| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | Words that exist in only one language. Thread poster: Henry Dotterer
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Corinne Bono
France
Local time: 21:36
English to French
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I can not help you with a similar expression in the US or the UK, though there are some palatable ones in Ireland.
But the French say \"soupe au lait\" ( milk soup) for short-tempered and I started to wonder how many expressiosn where about milk and something bad around the world, admittedly not all transcribing exactly teh same concept or fact.
Quote:
On 2002-03-19 13:47, Parro
... See more I can not help you with a similar expression in the US or the UK, though there are some palatable ones in Ireland.
But the French say \"soupe au lait\" ( milk soup) for short-tempered and I started to wonder how many expressiosn where about milk and something bad around the world, admittedly not all transcribing exactly teh same concept or fact.
Quote:
On 2002-03-19 13:47, Parrot wrote:
So tell me, \"bad milk\"?
Since I\'ve known this expression, I have tried in vain to find something proper, so as to redeem the Spanish (my other nationality, after all) from being the only ones who have \"mala leche\". We\'re \"grumpy\" in English, but that doesn\'t last, it wasn\'t something our mothers rammed into our throats when their milk soured to account later on for a characteristic attitude to everyone and everything.
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| | | | darkeol
Local time: 21:36
Chinese to Italian
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I´m sorry, in these days I´m surrounded by PC that doesn`t support writing software for Chinese characters. I was wondering: is there in some language a verb that has exactly the meaning of wan(r) (have fun, spend some time, even visit in Chinese) and can be used in all its contexts as well? I´m pretty sure Italian has not such a verb and, for all I know, neither English or French have. I´d like to know something more about other languages...
| | | | Özden Arıkan 
Germany
Local time: 21:36
Member
English to Turkish
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| Milking the thread ;-) | May 10, 2003 |
Quote:
On 2003-05-05 01:37, Bono wrote:
I can not help you with a similar expression in the US or the UK, though there are some palatable ones in Ireland.
But the French say \"soupe au lait\" ( milk soup) for short-tempered and I started to wonder how many expressiosn where about milk and something bad around the world, admittedly not all transcribing exactly teh same concept or fact.
... See more
Quote:
On 2003-05-05 01:37, Bono wrote:
I can not help you with a similar expression in the US or the UK, though there are some palatable ones in Ireland.
But the French say \"soupe au lait\" ( milk soup) for short-tempered and I started to wonder how many expressiosn where about milk and something bad around the world, admittedly not all transcribing exactly teh same concept or fact.
It seems some expressions in Turkish also suggest a link between milk and human character. We have \"sütü bozuk\" for instance, which can be literally translated as \"bad milk\" and which is a rather offensive expression denoting immorality, a corrupt personality etc. Also, we have the saying \"human beings are fed raw milk...\" which means that one should not be so quick and ready to trust everybody.
I am clueless though, about the relation between cooking or pasteurizing and human character, but such expressions may suggest, if not always misogyny, a preoccupation and emphasized focus on the role of women as a mother. In Turkish we also have the concept of \"helal milk\", for instance. [Aha! \"Helal\" might be an example of an untranslatable concept here, and it should not be confused with the other \"helal\" -or \"halal\" as sometimes spelled in Western languages- which corresponds to the Islamic kosher.] \"Helal\" means, hmmm, for instance, when you \"give helal\" to someone for something, that means \"what I give to you [can be something material or not] is rightfully yours, you deserve it, so you owe me nothing for that\". So, if a person has been fed \"helal süt\", we understand that their mother has no regrets whatsoever for having fed them; that they deserve it all, being such a morally integrated, honest and true person.
