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Machine Translation, how it’s reshaping the language industry
Thread poster: Philippe Locquet

Philippe Locquet  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 13:57
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
First letter Aug 28

Kaspars Melkis wrote:


What I miss, however, is easily customable abbreviation expansion.


Interesting point.
I remember that in Wordfast tools you have a something that would have a close behavior to what you're describing:
_All words having first letter capitalization
_All numbers
_All terms known in glossary

As you're translating, you just need to press the first letter/number of what you need to insert in the target, a drop-down quick insertion will appear where your cursor is. Then you just press enter or click or arrow up/down to have the insertion done.
Off-course glossaries can be fed very fast by selection + keyboard shortcut.
No MT involved in this, but it's a fast method to increase productivity. Maybe this would help you productivity.

The only thing I like about the machine predictive described above is that it triggers only when you call it. So if you're stuck on a segment and the machine has been trained in a domain similar to what you are translating, it could nudge you in the right direction. I don't think using it on every segment would help productivity though, it would just make more clutter maybe.

My bests


[Edited at 2019-08-28 11:04 GMT]


 

Kaspars Melkis  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:57
English to Latvian
+ ...
ok Aug 28

Philippe Locquet wrote:
The only thing I like about the machine predictive described above is that it triggers only when you call it. So if you're stuck on a segment and the machine has been trained in a domain similar to what you are translating, it could nudge you in the right direction.


That's not how I work. If I encounter a source that I don't understand well or I don't know very well how it is customarily expressed in the target language, I do my research. If there was a predictive text only, I would have no way to know if it is correct or not. I would have to do the same research anyway.


Philippe Locquet
 

Philippe Locquet  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 13:57
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
MT intensive workflow Aug 28

I totally agree with you.

I'll just answer to the "machine" aspect of it:

Kaspars Melkis wrote:

Now if I used predictive typing I would need to pay my whole attention to the text that I am typing instead of the source text or other things. Thus it would actually make me less productive.



In a classical translation workflow, I couldn't agree with you more, spot on!
Now things would be different for at least two type of workflows involving Machine Translation:
A_ If an LSP uses a Custom Machine Translation to do the first translation, they have the resources to have an MT specifically trained for their big company client, with their own vocabulary and style. This MT outputs things that would require less research from the translator editing the text.
Thus in that context, the same LSP could train a predictive typing neural network based on the same data. So, the likelyhood of the suggestion being correct in that context would be very hight. Off-course this never takes away the thinking and comparative cognitive effort the translators needs to do.
But it would have to be tested in real life to see if it makes work faster for translators or not.

B_Based on the situation described above, some MT based LSPs already push translation to be edited to user's smartphones. This comes in small amounts. They too have the resources to make the suggestions domain and customer specific.
Then the advantage of this technique over typing on the smartphone would make more sense, as you said.

My bests


 

Philippe Locquet  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 13:57
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
At last! Aug 30

Hi all,

I finally managed to release the video.
Took me a while to structure all that information in a concise way.
Plenty of wind when I shot so, I had to spend some time fixing the sound, but the view makes it worth it I think.

Here's the video: https://youtu.be/lIvcTUrQRKo

If you guys have specific questions on what I explain I'll try to answer them here
... See more
Hi all,

I finally managed to release the video.
Took me a while to structure all that information in a concise way.
Plenty of wind when I shot so, I had to spend some time fixing the sound, but the view makes it worth it I think.

Here's the video: https://youtu.be/lIvcTUrQRKo

If you guys have specific questions on what I explain I'll try to answer them here if you need.
As I said before, depending on your experience you may now some of this, but I think you'll discover new things.

My bests to all
Collapse


 

DZiW
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
TL:DR finally Aug 30

Philippe, you've got a couple interesting points but the video is rather long for me.
To put it mildly shortly: I ticked 'Auto-subtitles', then grinned and checked Ukrainian auto-translation, grinning even more... The very essence of modern MT in action.

 While I realize those commercialization trends and Orwellianisms behind such terms as 'Language Service Provider' meaning
... See more
Philippe, you've got a couple interesting points but the video is rather long for me.
To put it mildly shortly: I ticked 'Auto-subtitles', then grinned and checked Ukrainian auto-translation, grinning even more... The very essence of modern MT in action.

 While I realize those commercialization trends and Orwellianisms behind such terms as 'Language Service Provider' meaning not a translator but a mere middleman or a sponger, I completely disagree over your idea that 'LSP' and 'MT providers' are competitors, because the latter are far more useful, indeed.

As for re/shaping and prospects, even a stone lying on the road makes a driver turn left or right, so? I mostly work as an interpreter though.
Collapse


Philippe Locquet
 

Philippe Locquet  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 13:57
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Reg LSP vs MT LSP Aug 31

Hi DZiW,
Thanks for your comments and feedback! Highly appreciated. 😊

DZiW wrote:
Philippe, you've got a couple interesting points but the video is rather long for me. .

