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DeepL
Thread poster: Michael Mangelsdorf

Daniel Frisano
Switzerland
Local time: 08:01
English to Italian
+ ...
Useful? Jun 30, 2018

Tom in London wrote:
It's useful in some ways...


Tom, I gave it a honest try and couldn't see any utility in it.

The post-editing took forever and it was a constant and frustrating struggle not to be sucked into the mediocrity of wrong grammar, language subtleties that got lost (e.g., verb moods), inconsistent terminology, uneven flow, lack of flexibility (e.g., merging/splitting sentences or turning them around from passive to active form), and the unmistakable sensation of the result being a patchwork of different sources.

You might argue that MT could be integrated as an additional optional input that you can always choose to use or not, but what good is an input that just adds confusion and often turns out to be misleading?

I ended up throwing away the whole thing before it made me throw up my lunch, and doing it anew one week later in the old-fashioned way, you know, like when we used to think with our brains and type with our fingers. Remember those times?

If MT becomes the norm, it won't be because it gives excellent results, but because we all unknowingly agree to lower our standards to its mediocrity.

I know, it's probably a lost cause anyway. As an expat periodically returning to my native country, I see my (written) native language deteriorating before my very eyes, and that includes literature and major newspapers. I just hope I can retire before I am forced to write like a semi-illiterate for a living!

[Edited at 2018-06-30 12:44 GMT]


neilmac
Denis Danchenko
Thorsten Distler
 

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:01
Member (2008)
Italian to English
ritorno Jun 30, 2018

Daniel Frisano wrote:

....I see my (written) native language deteriorating before my very eyes, and that includes literature and major newspapers...


I think it's called "analfabetismo di ritorno" in Italian.

The return to illiteracy.

I know people who don't even have one book in the house. Not even one.


 

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:01
Member (2004)
English to Italian
Some thoughts... Jul 1, 2018

Daniel Frisano wrote:

The post-editing took forever and it was a constant and frustrating struggle not to be sucked into the mediocrity of wrong grammar, language subtleties that got lost (e.g., verb moods), inconsistent terminology, uneven flow, lack of flexibility (e.g., merging/splitting sentences or turning them around from passive to active form), and the unmistakable sensation of the result being a patchwork of different sources.


Post-editing is a technique, like many others... some people are better than others and can do it quickly with good results (note: I didn't say acceptable, but good)... so, even if you find it difficult and frustrating, it doesn't mean it's not possible. It is. Personally, I would never offer PEMT, because it goes against my philosophy, but if the raw material is good it's possible to edit quickly and with good results.

Daniel Frisano wrote:

As an expat periodically returning to my native country, I see my (written) native language deteriorating before my very eyes, and that includes literature and major newspapers. I just hope I can retire before I am forced to write like a semi-illiterate for a living!


The bastardization of a language is, in my opinion, inevitable. It's a lost battle with the media populated by lazy and illiterate journos who think that using an English word every 20 seconds is cool... we can only do our best.


 

Ligeti  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 08:01
English to Dutch
+ ...
Toms work Jul 1, 2018

Bonaparte wrote:

Yes Tom in London's high end documents are less easy to do but the overall market will get smaller or commodified.




I think you should pay more respect to Toms work. Translation agencies roll out the red carpet for him, his translations
are delivered in armored vehicles, his work has been compared to that of Proust and Nabokov, kings and queens have personally asked for his services, his mind has been compared to Stephen Hawkings'.


 

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:01
Member (2008)
Italian to English
I don't know what Toms are. Do they really work? How? What do they do? Jul 1, 2018

I also know how to use apostrophes.

None of what you say is true.

[Edited at 2018-07-01 13:23 GMT]


 

Ligeti  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 08:01
English to Dutch
+ ...
Fallible Jul 1, 2018

Tom in London wrote:

I also know how to use apostrophes.

None of what you say is true.

[Edited at 2018-07-01 13:23 GMT]


Yes, I am fallible. I know that king Tom. I am not worthy. Though I am a bit disappointed in your response right now. I would have expected more from a superiour mind as yours.


