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Rates per hour for MTPE
Thread poster: F Bossard

Holger Laux  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:19
Member (2011)
English to German
+ ...
You want to use MT? Then learn to live with the results! Mar 19, 2018

The answer is simple: If companies think they can get translations done on the cheap, they should learn how to live with the results. With a bit of reading experience, MT does not need any post-editing at all. Get your staff trained and get on with it.

However, if the MT output does not make sense to you or if it is not good enough, then don't use it.

I for one refuse to deliver work that is "just good enough". I am not able to let mistgakes pass and rather feel compell
... See more
The answer is simple: If companies think they can get translations done on the cheap, they should learn how to live with the results. With a bit of reading experience, MT does not need any post-editing at all. Get your staff trained and get on with it.

However, if the MT output does not make sense to you or if it is not good enough, then don't use it.

I for one refuse to deliver work that is "just good enough". I am not able to let mistgakes pass and rather feel compelled to correct them. But in that case, as others have said, I might as well scrap the output and start from scratch.
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Eiko Toda (X)
Josefa Devesa
Elizabeth Tamblin
 

Daniela Slankamenac  Identity Verified
Serbia
Local time: 09:19
Member (2011)
English to Serbian
Regular rate Mar 19, 2018

I either don't accept PEMT or say that I will charge my regular rate per source word for translation. Why on Earth would I charge 1/3 of my regular rate? Just because a project manager ran the text through Google Translate or something similar? C'mon...

Radha Verma
ORSZAGH Technologies
Slobodan Kozarčić
Desiree Davidse
Olavo Nogueira
Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei
Matthias Brombach
 

Lingua.Franca  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:19
German to English
+ ...
Don't do it Jul 31, 2018

I agree with those who speak against accepting these jobs. If MT takes over, agencies and companies will have even bigger profits, while we will see ours dwindle ever lower. Accepting MTPE jobs is digging our own graves.

Oleksandr Vasyliev
Katalin Szilárd
Desiree Davidse
Florian Stauber
Daryo
Josefa Devesa
 

Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 09:19
Multiplelanguages
+ ...
Knowing when to do MT post-editing and when not to do it Oct 4, 2018

Jean Dimitriadis wrote:

- Post-editing must be done right, otherwise is it just exploitation in disguise: source material must be appropriate for machine translation, the MT output needs to require relatively few edits to meet the quality goal, etc. Some translation agencies are just as clueless when it comes to post-editing as the translators they use to post-edit their client’s materials.


Jean, I can tell from your replies that you have experience on MT post-editing jobs and that you have seen the varying levels that are required.

Very few translation agencies are willing to invest in funding the training time of the translation post-editors on specific systems and how to be optimal in post-editing tasks. I have trained post-editors on using different MT systems over the years.

Jean Dimitriadis wrote:

- Although MT can be used as an aid for translation, post-editing MT is a different service than translation, it requires different skills and quite a different mindset (of course, both activities share many aspects and goals). Just like subtitling, or editing/revising, I think one needs to be acquainted with the process. Not every translator can (or should) tackle subtitling, revising or post-editing (the same is true the other way around).


I have recently started doing a significant amount of video captioning/subtitling of pre-generated captions done via speech recognition. Having spent many years doing MT post-editing, I am applying the same principle of rapid, light, full post-editing to video caption post-editing jobs, and it works very well. It definitely requires a specific set of skills which can be learned, but they are not necessarily intuitive if someone tries to come from the perspective of high-quality video transcriptions every time.

Jean Dimitriadis wrote:

- And if 1/3 is the rate for full post-editing, how much would you charge for light post-editing? Because there is no such thing as “post-editing” without specifying the quality expectations.


Exactly. I have always explained and documented the quality expectations for an MT post-editing jobs and now also with video caption post-editing jobs.

Jean Dimitriadis wrote:
- In my experience and view, full post-editing is more towards 60-75% of the translation rate, which I can confirm with at least three of my clients, who are serious about post-editing.


There are a number of clients who are serious about post-editing. The problem is that there are so many cheap and poorly organized and planned MT post-editing jobs in announcements, that these tend to make it seem like all such projects are junk. I have worked on many MT post-editing jobs in various industries and with a range of levels. All of them were very beneficial to the post-editors and could increase productivity and quality without wasting time. Glad to hear that the TAUS training is helping you along those lines.

Jeff


Christine Andersen
Jorge Payan
 

Thayenga  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:19
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
Hourly rate Nov 21, 2018

When quoting one's hourly rate it should be mentioned to the client that reviewing MTPE takes much longer than the review of a human translation because 99% of MTPE usually needs to be re-translated from scratch.

MTPE and lower rates are an illusion that has nothing to do with the reality of translations or the revision process. If someone is short of work, MTPE could be accepted to fill in the "void", but when real work is available, the only answer to such requests is, thank you,
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When quoting one's hourly rate it should be mentioned to the client that reviewing MTPE takes much longer than the review of a human translation because 99% of MTPE usually needs to be re-translated from scratch.

