Off topic: Opinion on a sentence Thread poster: DjoulZ (X)
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DjoulZ (X) 
France
Local time: 10:35
English to French
Hello all,
I'm translating a fantasy book into French. I'm currently very angry as I've just reached a point where I can't stand the style anymore.
The sentence in question is the apex of all the difficulties I've encountered working on this book.
I've become so frustrated with this author that I find it more and more difficult to calm down and keep on working.
Context :
"He" = main character who has discovered that his lover is, in fact, a deamon. ... See more Hello all,
I'm translating a fantasy book into French. I'm currently very angry as I've just reached a point where I can't stand the style anymore.
The sentence in question is the apex of all the difficulties I've encountered working on this book.
I've become so frustrated with this author that I find it more and more difficult to calm down and keep on working.
Context :
"He" = main character who has discovered that his lover is, in fact, a deamon.
"her" = at first a beautiful woman who seduced "he" and convinced him he had magic powers
After a while, he discovers what she really is. Then she convinces him that he has, in fact, no power at all.
They fight. He loses the fight. She leaves him.
And now, here's the "annoying" sentence:
He could guess now that the reason he had been so unable to fight her had been because of what he had once thought her to be.
I'm not asking you to help me translate as I've found a solution, eventually.
I'd like your opinion on the kind of sentence you think this is. How would you describe it?
I'm not even sure of myself anymore.
The feeling that's been growing within me throughout this translation is that the author is mixing spoken American-English with old-fashionned terms to give the illusion of a literary text.
Am I looking down on the author? Am I just being arrogant? Maybe I'm just breaking down and need a rest ? Well, I know I need a rest, but I don't have the time to rest.
Thanks for reading,
Eagerly awaiting your comments.
PS: Sorry mods if my post sounds agressive, or even childish, but please note that I ticked the "off-topic" thingy. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | the sentence is awkwardly written | Mar 19, 2010 |
Hi. I understand your frustration if this is the writing style throughout the book. The sentence you quoted is technically correct--and I don't see any inappropriate mix of spoken vs. formal English--but it is written awkwardly. In particular, the use of the verb form "had been/thought" (I think that's past perfect) three times makes the sentence awkward. Also, the repeated use of "he/she/him/her" as opposed to the characters' names is a bit awkward as well. If I were editing the English text, I... See more Hi. I understand your frustration if this is the writing style throughout the book. The sentence you quoted is technically correct--and I don't see any inappropriate mix of spoken vs. formal English--but it is written awkwardly. In particular, the use of the verb form "had been/thought" (I think that's past perfect) three times makes the sentence awkward. Also, the repeated use of "he/she/him/her" as opposed to the characters' names is a bit awkward as well. If I were editing the English text, I would revise this sentence.
Hope that helps. ▲ Collapse
| | | | DjoulZ (X)
France
Local time: 10:35
English to French
TOPIC STARTER | awkward it is | Mar 19, 2010 |
Thanks for your reply, it does help.
I realize the sentence does not contain any funny mix of spoken and written language. This can be found in other parts of the book. But it is the writing style throughout the 100.000 words of that book.
Thanks again for confirming it is, at the minimum, awkward.
| | | | | "so unable to..." | Mar 19, 2010 |
This part is awkward, to me, and I think it is because of the use of "so" to qualify "unable". In my opinion, you either are able or you are not, period. You can be unable to do something to the degree that you might have wished, eg. "he was unable to fight her as successfully as he had wished" (not perfect but just to show an example)
Compare this: "The reason he had been so unsuccessful/powerless/ineffective in his attempts to fight her" - all of those adjectives are much more at ease ... See more This part is awkward, to me, and I think it is because of the use of "so" to qualify "unable". In my opinion, you either are able or you are not, period. You can be unable to do something to the degree that you might have wished, eg. "he was unable to fight her as successfully as he had wished" (not perfect but just to show an example)
Compare this: "The reason he had been so unsuccessful/powerless/ineffective in his attempts to fight her" - all of those adjectives are much more at ease with "so" as a qualifier than the verb "to be unable " is. That's what jumps out at me, at least. I'd be very interested to hear how your solution in French handled "so unable to" ...
As Yvette points out, the whole sentence, even if technically correct (but I'm not sure that it is, given the above) has to be read very slowly to be understood correctly.
Good luck with your translation, it would be fun to read more if you care to post, maybe it will help you release your frustrations! ▲ Collapse
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DjoulZ ,
I absolutely totally pity you if the whole book is like this!
I have never heard anything like "could guess" unless it was referring to a probability, which is not the case here. I mean, generally speaking, either you have copped on, or you haven't, right?
"so unable to fight her"....what's wrong with "powerless". The word "unable" has no colour to it at all....like, 'I was unable to contact BR this pm, so will again try tomorrow'.
T... See more DjoulZ ,
I absolutely totally pity you if the whole book is like this!
I have never heard anything like "could guess" unless it was referring to a probability, which is not the case here. I mean, generally speaking, either you have copped on, or you haven't, right?
"so unable to fight her"....what's wrong with "powerless". The word "unable" has no colour to it at all....like, 'I was unable to contact BR this pm, so will again try tomorrow'.
The last part of the sentence is careless from a psychological point of view because, before he actually saw through her "mystical witchery", he probably wasn't trying to fight her at all.
If I were you I would go through the facts and rewrite the book. It would take less time.
