| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] | Machine Translations: Should Proz.com advertise MT jobs? Thread poster: Lingopro
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564354352 (X) 
Denmark
Local time: 06:58
Danish to English
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MT jobs are translation-related services, so why should they be banned from ProZ.com?
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't touch an MT job with a very long stick, but only because I would find it utterly boring, not because I am intimidated by the prospect of MT one day eliminating the use for human translators. However, if others are interested in this kind of work, why should such job adverts be excluded from this site?
MT editing is not going to go away. Who would be bette... See more MT jobs are translation-related services, so why should they be banned from ProZ.com?
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't touch an MT job with a very long stick, but only because I would find it utterly boring, not because I am intimidated by the prospect of MT one day eliminating the use for human translators. However, if others are interested in this kind of work, why should such job adverts be excluded from this site?
MT editing is not going to go away. Who would be better qualified for this than professional translators and other language specialists? Who else can help MT vendors continue to develop their products into something more useful?
Maybe ProZ.com could add 'MT editing' as a service that members can choose to add or not to add to their profiles, like any other service. ▲ Collapse
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Gitte Hovedskov, MCIL wrote:
Who else can help MT vendors continue to develop their products into something more useful?
Well, that is exactly one of the main problems. More useful = more often replacing human translators = less work for human translators. Where are any benefits? How exactly can that be of interest to any human translator? (If we are talking about commercial/paid jobs now.) Altruism or self-sacrifice in favour of machines?
Yes, it might be happening anyway, and machines won't be able to work on certain types of translations, but I'm surprised how sometimes the negative consequences of direct or indirect involvement seem to be left unnoticed. Gitte, are you sure you want (not with your actual work, but with the statement above) to intentionally support this trend?
By the way: "ProZ.com's mission is to provide tools and opportunities that translators, translation companies, and others in the language industry can use to [...] experience added enjoyment in their professional endeavors." http://www.proz.com/about/
- I would be interested to know how PEMT jobs fulfill this criteria.
| | | | 564354352 (X)
Denmark
Local time: 06:58
Danish to English
+ ...
| I support progress, yes | Nov 11, 2013 |
Tomas Mosler, MITI wrote:
Yes, it might be happening anyway, and machines won't be able to work on certain types of translations, but I'm surprised how sometimes the negative consequences of direct or indirect involvement seem to be left unnoticed. Gitte, are you sure you want (not with your actual work, but with the statement above) to intentionally support this trend?
Yes, I am quite sure that I want to support any trend that can improve communication across the world. Progress in this field will happen, whether we like it or not, and I see no reason at all why we should object to that. In fact, I consider it almost childish to insist on protecting our industry from those big bad guys who just want to make money off something that is OUR work. Come on, now. We are professionals in a specialist field here and now, but we don't own inter-language communication.
Although I think that the Tardis translator or the Star Trek universal translator are still some light years off becoming reality, in my ideal world, such tools would be welcome. Why would anyone object to having tools available that can translate anything in any language combination in an instant? I think that rather than trying to do the impossible and sulking in a corner saying 'I'm not having this, and if I sulk for long enough, it will go away', it would be great if more professional linguists would actually dedicate themselves to helping MT providers improve their systems for the benefit of all.
We are not a dying breed as translators, as Dion mentioned, there is plenty of work out there, and in fact, machine translation may just add to the workload, creating MORE jobs for a different breed of translators.
Now, I realise that the discussion here was originally intended to put a stop to translation agencies exploiting professional translators, asking them to edit machine-translated material for a pittance, and of course, I am totally against such practices. However, I don't see that as a problem either. As long as professional translators don't succumb to working for a pittance, there IS no problem.
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Gitte Hovedskov, MCIL wrote:
Yes, I am quite sure that I want to support any trend that can improve communication across the world.
Yes, that is fine in general, but let me put it more specifically: Do you want to support such trend in case it (not now, perhaps, but ultimately) may mean less work or lower income for human translators?