MTPE and lower rates are an illusion that has nothing to do with the reality of translations or the revision process. If someone is short of work, MTPE could be accepted to fill in the "void", but when real work is available, the only answer to such requests is, thank you, but no thank you.
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Desiree Davidse
Florian Stauber
Philippe Locquet
 

Cindy Desjardins Dutelly
Canada
Local time: 03:19
English to French
Rates for MTPE Jul 9

Hi guys!
I am a new translator (got my degree last year).
I just got offered a 5000-word MTPE job by Dux Translations. They asked for my rates, which are $0.14/word for a high-quality translation to work on, and $0.18/word (all Canadian dollars) if the quality is bad. They just ignore my message and said "We pay $0.02/word ($0.01/fuzzy match)". Also, they give me 24hrs to get through the 5000 words. I feel laughed at. $0.02/word? Why not do it for free?? Any advice anyone??
... See more
Hi guys!
I am a new translator (got my degree last year).
I just got offered a 5000-word MTPE job by Dux Translations. They asked for my rates, which are $0.14/word for a high-quality translation to work on, and $0.18/word (all Canadian dollars) if the quality is bad. They just ignore my message and said "We pay $0.02/word ($0.01/fuzzy match)". Also, they give me 24hrs to get through the 5000 words. I feel laughed at. $0.02/word? Why not do it for free?? Any advice anyone??

Cindy
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Tom Stevens
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:19
Chinese to English
+ ...
@Cindy Jul 10

Don't be discouraged!

At quick glance, Dux is a Moldovan outfit operating from Ireland / UK (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10763287). These sort of companies are brokers/outsourcers in a long chain, so the rates are rock bottom, but might be okay in some countries where the average salaries are a few hundred dollars per month. Obviously, in Canada you would
... See more
Don't be discouraged!

At quick glance, Dux is a Moldovan outfit operating from Ireland / UK (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10763287). These sort of companies are brokers/outsourcers in a long chain, so the rates are rock bottom, but might be okay in some countries where the average salaries are a few hundred dollars per month. Obviously, in Canada you would never be able to live on such rates.

Just ignore these types of companies, and please don't think that they are representative of the market. I found my largest client through an ad on LinkedIn, and not only do they pay my highest rates, but they also give me the largest volumes of work.

I suggest focusing on one speciality (say marketing, or even specialise in a type of marketing, websites, medical, financial services etc.), and contact many direct companies and agencies too. The blue board is great for a list of agencies. Tip: Stay away from agencies with lots of ratings from freelancers (Even if they are all 5-star ratings, like Dux) as this only indicates they have a high turnover of freelancers (probably due to bad conditions or rates).
My top client mentioned above only has around 4 ratings and 3.5 / 5 (their accounting team can be slow so payments can be late).

Back on topic about MTPE, only accept lower work for MT output that has been primed with a glossary or TM. Generic MT output (Google) should be charged at your normal rates, and tell the client you can use the output as a reference. Many clients would probably not accept this, but they are not the type of client you want anyway.
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Jorge Payan
 

Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei  Identity Verified
Ghana
Local time: 08:19
Japanese to English
Ignore them Jul 10

You would end up shouldering the burden for producing a high-quality translation... at $0.02 a word. A waste of time and energy.

Thayenga
Daryo
 

jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:19
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Removed for duplicated posting Jul 10

Removed for duplicated posting

[Edited at 2019-07-10 21:22 GMT]


 

jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:19
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
It can be quite the contrary Jul 10

Thayenga wrote:

reviewing MTPE takes much longer than the review of a human translation.


I recently experienced something quite the contrary. A few pieces of human translations I edited took much more time than I'd have spent on editing machine translations.


 

Thayenga  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:19
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
MTPE in disguise Aug 9

Cindy Desjardins Dutelly wrote:

Hi guys!
I am a new translator (got my degree last year).
I just got offered a 5000-word MTPE job by Dux Translations. They asked for my rates, which are $0.14/word for a high-quality translation to work on, and $0.18/word (all Canadian dollars) if the quality is bad. They just ignore my message and said "We pay $0.02/word ($0.01/fuzzy match)". Also, they give me 24hrs to get through the 5000 words. I feel laughed at. $0.02/word? Why not do it for free?? Any advice anyone??

Cindy


That they ignored your email is typical for this type of agency. They don't want to collaborate with you, only dictate their price, of course, at the lowest possible end.

The turnaround time is simply ridiculous. If it were worth the time, I'd asked them about their actual experience of working day and night. And then I would like to see the quality of their output.

0.02 in any currency is simply laughing at the translator and his or her qualifications. I am always amazed at how persistently they offer (rather dictate) such a rate. The sad part about it is, they will eventually find someone who does it for such a shameful rate...or even for less (the "famous" 0.01 agencies).