How about : When the veil of illusion finally lifted from my eyes, I saw her for what she really was; a nasty, manipulating, selfish little control freak. Still, grief welled up in my heart. The dream was destroyed. And now only the emptiness remains. Through gritted teeth I found myself muttering: "how could this be able to happen to me?". My Mom was right about her. I guess there could be one born every minute.
I teach English, as a foreigh language, so I have to be flexible with my students at times. Still, if one of my intermediate students handed up a copy like this, I would hand back the copy ask them politely to stop watching TV while they were doing their homework.
Ah well, I think I'm ventilating...after one short paragraph...I don't know what kind of state you must be in with the whole book to read.
As the author is most unlikely to accept your version of the fantasy book, your only option seems to be...settle down..and think of the money!
You have my sympathy and I wish you "bon courage".......you don't go to Yoga classes, by any chance?
Cheers. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | It's dreadful | Mar 19, 2010 |
I'm particularly irritated by "the reason .... had been because of ...", which is unbearably clunky and convoluted. Why can't the author just write "the reason .... lay in what he had once thought her to be"? Or just something beginning with "the reason ... was that ...".
It poses interesting questions for the translator, though, about whether one's job is to recreate this style or improve on it.
| | | | DjoulZ (X)
France
Local time: 10:35
English to French
TOPIC STARTER | Dreadful, that's comforting! | Mar 19, 2010 |
Many thanks for your support.
Honestly after writing my initial post, I just called it a day, "so unable" to bear this work anymore.
Here's the solution I've found, for the time being:
He could guess now that the reason he had been so unable to fight her had been because of what he had once thought her to be.
Il comprit alors pourquoi il avait été incapable de la combattre : il ne pouvait pas oublier ce qu’elle avait pré... See more Many thanks for your support.
Honestly after writing my initial post, I just called it a day, "so unable" to bear this work anymore.
Here's the solution I've found, for the time being:
He could guess now that the reason he had been so unable to fight her had been because of what he had once thought her to be.
Il comprit alors pourquoi il avait été incapable de la combattre : il ne pouvait pas oublier ce qu’elle avait prétendu être.
If this sounds awkward, feel free to tell me.
As for settling down thinking about the money: this job is not profitable at all. I don't even want to go into details about the rate per page... But rest assured that if the publisher offers me to work for them again, I'll ask at least a 50% increase on the rate, and I am being serious.
Recreating his style or improving it? I've chosen to improve it as I refuse to have my name mentioned if I can't be proud of my job.
Again, I must thank you for your support, it really cheers me up.
[Edited at 2010-03-19 20:06 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 10:35
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Structure, tone, Past Perfect | Mar 20, 2010 |
" He could guess now that the reason he had been so unable to fight her had been because of what he had once thought her to be. "
I see no flaws in this sentence, and the message is also quite clear, particularly after your introduction into the storyline.
The author chooses a particular sentence structure or style for a reason: tone, to enhance suspense, could be anything ( and thus paraphrased, it wouldn't make the same effect). The Past Perfect definitely has its nar... See more " He could guess now that the reason he had been so unable to fight her had been because of what he had once thought her to be. "
I see no flaws in this sentence, and the message is also quite clear, particularly after your introduction into the storyline.
The author chooses a particular sentence structure or style for a reason: tone, to enhance suspense, could be anything ( and thus paraphrased, it wouldn't make the same effect). The Past Perfect definitely has its narrative function and it's quite common in (novelist) narrations: either to stress something had happened before some other point in the past, or when talking about the far past ( you'll know which function it served here, based on the context of your novel).
[Edited at 2010-03-20 11:11 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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... there's little point in becoming angry or frustrated over the author's style. However, there is often too little contact between writer and translator. A question now and then to the writer about the meaning of a sentence is worthwhile. I have sometimes been asked to delete or rewrite a particular sentence.
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I'm a big fan of short sentences. Is there any way you could cut this sentence into two, while maintaining your current writing style?
The reason he had been unable to fight her was beginning to dawn on him. She was not what he had previously thought.
I do think though that this loses something in meaning as emphasis as compared to your version, and I'm inclined to agree with the others that, although long, your own sente... See more I'm a big fan of short sentences. Is there any way you could cut this sentence into two, while maintaining your current writing style?
The reason he had been unable to fight her was beginning to dawn on him. She was not what he had previously thought.
I do think though that this loses something in meaning as emphasis as compared to your version, and I'm inclined to agree with the others that, although long, your own sentence is not unclear or difficult to understand. It's just long! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | What about "resist"? | Mar 22, 2010 |
Gosh! It must indeed be infuriating to be translating 100,000 words of this kind of crapola! But, that's work, you know.
I agree. The original sentence is long and convoluted. Breaking it up is a good idea. And what about "resist" rather than "unable to fight"? - e.g. "He had felt powerless to resist her. Perhaps it was because of what he had once thought she was".
Best of mystical, daemonic luck!
Jenny
[Edited at 2010-03-22 14:11 GMT]
| | | | NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 04:35
Member (2002)
French to English
+ ...
Moderator of this forum | To answer your question, DjoulZ | Mar 22, 2010 |
I believe the translation you provided here reflects the idea perfectly and, unfortunately for the author, more legibly than the source. But it reflects the source, and that's what counts, along with your pride in a job well done.
Bon courage!
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