| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | What do you charge for MT? Thread poster: Kate Tomkins
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Gina W
United States
Local time: 00:34
Member (2003)
French to English
| I don't do post-MT editing | Mar 25, 2013 |
Whenever asked to do post-MT editing, I kindly refuse - and I also let them know why. Hopefully if enough translators nicely refuse, explaining to them why, then they will get the point and not ask anymore.
| | | | riafontes
Spain
Local time: 05:34
Portuguese to English
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| Let's look from another angle | Mar 27, 2013 |
What the agency is aiming at is to have the translation done for only 50% of the normal price they would have to pay. Applying the MT to a file will take only a few minutes. If they find a translator willing to correct the mess by only 50% that's a fantastic business. On top of it they can demand from the translator full responsibility for the final quality. Of course they will not tell the final customer what they have done so they will receive not 50% of the price quoted but the full 100%. Unf... See more What the agency is aiming at is to have the translation done for only 50% of the normal price they would have to pay. Applying the MT to a file will take only a few minutes. If they find a translator willing to correct the mess by only 50% that's a fantastic business. On top of it they can demand from the translator full responsibility for the final quality. Of course they will not tell the final customer what they have done so they will receive not 50% of the price quoted but the full 100%. Unfortunately translators are always at the end of the line and as usual "when the sea strikes the rocks the one that gets smashed is the mussel". It is the same approach of agencies that demand the use of Trados and want to pay much less for repetitions forgetting that the program was fully paid by the translators and it is meant to improve their productivity and consequently earning more money. The agencies don't pay for the program but they want to reap the benefits!
I just refuse to correct MTs ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Determining a fair rate for PEMT work | Nov 8, 2013 |
I think that if the compensation of fair and reasonable in terms of the post-editing work there is not reason to consider a PEMT job differently from any job that requires you to use available TM
I have described this is more detail in this post and it makes sense for translators to understand which jobs are fairly priced and which are not AFTER looking more closely at the kind of out... See more I think that if the compensation of fair and reasonable in terms of the post-editing work there is not reason to consider a PEMT job differently from any job that requires you to use available TM
I have described this is more detail in this post and it makes sense for translators to understand which jobs are fairly priced and which are not AFTER looking more closely at the kind of output they have to work with.
http://kv-emptypages.blogspot.com/2013/11/translator-strategies-for-dealing-with.html ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Accept the offer. | Feb 14, 2014 |
Accept the offer. It would be a great start. And is also a great way to show your excellence.
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Jorge Herran 
Peru
Local time: 23:34
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
| My opinion for MT | May 30, 2014 |
Hello, even if I usually MT on my Fluency 2013 program, is only when I consider that it will accelerate my work, (most of times it does) and only in a fashion in which I feel comfortable. When a client sends me a MT of their won I charge "at least" the same amount than for a regular translation and I usually ask them for the original. I explain them that even if a MT may help sometimes, the original document is needed in order to check the machine Translation, because if it is not performed with... See more Hello, even if I usually MT on my Fluency 2013 program, is only when I consider that it will accelerate my work, (most of times it does) and only in a fashion in which I feel comfortable. When a client sends me a MT of their won I charge "at least" the same amount than for a regular translation and I usually ask them for the original. I explain them that even if a MT may help sometimes, the original document is needed in order to check the machine Translation, because if it is not performed with the original, they will have a very defective translation / proofreading.
Kind regards ▲ Collapse
| | | | jotranslator
Israel
Local time: 07:34
Russian to English
+ ...
| Google Translate is a mess | May 30, 2014 |
gad wrote:
Whenever asked to do post-MT editing, I kindly refuse - and I also let them know why. Hopefully if enough translators nicely refuse, explaining to them why, then they will get the point and not ask anymore.
Since someone re-upped this thread and it reminded me of a recent experience...
A while ago an agency asked me to copy edit a very long technical document that had been put through GTranslate. It was many files and mostly gibberish. I explained that it would need re-translating but they insisted they did not mind about a perfect translation, just that it made sense. And could I please give some free examples of where the text didn't match GTranslate?
The problem is, that of course it requires a retranslation since even just to copy edit it one would have to read the source text very carefully and translate what it actually says as opposed to the jumble of random words that G Translate had spewed out. Effectively I would have been doing a retranslation for a rate less than the lowest rate on this site.
I refused the job, explaining why. I think the problem is that there are a lot of end clients who are cheap and think that GTranslate (free) + cheap editing (less than half of a proper translation cost) is the way forward for them. Agencies should know better than to accept this from clients.
| | | | | Depends on how good (or bad) raw MT is | May 30, 2014 |
First of all, I have never taken any MT projects that are only made from readily available MT programs (GT, out-of-the-box Systran, MT plugins in CAT tools, etc.). If it had any productivity benefit, I would use them myself without the need of an agency doing it for me.
In 2008, I have tested waters at about 50% of my full rate (for every word, not "weighted" wordcount...) on prepared MT projects, with a first stage consisting of extracting terminology and translating with a CAT too... See more First of all, I have never taken any MT projects that are only made from readily available MT programs (GT, out-of-the-box Systran, MT plugins in CAT tools, etc.). If it had any productivity benefit, I would use them myself without the need of an agency doing it for me.
In 2008, I have tested waters at about 50% of my full rate (for every word, not "weighted" wordcount...) on prepared MT projects, with a first stage consisting of extracting terminology and translating with a CAT tool to feed/teach the MT thing specifically for that project. It turned out that my output (therefore the MT preparation) was good enough to exceed my standard hourly rate, so it was a positive experience moneywise. And the end-customer feedback was ok too. I have translated several tens (hundreds?) of thousands of words in various projects from that same agency in 2008-2009.