My advice would be, if you do any MTPE at all, charge your hourly rate and remain firm.


 

Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:19
Member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
No matter what some clients (want to) call it ... Aug 9

jyuan_us wrote:

Thayenga wrote:

reviewing MTPE takes much longer than the review of a human translation.


I recently experienced something quite the contrary. A few pieces of human translations I edited took much more time than I'd have spent on editing machine translations.


... translation, editing, MTPE, proofreading ....
it's a no-brainer to first take a close look at the task (original, translation, etc.) and then make a reasonable offer, mainly reasonable to you but also to the client, even if you have to educate them. Just saying. -

[Edited at 2019-08-09 16:27 GMT]


Daryo
 

Josefa Devesa  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:19
Member (2008)
English to Spanish
+ ...
It's the end Aug 15

I agree with all of you who say MTPE takes more work and concentration, and that's why an hourly rate should not be the same as for, say, regular proof (which it is a pain for me, as it is).
I agree we should reject MTPE alright, and I wish I could. Since my only client is using it increasingly, my only option is to negotiate, and take the job if that negotiation is accepted. But even so... I am making less money than with a regularly low TR rate.
So... not worth it. In my view, a
... See more
I agree with all of you who say MTPE takes more work and concentration, and that's why an hourly rate should not be the same as for, say, regular proof (which it is a pain for me, as it is).
I agree we should reject MTPE alright, and I wish I could. Since my only client is using it increasingly, my only option is to negotiate, and take the job if that negotiation is accepted. But even so... I am making less money than with a regularly low TR rate.
So... not worth it. In my view, and most of you have confirmed this assumption, MTPE is more work than translating from scratch.
Is not that we are not going to have work, it is that we are going to have more work for a lower rate.
This is only making the companies profit and the clients pay less, while translators cannot longer make a living. Literally, just been doing an 8000 word MTPE and it will take me exactly the 4 days that 8000 words would take according to the old rule (2000 per word), but, I am making half or one third of the money and I don't have time to squeeze other jobs or for my own leisure on those 4 days.
I am trying to get other clients (taking a month off after this job) and looking into teaching for a leaving.
But that is sad.
We should do something to prevent this.
The "do not accept those jobs" is a very valid solution for those who are offered another type.
We should make the clients aware of this. We should all say no, but how is that going to happen.
I am thinking of starting a campaign.
And the info I found here has been very helpful. Thank you all.
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Mary Rizzo
 

Mary Rizzo  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 09:19
Italian to English
+ ...
agencies increasing the recourse to MTPE Aug 17

I had never heard of Post-Editing until a few weeks ago. One of the agencies I have had a long (and relatively positive, in regard to human interaction and amount of regular work) relationship with, started giving me more and more of these jobs. I have to say, at least in my language pair, the MT was not atrocious, so the amount of work required of me to produce a perfect translation was reasonable, but still, going from an untranslated document (what they received in their office) to a translat... See more
I had never heard of Post-Editing until a few weeks ago. One of the agencies I have had a long (and relatively positive, in regard to human interaction and amount of regular work) relationship with, started giving me more and more of these jobs. I have to say, at least in my language pair, the MT was not atrocious, so the amount of work required of me to produce a perfect translation was reasonable, but still, going from an untranslated document (what they received in their office) to a translated document complete with native-language sense of nuance and continuity and even a feel for the style, at half the (too-low) price for the translator, has bothered me, as I fear that they will resort to this more and more in the future, and I honestly can't afford to keep on an agency that pays me less than what they used to for the same amount of words, at the end of the day.

Hopefully, they will realise that they are risking good, established relationships with their translators if they decide to take this road. My choice will have to be to accept fewer of these jobs, and only when there is nothing else on the horizon that week.
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IanDhu
 

Claudio Porcellana  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 09:19
Member (2004)
English to Italian
+ ...
Rates per hour for MTPE Aug 23

This "rule" could be right for the revision of an human translation, not for a MTPE, which needs much more work


nope, it need less work, a lot less...
if you know what are you doing, i.e if you do a correct PEMT but it seems many never tried doing it

I worked some months as PEMT auditor for a VERY big company and I know what I am speaking about

I see another peer explained the difference from light and heavy PEMT, but you all
... See more
This "rule" could be right for the revision of an human translation, not for a MTPE, which needs much more work


nope, it need less work, a lot less...
if you know what are you doing, i.e if you do a correct PEMT but it seems many never tried doing it

I worked some months as PEMT auditor for a VERY big company and I know what I am speaking about

I see another peer explained the difference from light and heavy PEMT, but you all can download from my ProZ page the file called "Just in case you will be asked to do some PEMT" with further explanation and samples

P.S. I hate and don't do PEMT because it's VERY boring, not because of the rate

[Edited at 2019-08-23 21:49 GMT]
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