I know, that’s a lot of information, but couldn’t compact the main points more. If it made financial sense, I would have done that as a 45 mins webinar on ProZ.

DZiW wrote:
To put it mildly shortly: I ticked 'Auto-subtitles', then grinned and checked Ukrainian auto-translation, grinning even more... The very essence of modern MT in action.

That’s two layers of MT: I didn’t post-edit the transcription. So, Google machine-transcripted my speech (with the accent etc.). Then machine translation on top of this + Ukrainian isn’t yet once of best MT languages (for the main MTs I know, if someone knows a good one, let us know).

DZiW wrote:
While I realize those commercialization trends and Orwellianisms behind such terms as 'Language Service Provider' meaning not a translator but a mere middleman or a sponger, I completely disagree over your idea that 'LSP' and 'MT providers' are competitors, because the latter are far more useful, indeed.

I put them as competitors when the MT provider also offers LSP services. So, the MT provider would 1/Machine Translate, 2/Get humans to post edit, 3/DTP (maybe) and then send to client.
So, in that case regular LSP vs MT LSP would be competing for the same big clients.
As a slightly different example, as a YouTuber, I am given the possibility (I did NOT) to ask that agencies would translate my subtitles. In that case YouTube sends the MT transcription + MT translation to a real LSP (the YouTuber can sees the list with prices and choose from there). I imagine they take a cut on this. This is a more indirect approach, but it’s been around for a long time.

Off-course translators that work directly with their end customers will probably be less affected. Especially the super-fast and high-quality ones. They are able to establish long term partnerships with clients and it makes sense.

DZiW wrote:
As for re/shaping and prospects, even a stone lying on the road makes a driver turn left or right, so? I mostly work as an interpreter though.


My point exactly! Thanks


 

Maxi Schwarz  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:57
German to English
+ ...
The villagers analogy Aug 31

This one:
Philippe Locquet wrote:
Thanks for that Gerard that brought me back fond memories of a chat I had with folks in a Portuguese village (I love sitting by the fire in the winter). This Portuguese man was reminiscing about a time when some splitters/fellers would go to someone’s house stay there three or four days splitting logs and even felling trees. All that by hand. This doesn’t happen anymore off-course.
I’m sure these folks were eager back then to learn how to handle a chainsaw,.....

Gerard stated that folks here understand the industry that they work in, and you responded with that imagery. I used to see things about quill pens and ink wells, which always felt like a way to make people look silly. I am one of the folks here, and do believe that I understand the part of the industry I work in, and I make my decisions accordingly. I don't like to be likened to a fondly remembered villager, because then my voice doesn't count as that of an antiquated person behind the times. That the men and women working in this profession should have a grasp of their profession should be acknowledged. That is what bothers me.

The type of work that I do, the demands and needs of my customers, do not lend themselves to the technology you are writing about. To go back to your chainsaw: one does not cut a wedding cake with a chainsaw. We use what is appropriate for the job, and we do so knowledgeably.

Machine translation is not reshaping my part of the industry. Demand is growing and not waning from what I see in my inbox and telephone calls of customer requests. Like most colleagues, I am always interested in new knowledge and information. But what we know is also not to be sneezed at, and is also not antiquated. I don't know if you intended that analogy the way it came out.


Christine Andersen
 

Philippe Locquet  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 13:57
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Context Sep 1

Maxi Schwarz wrote:

The type of work that I do, the demands and needs of my customers, do not lend themselves to the technology you are writing about. To go back to your chainsaw: one does not cut a wedding cake with a chainsaw. We use what is appropriate for the job, and we do so knowledgeably.


Gerard de Noord wrote:
I don't think you're furthering the profession by educating the people who are not in the know already.




Hi Maxi,

I was reacting to Gerard's Statement with a true story.
I'm glad to hear you have plenty of work. Someone commented under the video that they are already affected. Not all segments of the profession are affected in the same way and there are instances where MT is useless. These are some points I covered in the video.

All my best on your activity


 

Kaspars Melkis  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:57
English to Latvian
+ ...
actually important translations are not impacted Sep 1

Philippe Locquet wrote:
Not all segments of the profession are affected in the same way and there are instances where MT is useless.


I think this is the key phrase. When I started my translation career, I studied theoretical and practical aspects of translation and one phrase stuck in my mind: translators are like writers, they have a good style, deep domain knowledge etc. but they have nothing to say, therefore they translate what others have said.

At the same time a collegue of mine told me that many texts he translates are not important. Companies only order translation because they have to due to legal requirements but they don't care about the quality and when they receive the translations they show them to the regulators and then file them in drawers and never read them again. Obviously, companies want to obtain these translations as cheap as possible and many agencies and translators play along. MT seems to fit in this scheme very well.

