| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11] > | Blast your CV to 16000 Agencies? Has anyone tried it? Thread poster: Silvia M.
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Nicola Rizzo
Italy
Local time: 10:46
Member (2011)
German to Italian
+ ...
| positive experience | May 30, 2013 |
Hi to all, I used the service offered by Karel and I must say I'm 100% satisfied. I received lots of positive feedback and new customers so it definitely helped me expanding my business, acquiring new clients, etc. And rates are set by me when contacting customers, not by marketing service.
| | | | Karel Kosman 
Czech Republic
Local time: 10:46
Czech to English
+ ...
wasn't comparing translators with construction workers but simply for reference to show the prices in general, and a hundred bucks definitely goes a long way there, no matter what one is doing. I don't know the details of pension etc, but I'm sure my friend gave them 25 lev in cash at the end of the day and the deal was done and finished, with no complaints. Bulgaria is probably like Russia, which gets 70% of their food from their backyard, and people are good at taking care of themselves, but I... See more wasn't comparing translators with construction workers but simply for reference to show the prices in general, and a hundred bucks definitely goes a long way there, no matter what one is doing. I don't know the details of pension etc, but I'm sure my friend gave them 25 lev in cash at the end of the day and the deal was done and finished, with no complaints. Bulgaria is probably like Russia, which gets 70% of their food from their backyard, and people are good at taking care of themselves, but I really don't know details of the other stuff you mentioned. I myself have never paid into retirement (never believed in the system) and have given up on health insurance since I discovered that the only health insurance card they're interested from foreigners here in Asia are credit cards, and the hospitals come with their own bank machines. But that's a separate issue. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 10:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Just piping up as well | May 30, 2013 |
Stanislav Pokorny wrote: Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote: Karel Kosman wrote:
I know that Bulgaria has the lowest wages and prices in Europe, and 0.04 makes actually a good living there. When I lived for 15 years in Prague I was not able to charge more than the standard $0.05/target word, but many charged less than me, some more. So assuming a translator's average output of 2500 words a day, is $100/day (i.e. €77 +/-) really a good living wage in Bulgaria? Will this pay you enough to cover accommodation costs, utility bills, taxes, living expenses, healthcare, sick pay, holiday pay, pension etc? Don't know about Bulgaria, but you could definitely live from that in the Czech Rep. In fact, I used to earn about a half of that as a secondary-school teacher (with my 12 hrs/month overtime).
My gross salary (including health care, pension fund, taxes etc) when I was a salaried translator in 2006 (yes, some time ago) in South Africa was about EUR 50.00 per day (i.e. EUR 1000 a month), and it was considered a reasonable salary for someone with my qualifications.
| | | | Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 01:46
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
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| Unsolicited CV's | May 30, 2013 |
If these agencies are so interested in receiving unsolicited CV's, why is it necessary to "blast" them to 16000 agencies. Sounds like spam to me.
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Karel Kosman
Czech Republic
Local time: 10:46
Czech to English
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| 16,000, whatever number | May 30, 2013 |
Because there is strength in numbers when looking for work, simple as that. Look at the results instead of being constantly obsessed with this number. With every sendout roughly one or two unsubscribe. Nothing to continually rave on about.
| | | | kchansen
Local time: 10:46
English to Danish
| I wouldn't use this service... | May 30, 2013 |
With the many cases of identity theft, I wouldn't risk sending my personal information (CV) to somebody I don't know so they can forward it to 16,000 agencies I don't know, most of which have no interest in my service.
I translate English -> Danish. How many agencies have jobs in that particular language combination? Not 16,000, that's for certain. The 15,000 or so agencies that have no use for my service don't need my CV, and would probably just be annoyed to receive it.
... See more With the many cases of identity theft, I wouldn't risk sending my personal information (CV) to somebody I don't know so they can forward it to 16,000 agencies I don't know, most of which have no interest in my service.
I translate English -> Danish. How many agencies have jobs in that particular language combination? Not 16,000, that's for certain. The 15,000 or so agencies that have no use for my service don't need my CV, and would probably just be annoyed to receive it.
There are two ways of marketing yourself. One is targeted marketing to clients which you know can use your services. The other is the shotgun approach: Shoot pellets all over the place and hope at least some of them hit a target. The first one I can do better myself; the other I consider a waste of my money and other peoples' time. And yes, I do really consider it "spamming" to send a CV to 16,000 random people!
As for the "Unsubscribe" button in your emails, please remember that it is common practice for spammers to add an "Unsubscribe" link in their messages. But if you click that link, it only tells the spammer that you email address is alive, and you are guaranteed to receive even more spam. So my gut reaction would be to NOT click an "Unsubscribe" link in a message I consider to be spam!
