more so important in this particular example as there are people who see it otherwise and think it's better to have more material to make up one's mind).
- Make sure circumstances are favorable before giving unsolicited feedback. (IMHO, you shoud also make sure the person deserves it/deserves to be given a shortcut in experience/shows some goodwill).
(As a reminder, why not using smileys too (as explained earlier)? Perphaps if you had added this lil'face  or this one  after "I got bored reading your CV" she would have reacted differently and thanked you for your time, solicitude and insightful comments.
FINALLY, I think I've a good quote to sum up this case:
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing - it only wastes your time and annoys the pig.
This madam is not a pig and may be respectable in all regards, but with so many signs of a lack of professionalism, it's probable she's simply not interested in being professional (her excessive answer to what were very useful comments proved it).
Move on, learn the lesson, and please keep giving feedback and helping others selflessly as you are used to doing! With more and more individualistic egos on this planet, it's good to read what you do! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jessica Noyes
United States
Local time: 17:59
Member
Spanish to English
+ ...
I once received a CV that contained a few rather glaring errors. In my response I told her that I did not outsource, so could not provide any work. However, I would be glad to point out some places in her CV where her English could be improved. I told her just to let me know that she was interested, and I would make a few suggestions. She wrote back, slightly embarrassed (although she did not work into English), and asked for my input. I sent her back the CV with tracked changes, and she replied... See more I once received a CV that contained a few rather glaring errors. In my response I told her that I did not outsource, so could not provide any work. However, I would be glad to point out some places in her CV where her English could be improved. I told her just to let me know that she was interested, and I would make a few suggestions. She wrote back, slightly embarrassed (although she did not work into English), and asked for my input. I sent her back the CV with tracked changes, and she replied with profuse thanks. I think the fact that I offered the assistance, and she accepted, made all the difference in the world. ▲ Collapse
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| More wry smiling | Nov 4, 2014 |
Ah, truly this thread keeps on delivering. After the grin that broke out over the weekend (see previous page), now I'm smiling about all the advice being given not to offer advice (even when given another name, that is essentially all it is, taken in this context). It is, admittedly, a conundrum, possibly even a paradox.
I had a similar problem a while back. I wanted to make the point that, in general, generalisations are generally wrong. Which is itself a generalisation, of course.... See more Ah, truly this thread keeps on delivering. After the grin that broke out over the weekend (see previous page), now I'm smiling about all the advice being given not to offer advice (even when given another name, that is essentially all it is, taken in this context). It is, admittedly, a conundrum, possibly even a paradox.
I had a similar problem a while back. I wanted to make the point that, in general, generalisations are generally wrong. Which is itself a generalisation, of course. My head nearly exploded wrestling with that one. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 23:59
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Attaboy Tony ... | Nov 4, 2014 |
... she'll certainly clean up her act after the well-intentioned what-for you gave her. Which, in the end, is what she needs to do, isn't it?
And she should thank her lucky stars she didn't write one of those "Can anyone give me some feedback on my CV/blog/website?" posts here. Just think of the torrent of mouth-frothing rage that would have brought on from the knife-sharpening hordes.
I think your only mistake - bar the apostrophes, har - was to reply to her again. If... See more ... she'll certainly clean up her act after the well-intentioned what-for you gave her. Which, in the end, is what she needs to do, isn't it?
And she should thank her lucky stars she didn't write one of those "Can anyone give me some feedback on my CV/blog/website?" posts here. Just think of the torrent of mouth-frothing rage that would have brought on from the knife-sharpening hordes.
I think your only mistake - bar the apostrophes, har - was to reply to her again. If memory serves me, the best reply in such situations is no reply at all, otherwise you're giving her an importance she doesn't deserve.
Best,
Mervyn ▲ Collapse
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