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MT and Confidentiality Agreements
Thread poster: TranslationB (X)

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:39
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
We don't know what the exact text was - it was not quoted Sep 10, 2011

Jeff Allen wrote:

Yes, Katalin, the agreement statement you provided above (I've shortened to key statements) is OK.
But from what I understand in following up, this does not seem to be the same statement that was provided in the agreement that is mentioned at the beginning of this thread. It is more restrictive to MT software in general from what I understand.

Jeff


Bold emphasis is mine.
The point is, that we do not have a clear understanding of what the exact text was in the agreement the OP was talking about. The OP did not quote it, rather paraphrased it, using his own interpretation. I am not saying it is not true, but without seeing the actual text, our "understanding" is based on assumptions.

I quoted the exact text of the agreement I saw because the description of the company fit, as it is a large, well-known LSP, and even if it is not the same company, it is big enough to be part of an association of companies the OP talked about.

I also wanted to give an example of what is (in my opinion, but it looks like in yours, too) a reasonable restriction in such an agreement.

Katalin


 

TranslationB (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:39
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Text tanslation Sep 10, 2011

The actual text (in quick translation) reads:

The Collaborator is expressly prohibited from publishing
or disseminating on the Internet, texts, documents or information - even in
part – which are the subject of individual assignments; uploading onto
machine translation systems on the internet of texts and documents - even in
part - which are the subject of individual assignments; use of machine
translation software; indexing of those files from s
... See more
The actual text (in quick translation) reads:

The Collaborator is expressly prohibited from publishing
or disseminating on the Internet, texts, documents or information - even in
part – which are the subject of individual assignments; uploading onto
machine translation systems on the internet of texts and documents - even in
part - which are the subject of individual assignments; use of machine
translation software; indexing of those files from search engines.
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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:39
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
OK! Sep 11, 2011

TranslationBox wrote:
The Collaborator is expressly prohibited from publishing
or disseminating on the Internet, texts, documents or information - even in
part – which are the subject of individual assignments; uploading onto
machine translation systems on the internet of texts and documents - even in
part - which are the subject of individual assignments; use of machine
translation software; indexing of those files from search engines.

Makes total sense to me!


 

German Legal
Canada
Local time: 08:39
English to German
+ ...
Differentiation needed Sep 11, 2011

"TranslationBox wrote:
The Collaborator is expressly prohibited from ... uploading onto
machine translation systems on the internet of texts and documents ... use of machine
translation software; indexing of those files from search engines. "

Agencies or clients in general are, of course, free to stipulate their terms and conditions; however, I think that it is a huge difference between feeding the client's contents into "machine translation systems on the interne
... See more
"TranslationBox wrote:
The Collaborator is expressly prohibited from ... uploading onto
machine translation systems on the internet of texts and documents ... use of machine
translation software; indexing of those files from search engines. "

Agencies or clients in general are, of course, free to stipulate their terms and conditions; however, I think that it is a huge difference between feeding the client's contents into "machine translation systems on the internet" and the translator using the MT software for which he or she bought a license.
Working with my Systran license, for example, is nothing else but using a tool, just like a CAT tool.
When the goal of the provision in the agreement between the "Collaborator" (horrible word) and the agency is confidentiality, prohibiting MT software used by the translator under his or her personal license does not make any sense. And the clause above seems to be concerned with confidentiality, not quality issues.
Inge, Canada


[Edited at 2011-09-11 20:17 GMT]
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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 13:39
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Trusting your judgment Sep 11, 2011

TranslationBox wrote:
The actual text (in quick translation) reads:
The Collaborator is expressly prohibited from publishing or disseminating on the Internet, texts, documents or information - even in part – which are the subject of individual assignments; uploading onto machine translation systems on the internet of texts and documents - even in part - which are the subject of individual assignments; use of machine translation software; indexing of those files from search engines.


What the client is basically saying is that they don't trust your judgment in making sure that confidentiality remains intact while you consult internet resources during the translation.


