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Off topic: Out, out brief candle! / How Macbeth eluded a bloodbath
Thread poster: two2tango

two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 07:39
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English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER
Grand finale, where Macbeth proclaims his views on some jobs Feb 26, 2004

I would have miss’d my freedom thereafter.
Some jobs will hurt you harder than a sword.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
creeps in the gray routine from day to day,
and all and every day we’re just their tools
till pink-slip day. You think you’ll handle,
you’re but a working shadow, a poor player
laboring every hour until one day
they will have you no more. You get expelled,
feel like an idiot, full of pain and fury,
and
... See more
I would have miss’d my freedom thereafter.
Some jobs will hurt you harder than a sword.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
creeps in the gray routine from day to day,
and all and every day we’re just their tools
till pink-slip day. You think you’ll handle,
you’re but a working shadow, a poor player
laboring every hour until one day
they will have you no more. You get expelled,
feel like an idiot, full of pain and fury,
and you’re left with nothing.

END


[Edited at 2004-02-26 16:21]
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Parrot  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:39
Member
Spanish to English
+ ...
Agree Feb 26, 2004

Ballistic wrote:

Get thee to a punnery...!


clap, clap, clap


 

Claudia Alvis  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 05:39
Member
Spanish
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Aye! Feb 27, 2004

Lord Quique wrote

I’ll remain with my Lady as a freelance!


Fantastic. Let me join the enthusiastic audience. Bravo bravo bravo.

Claudia


[Edited at 2004-02-27 05:35]


 

Elena Sgarbo (X)  Identity Verified
Italian to English
+ ...
Brilliant!!! Feb 27, 2004

Quique, Claudia:

My hat goes off to you both! What an excellent collaborative poem... quite insightful, yet very funny--- Thanks for the laugh!!!


 

two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 07:39
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English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for your gentle praise Feb 27, 2004

Claudia and I devised this funny idea of improvising on Macbeth, but with a translator's bias.

It ended blodless because the very talented first actress went into well deserved holidays. Duncan et.al. are thankful for that.

In particular my last posting was a desecration of my favorite Shakespeare, Macbeth's words upon learning of hi wife's death:

"She should have died hereafter;
Ther
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Claudia and I devised this funny idea of improvising on Macbeth, but with a translator's bias.

It ended blodless because the very talented first actress went into well deserved holidays. Duncan et.al. are thankful for that.

In particular my last posting was a desecration of my favorite Shakespeare, Macbeth's words upon learning of hi wife's death:

"She should have died hereafter;
There would have been a time for such a word.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. "

*****************

Would somebody be interested in playing this game? We could pick some known piece, or devise a vague plot (even using characters of different pieces). Each player would be the voice of a character and we could take it as far as our limited wits allow.

Any takers?

Enrique
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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:39
Russian to English
+ ...
In memoriam
To give thee thanks... ...not pay thee. Feb 27, 2004

I come belatedly to this Shakespearian epic.
This should go in Page 1 of this topic, between "Macbeth, act one, scene two" and "Keeping it on".

ROSS: The client hath doubtfully received, Macbeth,
The news of thy translation. When he reads
Thy personal invention of a word in flight,
His wonder and his praises do contend.
he thinks he knows this teRm, but knows it not.
It should be his, not thine! Angered with that,
He proofreads o'er the r
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I come belatedly to this Shakespearian epic.
This should go in Page 1 of this topic, between "Macbeth, act one, scene two" and "Keeping it on".

ROSS: The client hath doubtfully received, Macbeth,
The news of thy translation. When he reads
Thy personal invention of a word in flight,
His wonder and his praises do contend.
he thinks he knows this teRm, but knows it not.
It should be his, not thine! Angered with that,
He proofreads o'er the rest that self-same day.
He finds theE in the stout Norwegian ranks,
Nothing afear'd that this is really Swedish.
Strange images of death, as thick as hail,
Come winging to thee daily by email.
And not a one said anything in praise.
Ignored they all thy protests in defence,
And poured down scorn upon thee.