And I do wonder the origin of the name of our galaxy. Can someone tell me what it\'s got to do with milk? The expression \"milky way\", makes no sense to me. Its Turkish name, on the other hand, is quite logical and makes much sense after all: \"samanyolu\", which literally is \"straw way\" 
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[ This Message was edited by: Xola on 2003-05-10 14:31]
[ This Message was edited by: Xola on 2003-05-10 14:36] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The Milky Way explained (sort of) | May 18, 2003 |
[quote]
On 2003-05-10 11:46, Xola wrote:
And I do wonder the origin of the name of our galaxy. Can someone tell me what it\'s got to do with milk? The expression \"milky way\", makes no sense to me. Its Turkish name, on the other hand, is quite logical and makes much sense after all: \"samanyolu\", which literally is \"straw way\"
[quote]
I don\'t see why \"straw way\" is more reasonable than \"milky way\". Both are rather poetic images which different cultures came up with when populating the night sky with mythical entities. It seems to me equally reasonable/equally absurd to speak of a big stripe of milk in the sky as of a trail of straw.
On the other hand, if you mean that the Turkish name makes sense to you because you know the story/mythology that it fits into(the origin and relevance of the straw), then you are correct to point out that the origins of the Christian/Latin/Greek name (Milky way or galaxy [which stems from the ordinary Greek word for milk]) are somewhat unclear. I thought that it was the trail of milk of a lactating cow, possibly Europa as she was chased by Zeus, but I am not able to find a single conclusive source of this. See, for example, the entry \"bull\" at http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/003Signed/SREmblems.html.
I also found the following article about the mythology of the milky way. \"In Irish legends the Milky Way appears as Bothar Bo Finne - \'The Track of the White Cow\'. Thinking for a moment about the source of milk and its characteristic colour makes this a poetic but rational extension of the Milky Way. In a recent article in The Ley Hunter [12] Nigel Jackson has argued that this links further to a wider European mythology in which the Daena or \'lactating cow\' acts as psychopomp empowering spirit.\" http://www.indigogroup.co.uk/edge/Royalrds.htm
Most interestingly see http://www.consultsos.com/pandora/f0927pht.htm which concerns the Indian god Shiva. Shiva is associated with the river of life, which is both the River Ganges and the Milky Way. Note the white bull.
On the same site, I found an explanation from classical mythology: Hera (or Juno--the mother goddess, and quite obviously a cow  tries to feed Hercules/Herakles and he bites her nipple, causing milk to spray across the sky) http://www.consultsos.com/pandora/f7239pht.htm I believe this image was also Christianized with Maria Theotokos in the role of Hera (obviously) and Christ as the child (equally obviously).
The fact that there seem to be bovo-lacto milky way legends throughout Europe and India suggests an Indo-European origin for the concept, especially if other language/culture groups (the Turkish straw way, the Chinese \"silver river\", which I do not think implies milk, etc) do not share the imagery. Why the Indo-European culture came up with this I don\'t know, I do not remember ever hearing that they were particularly cow obsessed (other than in India). I suppose it is just one of those contingent things: Once created - and spread by conquest/diffusion/etc. - the name has proved flexible over millenia - so flexible that we still use it now even though we have little idea of the reason
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Özden Arıkan
Germany
Local time: 21:36
Member
English to Turkish
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[quote]Graeme Currie wrote:
[quote]
On 2003-05-10 11:46, Xola wrote:
And I do wonder the origin of the name of our galaxy. Can someone tell me what it's got to do with milk? The expression "milky way", makes no sense to me. Its Turkish name, on the other hand, is quite logical and makes much sense after all: "samanyolu", which literally is "straw way"