 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:39
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Non applicable specific terms! Oct 18, 2011

Samuel Murray wrote:
So let's see if Google Translate's "additional terms" contain anything about this topic that supercedes or overrides the statements in 11.1 and 11.2:

I just want to add an important note here: the additional terms you refer to correspond to the terms of service of Google Translate Toolkit, so they do not apply to any use of Google Translate from APIs like the plugins added to many CAT tools.

Anything you translate with a CAT tool with a plugin built on the Google Translate API (i.e. all CAT tool plugins as far as I am aware) is subject to the normal terms, which grant Google all possible rights of reuse. Thus, by using Google Translate from a CAT tool, you are seriously compromising the confidentiality of any materials entrusted to you by the end customer! Beware!


 

Michael Moskowitz  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:39
Member (2004)
Russian to English
+ ...
Amen to Samuel and Tomas Dec 4, 2011

It seems that by using GT through a CAT tool may indeed result in Google retaining the source documents, even if only in segments. But Google Translation Toolkit clearly is NOT included in the list of the prohibited resources because, as Samuel pointed out, they are offering solid confidentiality of the documents in the Additional TOS (not sure how to highlight stuff here, sorry):

By using Google Translator Toolkit (the “Service”), you agree to be bound by our Google Terms of
... See more
It seems that by using GT through a CAT tool may indeed result in Google retaining the source documents, even if only in segments. But Google Translation Toolkit clearly is NOT included in the list of the prohibited resources because, as Samuel pointed out, they are offering solid confidentiality of the documents in the Additional TOS (not sure how to highlight stuff here, sorry):

By using Google Translator Toolkit (the “Service”), you agree to be bound by our Google Terms of Services located at http://www.google.com/accounts/TOS as well as these additional terms. Google may change these terms from time to time and post any modified terms at http://translate.google.com/toolkit/TOS.html. In the event of any conflict between these additional terms and the Google Terms of Service, these additional terms will govern with respect to your use of the Service. You understand and agree that if you use the Service after the date on which these terms have changed, Google will treat your use as acceptance of the updated terms.

Use and Deletion of your Content

By submitting or creating your content through the Service, you grant Google permission to use your content to improve or make available the Services pursuant to these additional terms, provided that Google will not disclose the subject matter of your content or make your content available on a standalone basis to any third parties without your consent. If Google displays your content to an end user, it will do so only according to the sharing rules below, and only on a translation unit basis. If you delete your content, Google will delete the content from its servers and will not use it for any additional improvements to the Services after the date of such deletion from its servers. The term “translation unit” has the meaning assigned to it in the XLIFF standard, and “displaying on a translation unit basis” means that a translated segment will be displayed only in response to fuzzy match search of the source segment.
Sharing your Documents, Glossaries, Translation Memory(-ies) and Ratings with others and terminating your Google account

Documents
Each document is only viewable by you and users with whom you explicitly share the document.

[Edited at 2011-12-04 23:46 GMT]

[Edited at 2011-12-04 23:47 GMT]
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Aurora Humarán  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:39
English to Spanish
Crystal clear Dec 29, 2011

Steven Capsuto wrote:

What Google is or isn't doing with the data is immaterial. We shouldn't be providing our clients' information to third parties, period, regardless of what those third parties do with it.




Exactly!


 

Daniel Grau  Identity Verified
Argentina
English to Spanish
Clarification on Google Translate Dec 30, 2011

This is what Google has to say about the Google Translate API (my underlines):

Does Google look or use the text I send for translation?
Google will not use any of your content for any purpose except to provide you with the service.

Will Google share the text I translate with others?
We will not share the content you translate with any other third party.

Does the Google Translate API support secure connections?<
... See more
This is what Google has to say about the Google Translate API (my underlines):

Does Google look or use the text I send for translation?
Google will not use any of your content for any purpose except to provide you with the service.