(Ross's speech which I have parodied above is followed by this from Angus, which I quote directly without changing a word of it.)

ANGUS: We are sent
To give thee from our royal master, thanks;
Only to herald thee into his sight,
NOT PAY THEE. (!)

[Edited at 2004-02-27 20:37]
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Marc Heinitz
Local time: 11:39
English to German
+ ...
nice one ;-) Feb 28, 2004


nice to see that Shakespeare is still doing the rounds
makes me glad that my Lit studies weren't a complete waste of time
but as I'm more of a Hamlet fan:
here goes:
(short but sweet)
"To translate or not to translate,
That is the question"

Slainte
Marc


 

Berni Armstrong  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:39
Member
English
+ ...
Kinglier - a play in five acts Feb 29, 2004

Kinglier Agencies farms out a big job to three translators after asking "Which one of you will do me the best, fastest and cheapest job?"

Ms Goneril and "Ronny" Reagan promise to keep to the deadline and charge the cheapest rate possible, while Cordelia gets thrown off the job for insisting that the deadline is too close and that the job could never be done for what Kinglier is offering.

Of course, amid a veritable storm of e-mails, Kinglier soon find out they have risk
... See more
Kinglier Agencies farms out a big job to three translators after asking "Which one of you will do me the best, fastest and cheapest job?"

Ms Goneril and "Ronny" Reagan promise to keep to the deadline and charge the cheapest rate possible, while Cordelia gets thrown off the job for insisting that the deadline is too close and that the job could never be done for what Kinglier is offering.

Of course, amid a veritable storm of e-mails, Kinglier soon find out they have risked their most prized customer (Roi de France & Co) on a couple of incompetents who in turn have relied on dodgy KudoZ answers from a user known as Edmund Barsteward.

Luckily, Cordelia has been secretly translating the whole project, working 18 hours a day, with the help of a ProZ Team she has formed with users "The Fool", "Gloucester" and "Mad Tom".

So, when the showdown happens as the two versions are presented to the proofreaders, the audience expect Kinglier to choose the best and most accurate, if slightly more expensive, version that Cordelia has co-ordinated.

However, this is tragic realism folks, so the client actually get to choose the version they will use. Of course they choose to bin both copies and go with one that will cost them "One Cent a Word" drawn up by two guys (whose expertise lies outside of the relevant field) called Rosencrantz and Guildernstern who operate out of the Cayman Islands.

Kinglier folds, deep in debt, while Cordelia and her companions abandon the translation field in disgust!

An everyday story of translating folk???
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two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 07:39
Member
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER
Update Mar 2, 2004

Great script, maese Berni!

As far as I know, Rosencrantz and Guildernstern were later killed in England because of a misstranslated letter, while Cordelia was having some sisterly problems of her own.

Q


 

two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 07:39
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English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER
Cordelia Mar 6, 2004

I find very moving the following words of fatherly love from the defeated Lear to his daughter Cordelia, as they are about to be sent to prison. And yet these humble wishes were not to be!


No, no, no, no! Come, let's away to prison:
We two alone will sing like birds i' the cage:
When thou dost ask me blessing, I'll kneel down,
And ask of thee forgiveness: so we'll live,
And pray, and sing, and tell old tales, and laugh
At gilded bu
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I find very moving the following words of fatherly love from the defeated Lear to his daughter Cordelia, as they are about to be sent to prison. And yet these humble wishes were not to be!


No, no, no, no! Come, let's away to prison:
We two alone will sing like birds i' the cage:
When thou dost ask me blessing, I'll kneel down,
And ask of thee forgiveness: so we'll live,
And pray, and sing, and tell old tales, and laugh
At gilded butterflies, and hear poor rogues
Talk of court news; and we'll talk with them too,
Who loses and who wins; who's in, who's out;
And take upon's the mystery of things,
As if we were God's spies: and we'll wear out,
In a wall'd prison, packs and sects of great ones,
That ebb and flow by the moon.