Last year, I also worked at a reduced rate of EUR0.07 on a smaller project for testing purposes with another agency. I earned too little per hour and I (or the MT system?) even failed the QA assessment! With this last experience, I understand how reluctant people can feel about taking on MT projects, besides the boredom generated with such tasks.
In a nutshell, a fair rate depends on conditions upstream (MT system, preparation, etc.), and whether you are prepared to do boring, tedious work for days or weeks in a row, even with earnings that compare to standard translation.
Besides, you can hardly anticipate MT "fitness-for-purpose", therefore your hourly earnings, before actually starting, even when the scope of work is clear. The risk of not being adquately paid is much higher than when you take on a standard translation job, and should be factored in your MT rate.
Philippe ▲ Collapse
| | | | | It should command a higher rate. | May 31, 2014 |
Reviewing and correcting MT should command higher rates because what you are providing should be expert consultant services which you are able to offer thanks to the accumulation of years of study, practice, work experience, etc.
Agencies who send out MT projects might use your corrected translation over and over.
This profession will not be taken seriously until "professionals" act accordingly.
Machine Translation is not ready for mainstream. Those who wa... See more Reviewing and correcting MT should command higher rates because what you are providing should be expert consultant services which you are able to offer thanks to the accumulation of years of study, practice, work experience, etc.
Agencies who send out MT projects might use your corrected translation over and over.
This profession will not be taken seriously until "professionals" act accordingly.
Machine Translation is not ready for mainstream. Those who want to improve it, should pay accordingly.
Ethical companies should provide industry glossaries to translators and then pay translators fairly, our job is more than being a human dictionary and if we do not educate the end client, the profession will suffer. ▲ Collapse
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| How is an hourly rate going to solve your problem? MT = More Trouble | May 31, 2014 |
KateKaminski wrote:
An agency has asked if I will do some post-editing of MT for them. They suggest that it will not take long and would pay 50% of my normal rate.
Do you think this is reasonable?
Surely it depends on how successful the MT has been in each case and how specialised the text is?
KateKaminski wrote:
Reassuring answers Mar 21, 2013
I was quite uneasy about this offer.
I might suggest a compromise of charging my usual per hour rate - as it is essentially an editing job of a text which might be passable, but potentially needs to be completely re-written.
1) I don't call any of my rates "normal" rates. I suppose you mean a rate that you usually or often apply!? I always ask to see the original text or, in this case, you would need to see both, the OT and the MT version of the target text.
Then I would do a review and figure out how much work is involved. Even if the MT version is something you could work from - as some contributors in this thread claim is reasonable - you can't just edit that text without comparing every single word with the original text. If any MT word or sentence is not acceptable, you will have to change it and type it which amounts to more work than simply translating the original text once - and correctly.
It amounts to more work anyway because you have to read the OT, then the MT, and then you have to make changes - which is a different and mostly more labor-intensive task than to type a straightforward sentence.
The idea that editing from MT should cost less than what a "pure" translation should cost is IMO completely wrong, and to even suggest a 50% discount from your "normal" rate (which sounds like it is not one of your highest rates) is simply ridiculous.
So, in order to quote a price for MT editing, you need to take a hard look at how much work is going to be involved and the deadline the client is looking for. Then you can quote a price. Don't believe anyone who says it will not take long and we would pay 50% of your normal rate. That alone is reason enough (for me) not to work with them. It's an unprofessional statement and you're going to run into other problems, most likely when it comes to paying you or paying you on time.
This MT-editing business is most often a "new business model" (unprofessional) where translators are being tricked (if they let themselves be tricked) into accepting lower rates so that the agency can get a bigger share of the profit. Others might think differently and that;s okay with me. I don't have to..
In any case, don't let an agency or any client tell you how easy or hard it is to do something or how much they are going to pay for it. Those are two absolute no-no's.
2) Even if you suggest an hourly rate for this work, you'll need to know how many hours it is going to take you and what the total price will be based on the deadline. Your client is going to want to know that information before they agree to that hourly rate.
And I very much doubt that they would accept your rate if you make a reasonable and professional proposal to them. That's not what they're looking for.
Editing MT translations? No thank you!
Can you give us an update on your decision/experience, Kate? Thank you.
B
[Edited at 2014-05-31 18:01 GMT]
| | | | Kate Tomkins
Local time: 05:34
German to English
TOPIC STARTER | I did not do any MT editing in the end | Jun 1, 2014 |
Hello Bernhard,
I fully agree with your post, apart from the part about the agency being one who should be avoided. I do still work for them (doing the old-fashioned style of translation) and overall, they are a fantastic agency. That is why it is all the more worrying that they launched into this MT post-processing venture so eagerly.
As far as I know, the agency is still offering this service and is very enthusiastic about being one of the market leaders in this area.... See more Hello Bernhard,
I fully agree with your post, apart from the part about the agency being one who should be avoided. I do still work for them (doing the old-fashioned style of translation) and overall, they are a fantastic agency. That is why it is all the more worrying that they launched into this MT post-processing venture so eagerly.
As far as I know, the agency is still offering this service and is very enthusiastic about being one of the market leaders in this area.
I for one was unwilling to scan through a text translated by a machine to check whether anything "seemed wrong". I like to do some research on the product, company or subject in question and ensure that the vocabulary and tone used in the target text is appropriate. However, I suppose this must be unimportant to some clients who prioritise their budget. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | | | I would charge my normal rates | Jun 2, 2014 |
I have never accepted MT post-editing jobs before, but if one day I do, I think I wouldn't charge less than my normal translation rates as I would have to re-write everything from scratch any way...
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