[Edited at 2013-05-30 19:05 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Karel Kosman
Czech Republic
Local time: 10:46
Czech to English
+ ...
| language combinations | May 31, 2013 |
I always insist that the subject of the sendouts include the language combination(s) and preferably price as well, so that the recipient can quickly tell if they want to open and read further. Now I have started to mark the subject with [TA:] or something, so they can begin to recognize them coming from my service. Not long ago I've set up fields where recipients can choose which language combinations they are interested in, make a special comment and which country they are located in, to help w... See more I always insist that the subject of the sendouts include the language combination(s) and preferably price as well, so that the recipient can quickly tell if they want to open and read further. Now I have started to mark the subject with [TA:] or something, so they can begin to recognize them coming from my service. Not long ago I've set up fields where recipients can choose which language combinations they are interested in, make a special comment and which country they are located in, to help with custom sending (choice by recipient and sender alike), but very few have actually filled in this information, so a long term project. Yes, it is indiscriminate for now, but it works. You can spend lots of time making custom approaches, perhaps in conjunction with this, but the system simply works and I have been making improvements over the years, cleaning up the list and so forth (short of 100 email addresses have unsubscribed or been cleaned out over a period of roughly two years – most of them within the first few months of purchasing the last list). Custom sendings are possible too, such as to remove existing customers, country domains, send out in smaller lots instead of all at once, and so forth. So I'm slowly improving it, and it is a good idea to market yourself in different ways; this one simply brings worthwhile benefits, even though it is not perfect.
Now that I hired a marketing company to rewrite the page (seems a bit too aggressive to me but we're trying A/B testing and all that) my thoughts are, after all these discussions, that I should remove the word "blast" and reduce the number to something more believable. The custom option will have to be developed over time. Anyway, it works and I'm continually improving it. I think a lot of the backlash is because of the spamming attacks. Actually, when expanding the list I once purchased a package from ebay. Sounded good but once downloaded I noticed a lot of in-house duplications, based on same domains with different addresses, obviously to different people working within the same organisation. It seemed like someone had used a script to farm the internet for email addresses of any website which scored a certain rank in the keyword "translation" or "translating" etc. I cleaned up what I could and got into a conversation with some others who had purchased it and recipients who both complained of the inhouse duplications. I've always felt it not right to actually sell my list, even though I've been given offers, so I rounded up those I was discussing with to successfully throw that person off ebay (sure, I'll admit, eliminating the competition was a motivation too). But I guess during the time they made so many sales it got into some bad hands and now we have this problem, which is obviously affecting my service as well, since many are justifiably peeved by the recent attack. I know the list is not perfect, am making modifications based on feedback or discussions like these, and working towards improving it, but it simply works and is a cost effective means to increase your client base. Personally, I do not feel an existing customer will be overly perturbed to receive your application, but some do insist on making custom changes and everything is possible. I do see your point about not wanting to press the unsubscribe link though, but I myself readily press those (my system can blacklist email addresses or domains, so I can afford to take the risk) and generally find that the senders respect it and I do not suffer additional spam (although Amazon seems to ignore my unsubscriptions). Maybe with my new way of marking the subject, and the existing way of being fully transparent in each email, it will be easier to unsubscribe, but at two unsubsciptions per sendout and the success the senders receive means to me that it is good, albeit room for improvement. New recipients are also continually subscribing, and I'll keep working on improving it. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Norskpro
Norway
Local time: 10:46
Member
English to Norwegian
+ ...
Karel, you are saying that your blasts work, and you have many positive testimonials. It would be interesting to know how many people have bought your blasting service.
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Shai Navé
Israel
Local time: 11:46
English to Hebrew
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| Re-suggesting and a question | May 31, 2013 |
Karel,
Thank you again for your honesty, but there is one thing that you seem to take too lightly.
Yes, the (not so) recent incline in Spam and fraudulent activity did have an effect on your service because both you and them use the same basic method.
You have already clarified in this discussion that your service is not Spam, and that you put a lot of effort into differentiating yourself from the spammers. I think that we have also established that the legal definition of Spam... See more Karel,
Thank you again for your honesty, but there is one thing that you seem to take too lightly.
Yes, the (not so) recent incline in Spam and fraudulent activity did have an effect on your service because both you and them use the same basic method.
You have already clarified in this discussion that your service is not Spam, and that you put a lot of effort into differentiating yourself from the spammers. I think that we have also established that the legal definition of Spam varies between countries, but even more importantly, it varies between individuals. Here we reach to the point that you seem to take too lightly. You need to understand that the contact details of many agencies and independent translators were harvested, and as a results are flooded with scams, frauds, and just plain old Spam, without ever wanting to receive this. Some of them may or may not be in you list. The main problem with services such as yours is not the value, because different people see it differently and operate in different ways, and work in different market segments and therefore there are too many variables to account for, but the method through which is it carried out. A simple unsubscribe link is just not enough.
Therefore, I still stand by my suggestion for an annual dedicated remainder that will allow anyone who was added to your list by mistake to opt-out. Plain, simple, and fair to all parties involved.
@To all the list users.