[Edited at 2004-03-06 03:21]
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Berni Armstrong  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:39
Member
English
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Depends on how you read it (or play it) Mar 7, 2004

On one level, Lear here is seeking to cement his reconciliation with Cordelia. But on the tragic level, it is an echo of his earlier speech where he rants and raves and threatens impotently "I shall do such things.... What they are I know not now... But they shall be the terrors of the earth!"
Then, he still had not come to terms with his new powerless status.

This scene shows that he is still not 100% aware of his true status, even at this late stage. No-one is going to let t
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On one level, Lear here is seeking to cement his reconciliation with Cordelia. But on the tragic level, it is an echo of his earlier speech where he rants and raves and threatens impotently "I shall do such things.... What they are I know not now... But they shall be the terrors of the earth!"
Then, he still had not come to terms with his new powerless status.

This scene shows that he is still not 100% aware of his true status, even at this late stage. No-one is going to let this pair just disappear into homely seclusion. Lear should know that. But we see here that although he has learned ONE lesson, he still has much to learn in terms of distinguishing reality from wishful thinking.

Lear is Shakespeare's masterpiece for me. You must get to see the Jonathan Miller production with Michael Horden and Frank Middlemass - (BBC Shakespeare series) - Absolutley brilliant. Only bettered by an earlier version with virtually the same cast, for the Open University.... but with a much "sexier" and believable Edmund
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two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 07:39
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English to Spanish
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Wishful thinking Mar 7, 2004

Berni Armstrong wrote:

Lear should know that. But we see here that although he has learned ONE lesson, he still has much to learn in terms of distinguishing reality from wishful thinking.


Dear friend, don't you think this is a demanding question for us all? May be a bit of wishful thinking is part of our survival kit, to help us face this tale that sometimes feels like it was told by an idiot, and signifying nothing.

My first (electrifying) contact with Shakespeare was Lawrence Olivier's Hamlet, that mesmerized me when I hit upon it being a teenager.

Thanks for sharing this.
Enrique


 

Berni Armstrong  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:39
Member
English
+ ...
Everyday folk can perhaps afford wishful thinking... Mar 7, 2004

but a King must always be conscious of the difference between reality and fiction. That is part of the message of the play. Yet Goneril (or Reagan) point out in Act One Scene One that their father has "ever but slenderly known himself". That lack of self-awareness is crucial to the development of the play. There are so many references to being blind to the truth in the play.... and of course Gloucester is literally blinded by his openness towards his bastard son.

You, or I, migh
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but a King must always be conscious of the difference between reality and fiction. That is part of the message of the play. Yet Goneril (or Reagan) point out in Act One Scene One that their father has "ever but slenderly known himself". That lack of self-awareness is crucial to the development of the play. There are so many references to being blind to the truth in the play.... and of course Gloucester is literally blinded by his openness towards his bastard son.

You, or I, might feel that a "life Lie" (to quote Ibsen's Masterpiece "The Wild Duck") is a most useful device in this "vale of tears"... but Lear is a King "and every ounce a king - or he should be.

Clinton might have been able to get away with being mortal like the rest of us. But back in Shakespeare's day, a ruler had to RULE or be swept aside by history.

On a personal level, if we identify with Lear, then Shakespeare seems to be arguing the opposite to Ibsen. That indeed the true human being must see things as they really are and not get caught up in illusions. I sense echoes of the I-Ching's "The Masterful person will do X, Y, or Z in these circumstances" behind the lessons Lear must learn. Though I am not arguing that Will was aware of the "Book of Changes", of course.

[Edited at 2004-03-07 20:03]
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two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 07:39
Member
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER
You are right, of course Mar 8, 2004

Dear Berni,

Of course you are right on all counts, but I still feel sorry for the poor old man in his hour of defeat.

Sometimes I feel being right is not so important after all.

Cheers,
Enrique


 
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