The other segment is where texts are important and read by people and where a translator needs to be as good as an original writer so that they could switch places if needed. MT has no purpose there because important texts are not written by computers.

There was a warning about 20 years ago – translate well or you will be replaced by a machine. It hasn't happened yet because even MT still needs a lot of human input. But the divergence of these two segments was predicted long time ago. It hasn't come as a surprise to anyone serious about this profession.


Christine Andersen
Philippe Locquet
mughwI
Valentine E.
 

Philippe Locquet  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 13:57
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
More information Sep 5

Hi all,

There's a very good article written by Mathieu Gautier on some useful takeaways from what was discussed at the MT Summit in Dublin. That's worth taking a look.

See it here: https://medium.com/@mgautier.elitecom/the-current-state-of-machine-translation-c421806ed19d

My bests...
See more
Hi all,

There's a very good article written by Mathieu Gautier on some useful takeaways from what was discussed at the MT Summit in Dublin. That's worth taking a look.

See it here: https://medium.com/@mgautier.elitecom/the-current-state-of-machine-translation-c421806ed19d

My bests
Collapse


 

Milan Condak  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:57
English to Czech
Proceedings, workshops and tutorials of MT Summitu 2019 Sep 8

Philippe Locquet wrote:

Hi all,

I just attended the MT Summit in Dublin last week. Very, very interesting!



The quotes and pictures are in English, I wrote the short comments in Czech.
Each reader can find what s/he want. The authors have different opinions.

http://www.condak.cz/nove/2019-09/02/cs/00.html

MT reshaping the language industry

Referáty a výukové materiály MT Summitu 2019

(Proceedings, workshops and tutorials of MT Summitu 2019)

01 MT Summit 2019
02 Referáty a výukové materiály
03 Volume 1: Research Track
04 Volume 2: Translator, Project and User Tracks
05 Aktivity, agentury, chyby v překladech
06 Nástroje v Evropské unii a společnosti Oracle
07 Technology usage among translators
08 Morphological Neural Processing for Slavic Languages

My opinion: No reshaping. The EU develops SW and opens language ressources, USA dominates on world market.
US companies make money and determinate procecess in their "ecosystems". They know it.

Organisers: "We also requested that all submissions have at least one industry partner to encourage true user scenarios, as opposed to simulations.": There is non submission from Czech authors.

Milan


 

Philippe Locquet  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 13:57
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Missed you' Sep 8

Milan Condak wrote:
...
Milan


Hey Milan,

Hope you are well.
I didn't see you there, where you there and I missed you?


 

Milan Condak  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:57
English to Czech
I am at home, but sometimes online Sep 8

Philippe Locquet wrote:

Hey Milan,

Hope you are well.
I didn't see you there, where you there and I missed you?


HI Philippe,

I monitor all activities about MT from home without travelling. I like desktop MT in my PC or LAN. I use MS Windows and all talk for years about Linux (they do not say it aloud). There is no reason for me to travel to listen ACRONYMs, words in CAPITAL and to crack what is a meaning of these sounds.

Be happy,

Milan

http://www.condak.cz/p-kontakt.php


 

Philippe Locquet  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 13:57
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
A trend? Sep 15

https://www.verdict.co.uk/ai-translation-nmt/amp/

I've read a lot of suchlike comments lately:
That most of translation work will now shift to
1st Translation done by MT
2nd step: editing etc. done by humans

Some have gone as far as getting a new acronym out: HAT (Human Assisted Translation).
Do you see that trend going wide-scale?
... See more
https://www.verdict.co.uk/ai-translation-nmt/amp/

I've read a lot of suchlike comments lately:
That most of translation work will now shift to
1st Translation done by MT
2nd step: editing etc. done by humans

Some have gone as far as getting a new acronym out: HAT (Human Assisted Translation).
Do you see that trend going wide-scale?

My bests
Collapse


 

Milan Condak  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:57
English to Czech
List of acronyms Sep 15

Philippe Locquet wrote:

Some have gone as far as getting a new acronym out: HAT (Human Assisted Translation).
Do you see that trend going wide-scale?



Hi Phillipe,

5% of unique words in proceedings are acronyms.

Total No. of unique Acronyms 1.443
Total No. of Word Types: 29.212

I added a new page, the list of the acronyms or words in big letters:

http://www.condak.cz/nove/2019-09/02/cs/acronyms-mt2019-summit.htm

I am interesting in local MT, as Apertium in JAR file ( List_of_Apertium_mentors: http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/List_of_Apertium_mentors ) or Slate Desktop
( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp3Mfg4kyOhrXkKBCxQzhaQ ) for OmegaT which I can use in MS Windows.
Im not interesting personaly into relations agencies crowd translation or web MT.

If you are interesting in HAT, monitor a web https://unbabel.com/ or read the articles https://sites.google.com/unbabel.com/hat19/home .

Milan


 
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