This is a relatively picky kind of a question so feel free not to answer. So here goes:
Out of curiosity, how long are you into your translation career? Do you work in specialized fields or more of Jacks-and-Jills-of-all-trades?
You have reported that on top of getting requests to fill out some forms, you also got actual work.
Would you define this work as quality work, or more of a quantity on the account of quality type of work? Have there been instances in which you found yourself reducing your rates and/or accepting terms that you are not comfortable with in order to get that work? Or in other words, out of all the connections that you have made through this service, what percentage would you classify as quality, what percentage would you classify as 'potential', and what percetnage would classify as low quality (offers and connections that you didn't go through with becasue they were sub par by your standards).
Thank you, and again, if you are uncomfortable with any of the above questions, please feel free to ignore them. I don't mean to pick, I'm just curious. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 10:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| One year from now | May 31, 2013 |
Shai Nave wrote:
Therefore, I still stand by my suggestion for an annual dedicated remainder that will allow anyone who was added to your list by mistake to opt-out. Plain, simple, and fair to all parties involved.
It is a good suggestion. An e-mail whose subject line is "Reminder: you are on my mailing list" would certainly be read by some people.
But... on the other hand I suspect that in one year's time we'll have this same discussion in these forums and then Karel will say everything that he had said, PLUS that he sends a yearly reminder, and people who oppose him will scream, as always, "But that is simply not enough!".
| | | | Shai Navé
Israel
Local time: 11:46
English to Hebrew
+ ...
| It is not the same thing, at all! | May 31, 2013 |
Samuel,
Sure, some will not bother to opt-out, but then they will not have a reason to complain, will they?
It is not the same thing as adding a link at the bottom of an email that many suspect to be Spam. When you suspect something to be Spam or a scam you are not scanning it to notice any links, and even if you do, you are not very inclined to click them for security reasons.
A dedicated remainder with the name of the list (so people could search it and arrive at the w... See more Samuel,
Sure, some will not bother to opt-out, but then they will not have a reason to complain, will they?
It is not the same thing as adding a link at the bottom of an email that many suspect to be Spam. When you suspect something to be Spam or a scam you are not scanning it to notice any links, and even if you do, you are not very inclined to click them for security reasons.
A dedicated remainder with the name of the list (so people could search it and arrive at the website in which I think there should also be a notice about how to unsubscribe by contacting the list provider), an explanation about what is this list, the purpose of this remainder, and an unsubscribe link, is more than a reasonable, relatively effortless, and fair solution to overcome the main issue reported here by those who are fed up with Spam (to which Karel might not even be responsible), at least by their definition of Spam.
I don't see how my suggestion is "opposing" Karel's service, if anything, it will do him and his customers a service as well.
Sometimes I wonder why I even bother with these forums... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:46
Hebrew to English
| That's actually helpful! | May 31, 2013 |
Karel Kosman wrote:
Now I have started to mark the subject with [TA:] or something, so they can begin to recognize them coming from my service.
By putting something recognizable and consistent in the subject field people can create email protocols to redirect these emails straight into the spam folder.
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Silvia M.
Germany
Local time: 10:46
Member (2011)
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER | I really like your posts and your idea | May 31, 2013 |
Shai Nave wrote:
Samuel,
Sure, some will not bother to opt-out, but then they will not have a reason to complain, will they?
It is not the same thing as adding a link at the bottom of an email that many suspect to be Spam. When you suspect something to be Spam or a scam you are not scanning it to notice any links, and even if you do, you are not very inclined to click them for security reasons.
A dedicated remainder with the name of the list (so people could search it and arrive at the website in which I think there should also be a notice about how to unsubscribe by contacting the list provider), an explanation about what is this list, the purpose of this remainder, and an unsubscribe link, is more than a reasonable, relatively effortless, and fair solution to overcome the main issue reported here by those who are fed up with Spam (to which Karel might not even be responsible), at least by their definition of Spam.
I don't see how my suggestion is "opposing" Karel's service, if anything, it will do him and his customers a service as well.
Sometimes I wonder why I even bother with these forums...
Whilst everybody else is going on a rant against our poor Karel you are actually the only one who has got something constructive to say on this topic. That s quite remarkable . Don't feel discouraged. After all you can only lead a horse to water.....
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 10:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Shai Nave wrote:
Sure, some will not bother to opt-out, but then they will not have a reason to complain, will they?
Some people are so allergic to spam that they will complain anyway. That is my conclusion when I read the replies of those who oppose this method of marketing.
I don't see how my suggestion is "opposing" Karel's service, if anything, it will do him and his customers a service as well.
My comment was not directed at you -- you're offering helpful advice, and you're not opposing his service. But you'll find plenty of other participants in this thread who certainly do...
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:46
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Can we please hear the views of some of the agencies who use these forums? I seem to recall that not long ago, one agency said it is really annoyed by unsolicited emails from prospective translators.
[Edited at 2013-05-31 08:05 GMT]
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