Will Google share the text I translate with others?
We will not share the content you translate with any other third party.

Does the Google Translate API support secure connections?
Yes, we provide SSL connection support for secure connectivity to the Translate API.

Does Google claim ownership of the content I send for translation?
Google does not claim any ownership in any of the content that you transmit in the Translate API.
...
Does Google use my data for training purposes?
No, Google does not use the content you translate to train and improve our machine translation engine. In order to improve the quality of machine translation, Google needs parallel text - the content along with the human translation of that content.

( http://code.google.com/apis/language/translate/v2/faq.html#confidentiality )

-----------------------------------------------

Furthermore, the Google Translate API v2 Terms of Service say (my underlines):

Submission of Content and Data Confidentiality. Google does not claim any ownership in any of the content, including any test, data, information, images, photographs, music, sound, video or other material, that you upload, transmit in the API. By submitting, posting or displaying content to or from the API through your API Client, you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to translate and otherwise use such content in accordance with the applicable Google privacy policies, for the sole purpose of providing you with the API and to ensure the functioning of Google products and services. We will not share the content you upload with any other third party. In addition, we provide SSL connection for secure connectivity to the API.

( http://code.google.com/apis/language/translate/v2/terms.html )
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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:39
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
The point of confidentiality agreements Dec 30, 2011

I really think that those who try to defend the safety of using Google Translate in any of its versions (API, Translator Toolkit, online free version) fail to see the point of their confidentiality agreements: customers expect us not to give their texts (source or translation) to anybody and in any form, because of the risk of uncontrolled use today or in the future.

Let's suppose we agree with a customer to keep a folder of confidential information on paper in our work location (ou
... See more
I really think that those who try to defend the safety of using Google Translate in any of its versions (API, Translator Toolkit, online free version) fail to see the point of their confidentiality agreements: customers expect us not to give their texts (source or translation) to anybody and in any form, because of the risk of uncontrolled use today or in the future.

Let's suppose we agree with a customer to keep a folder of confidential information on paper in our work location (our home or our office). If we split the folder and give apparently useless fragments of the information to our trusted neighbours for safekeeping, in the belief that the documents are perfectly safe, are we honouring our agreement? Not at all. The customer wants us to keep the papers with us and only with us for the purposes of doing the job. The consequences of a breach of the agreement can be tremendous.

Even if you feel that using Google Translate is an option for you, think twice, because you don't really know what the consequences in the long run could be. Keep confidential information within your own computers. Period.
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Phuong Luu
 

Aurora Humarán  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:39
English to Spanish
To Daniel Dec 30, 2011

Daniel,

It's a pity you did not attend a conference IAPTI organized in 2010. Dr. Guillermo Cabanellas (yes, the dictionary author) explained very clearly that translators are not allowed to use online machine translation. Even if GT doesn't ever even see what the documents are about and even if there is no leak of information, what is illegal is the mere fact of exposing our clients' documents to something the client has not authorized.

In another lecture we organized t
... See more
Daniel,

It's a pity you did not attend a conference IAPTI organized in 2010. Dr. Guillermo Cabanellas (yes, the dictionary author) explained very clearly that translators are not allowed to use online machine translation. Even if GT doesn't ever even see what the documents are about and even if there is no leak of information, what is illegal is the mere fact of exposing our clients' documents to something the client has not authorized.

In another lecture we organized this year (on uses of technology for the benefit of translators), we discussed this matter again, and this time the authoritative voice was Ricardo Chiesa's (sworn translator and lawyer). He was emphatic: even if you don't sign an NDA there is a sort of universal ethical principle by which it is understood that a professional should ensure the confidentiality of his/her client's information. A client can sue me if I use GT.

Regards,


Cabanellas is an expert on this matter.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillermo_Cabanellas
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Phuong Luu
 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 13:39
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Non-sharing in GTT Dec 30, 2011

Michael Moskowitz wrote:
But Google Translation Toolkit clearly is NOT included in the list of the prohibited resources because, as Samuel pointed out, they are offering solid confidentiality of the documents in the Additional TOS...