 

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:01
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Superiour? Jul 1, 2018

Thanks for all the compliments. They're well deserved - but you should check your spelling. I'm signing out of this forum now, but keep the compliments coming!

[Edited at 2018-07-01 14:21 GMT]


Hans Lenting
 

Ligeti  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 08:01
English to Dutch
+ ...
superiour Jul 1, 2018

Tom in London wrote:

Thanks for all the compliments. They're well deserved - but you should check your spelling. I'm signing out of this forum now, but keep the compliments coming!

[Edited at 2018-07-01 14:21 GMT]


That didnt take long to figur you out. Am I right after all: no modesty for you sir. superiour minds like your must be acknoledged. I will see to it that you get the respect you so need.


 

Thorsten Distler  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 08:01
Member (2004)
English to German
+ ...
Man versus Machine Oct 6, 2018

Here is my take on the subject, in two versions.

1. A more instructive beta version in English that has still to be updated: https://www.thorstendistler.com/en/bonus-information/man-or-machine
2. The final highly polished marketing text in German: ...
See more
Here is my take on the subject, in two versions.

1. A more instructive beta version in English that has still to be updated: https://www.thorstendistler.com/en/bonus-information/man-or-machine
2. The final highly polished marketing text in German: https://www.thorstendistler.com/de/bonusinfos/mensch-oder-maschine

Homework for all AI evangelists:
1. Find a software able to write in those 2 different styles, no matter what language.
2. Find a software you can feed with unique selling points and able to create electrifying marketing texts afterwards, just like the DE version above.
3. Please send me the software, but don't tell anyone about it!

What I will do:
1. Get stinking rich with the help of this software until the rest of the translator community also knows and uses it.
2. Quit my job and start out as a fitness trainer.
3. Start listening to AI cabaret, songwriters and poetry slammers.

And now let's all nod our heads to an AI MC Conditioner Beatles Brainwash Remake:

https://www.theverge.com/2016/9/26/13055938/ai-pop-song-daddys-car-sony

Nod, earthlings, nod!

(Postscript: You really like that song? Now, THAT's really frightening!)

[Edited at 2018-10-06 01:34 GMT]

[Edited at 2018-10-06 01:37 GMT]
Collapse


 

Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 08:01
Member (2006)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Greed Oct 7, 2018

Thorsten Distler wrote:

Here is my take on the subject, in two versions.

1. A more instructive beta version in English that has still to be updated: https://www.thorstendistler.com/en/bonus-information/man-or-machine
2. The final highly polished marketing text in German: https://www.thorstendistler.com/de/bonusinfos/mensch-oder-maschine

Homework for all AI evangelists:
1. Find a software able to write in those 2 different styles, no matter what language.
2. Find a software you can feed with unique selling points and able to create electrifying marketing texts afterwards, just like the DE version above.
3. Please send me the software, but don't tell anyone about it!

What I will do:
1. Get stinking rich with the help of this software until the rest of the translator community also knows and uses it.
2. Quit my job and start out as a fitness trainer.
3. Start listening to AI cabaret, songwriters and poetry slammers.

And now let's all nod our heads to an AI MC Conditioner Beatles Brainwash Remake:

https://www.theverge.com/2016/9/26/13055938/ai-pop-song-daddys-car-sony

Nod, earthlings, nod!

(Postscript: You really like that song? Now, THAT's really frightening!)

[Edited at 2018-10-06 01:34 GMT]

[Edited at 2018-10-06 01:37 GMT]


How do you know fitness trainers will be needed?
There may be fitness trainer robots with AI. lol And those human developers and project managers and their managers and their CEO's will be all substituted by robots with AI.

If we humans cannot do what we have passion for, what we are good at, if we don't need to use our brain because everything will be done by robots and AI and MT and DeepL, if we can't use our physical strength to do things we will end up on the level of a caveman.

The key word is enormous GREED. Because those people who think it's better to make money with AI and MT etc. and kick out their employees or freelancers don't understand yet that they are substitutable as well. This is a part of the game. And we hope it will be not a GAME OVER.
->

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9J15fDAFxc



[Edited at 2018-10-07 17:31 GMT]


 
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