Progress in this field will happen, whether we like it or not, and I see no reason at all why we should object to that. In fact, I consider it almost childish to insist on protecting our industry from those big bad guys who just want to make money off something that is OUR work. Come on, now. We are professionals in a specialist field here and now, but we don't own inter-language communication.
I fail to see how these arguments should make every professional translator happily jump on the (PE)MT wagon. Saying "it will happen so be it" sounds to me a bit as if someone said (please don't get me wrong) "I will be 70 one day anyway, so why not use this pill to be 70 immediately".
NB I'm not talking about protection, it's just that between ardent "yes" or "no" there is also an option to decide to ignore and keep "clean" hands.
it would be great if more professional linguists would actually dedicate themselves to helping MT providers improve their systems for the benefit of all.
What are the benefits of MT to professional translators (if they are part of that "all" set), as opposed to situation without MT? Can you elaborate on how (PE)MT will improve your work? Thank you.
We are not a dying breed as translators, as Dion mentioned, there is plenty of work out there, and in fact, machine translation may just add to the workload, creating MORE jobs for a different breed of translators.
The problem is not much in the workload, but in the price and "professional level" of that workload.
Also the bright future (I mean merely in relation to PEMT) seems more a speculation at this point (you use "may" or "as long as"). For this reason, I prefer to be cautious rather than to be unpleasantly surprised later with where I get to with a (hypothetical) enthusiastic pro-MT approach. I'm not sure what is wrong with that.
Now, I realise that the discussion here was originally intended to put a stop to translation agencies exploiting professional translators, asking them to edit machine-translated material for a pittance, and of course, I am totally against such practices. However, I don't see that as a problem either. As long as professional translators don't succumb to working for a pittance, there IS no problem.
Yes, in theory it sounds nice. But given there are already now some professional translators working for a pittance (without PEMT involvement), they will likely be willing to do the same in case of PEMT jobs and so your last sentence seems to be rather a wish - I'm not sure how more intensive MT use could improve that situation.
PS I'm talking about a general situation, not about special/demanding/sensitive fields. It's a question where is and where will be the borderline between weather forecasts and poetry MT translations.
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| When PEMT can make sense | Nov 11, 2013 |
Clearly PEMT is not for everybody and many translators will choose not do it.
rom my perspective the best reasons to avoid it are:
1) The pay rate is not related to the effort and difficulty of the work -- i.e. too much work for too little pay
2) The work is "mind-numbing" or disagreeable at a personal level
3) Your philosophical objection to "helping" MT get better
But outside of these reasons I am not sure other objections make as much sense... See more Clearly PEMT is not for everybody and many translators will choose not do it.
rom my perspective the best reasons to avoid it are:
1) The pay rate is not related to the effort and difficulty of the work -- i.e. too much work for too little pay
2) The work is "mind-numbing" or disagreeable at a personal level
3) Your philosophical objection to "helping" MT get better
But outside of these reasons I am not sure other objections make as much sense. MT is used because it can help to reduce the cost of getting repetitive material done and get it done faster. Speed and cost have become more important for many kinds of content that do not have a long shelf life. Many agencies use MT as a ploy to push rates down and translators can make each other aware of these kind of initiatives and avoid these agencies. There are also agencies who are unscrupulous in other ways -- avoid them.
I have described how translators could assess whether a PEMT job is worth doing on a price/pay/time basis in this blog post: http://kv-emptypages.blogspot.com/2013/11/translator-strategies-for-dealing-with.html
However, I think it makes sense for translators to take a look at the specifics of an individual PEMT "opportunity" and then decide whether to engage or not once the fair and reasonable compensation test has been passed. (Assuming that you would consider it all). It is possible for PEMT to be just another aspect/kind of translation work -- which some will be willing to do and some won't. So it goes.
There are still translators who do not use TM and the market is broad and diverse enough that they will continue to find work. I expect that the demand for translators who do not want to do PEMT will continue into the future as long as they have skills and competence that is valued elsewhere.
[Edited at 2013-11-11 22:26 GMT]
[Edited at 2013-11-11 22:27 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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