Each document is only viewable by you and users with whom you explicitly share the document.


One small problem is that the default setting for any uploaded file is "share", so you have to manually set it to "no share" every time you upload a file.

If you want to use GTT and ensure confidentiality, you have to (A) create a blank TM and (B) use it every time you upload a file.

A. To create a blank TM.

1. Log in with your GTT username/password.
2. Go to http://translate.google.com/toolkit/tmupload?hl=en
3. Type "NO SHARING" in the "Translation memory name" field.
4. Select the "Not shared with everyone" radio button.
5. Click the "Add TM" button. Answer "Yes" if prompted to create a blank TM.

B. To use the blank TM (do this for every uploaded file).

1. Log in with your GTT username/password.
2. Go to http://translate.google.com/toolkit/
3. Click the red "UPLOAD" button.
4. Before you do anything else, click the "Sharing" link near the bottom of the page.
5. Select the "NO SHARING" from the dropdown list of TMs.
6. Click "Choose" and choose the file to upload, and then click "Upload for translation".
7. When you see the translation in the two-column view, click the X to close it.
8. Press F5 in the list of active translations (so that your file appears in the list).
9. Select the translated file and click "Download".
10. After you downloaded the translation, select the file again and click "Delete".
11. Go to the Trash folder, select the file again, and click "Empty Trash".
12. Finally log out of your GTT account.

You have to select the "NO SHARING" translation memory every time you upload a file, otherwise GTT will share it.


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 13:39
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Aurora Dec 30, 2011

Aurora Humarán wrote:
Guillermo Cabanellas explained very clearly that translators are not allowed to use online machine translation. Even if GT doesn't ever even see what the documents are about and even if there is no leak of information, what is illegal is the mere fact of exposing our clients' documents to something the client has not authorized.


I suppose Mr Cabanellas always delivers his translations in person, never entrusting it to a courier service, the post office, or even his e-mail provider's ISP. Because none are authorised by his clients.

Ricardo Chiesa [said that] even if you don't sign an NDA, there is a sort of universal ethical principle by which it is understood that a professional should ensure the confidentiality of his/her client's information.


I fully agree -- and that is why it is important for translators to read the terms of service of the various online (and offline) services they use when dealing with their clients' information. And it is not "sort of" universal either -- it is simply universal... although I regularly encounter translators who interpret the principle of confidentiality very loosely.


 

Aurora Humarán  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:39
English to Spanish
... Dec 30, 2011

Samuel Murray wrote:

I suppose Mr Cabanellas always delivers his translations in person, never entrusting it to a courier service, the post office, or even his e-mail provider's ISP. Because none are authorised by his clients.



Hi Samuel,

With all due respect, yours is the same old argument I have read in many fora, and it's an incorrect conclusion.

Most clients send us an e-mail saying: "here goes the document, please have it translated by X day". It is understood that we will deliver to the same e-mail address the client used. That means that the client is establishing the way of delivery (not us). Whatever happens when the client sends the original (potential leaks) or when we deliver (potential leaks) is not our responsibility as we have in no way changed the modality the client is establishing (I send original by e-mail and you deliver translation by e-mail too).

We receive by e-mail. We deliver by e-mail as instructed by... the client! Period. That is all we can do.

However, we are not allowed to do any other thing (other than deliver as requested by the client). We cannot upload the document to an FTP (even when they promise 101% encryption and blah blah blah), we cannot use online MT, etc.

Regards,

Au

[Edited at 2011-12-30 13:16 GMT]


 

Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:39
Finnish to French
GTT vs. WFA Dec 30, 2011

Samuel Murray wrote:
If you want to use GTT and ensure confidentiality, you have to (A) create a blank TM and (B) use it every time you upload a file.

Just curious: what are the advantages of the GTT compared to Wordfast Anywhere?


 
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