I don't see why "straw way" is more reasonable than "milky way". Both are rather poetic images which different cultures came up with when populating the night sky with mythical entities. It seems to me equally reasonable/equally absurd to speak of a big stripe of milk in the sky as of a trail of straw. On the other hand, if you mean that the Turkish name makes sense to you because you know the story/mythology that it fits into(the origin and relevance of the straw), then you are correct to point out that the origins of the Christian/Latin/Greek name (Milky way or galaxy [which stems from the ordinary Greek word for milk]) are somewhat unclear. I thought that it was the trail of milk of a lactating cow, possibly Europa as she was chased by Zeus, but I am not able to find a single conclusive source of this. See, for example, the entry "bull" at http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/003Signed/SREmblems.html. I also found the following article about the mythology of the milky way. "In Irish legends the Milky Way appears as Bothar Bo Finne - 'The Track of the White Cow'. Thinking for a moment about the source of milk and its characteristic colour makes this a poetic but rational extension of the Milky Way. In a recent article in The Ley Hunter [12] Nigel Jackson has argued that this links further to a wider European mythology in which the Daena or 'lactating cow' acts as psychopomp empowering spirit." http://www.indigogroup.co.uk/edge/Royalrds.htm Most interestingly see http://www.consultsos.com/pandora/f0927pht.htm which concerns the Indian god Shiva. Shiva is associated with the river of life, which is both the River Ganges and the Milky Way. Note the white bull. On the same site, I found an explanation from classical mythology: Hera (or Juno--the mother goddess, and quite obviously a cow  tries to feed Hercules/Herakles and he bites her nipple, causing milk to spray across the sky) http://www.consultsos.com/pandora/f7239pht.htm I believe this image was also Christianized with Maria Theotokos in the role of Hera (obviously) and Christ as the child (equally obviously). The fact that there seem to be bovo-lacto milky way legends throughout Europe and India suggests an Indo-European origin for the concept, especially if other language/culture groups (the Turkish straw way, the Chinese "silver river", which I do not think implies milk, etc) do not share the imagery. Why the Indo-European culture came up with this I don't know, I do not remember ever hearing that they were particularly cow obsessed (other than in India). I suppose it is just one of those contingent things: Once created - and spread by conquest/diffusion/etc. - the name has proved flexible over millenia - so flexible that we still use it now even though we have little idea of the reason
was it not really obvious enough to you that I was being ironic? The icon, at least, I thought could be of help, hehhe... anyway... the links you provide are great, thanks, just a richness of information about things I do enjoy. Maybe the keyword here is "bluish whiteness suggestive of milk". Now it makes more sense to me honestly, and I've come to think that "milky way" is not all that absurd anyway... Unfortunately, I couldn't yet find any info on the origin of the "straw way", I have no idea who and why had come up with that concept, but it might be due to the yellowish halo we sometimes see around celestial bodies. I can only say that "straw" sounds extremely romantic in Turkish when used in this context :0
| | | | DGK T-I
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:36
Georgian to English
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| Perhaps...... | Jun 19, 2003 |
Unfortunately, I couldn't yet find any info on the origin of the "straw way", I have no idea who and why had come up with that concept, but it might be due to the yellowish halo we sometimes see around celestial bodies. I can only say that "straw" sounds extremely romantic in Turkish when used in this context
Perhaps the heavens are scattered with etherial straw for the celestial cows ?
Thank you for bringing new light to my view of the nightsky.
Giuli
[Edited at 2003-07-25 03:37]
| | | | AI.Keijer (X)
Netherlands
Local time: 21:36
English to Dutch
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Daina Jauntirans wrote:
I would like to know from others whether this German/Austrian concept (don't know whether this applies to Switzerland or not) is used elsewhere: "Geisterfahrer", defined as a person driving the wrong way down the highway. My friends in Austria asked how to say Geisterfahrer in English, and I told them we didn't do that often enough to have a separate word for the concept (in the US). But if you've spent time there or in Germany, you know that you hear announcements warning you of Geisterfahrer on the radio all the time!
:)
Daina
The concept is also used in Dutch, and it's the exact translation of the word; Gheister (= Spook) + Fahrer (= rijder). I don't know any translation to other languages, though.
| | | | CHENOUMI (X)
English to French
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| Mazora, Zoklo, Twòkèt, Zonbi and many more... | Jul 25, 2003 |
Not one word, but many untranslatable from Creole *HC*, most particularly.
Last year, I started compiling a list of untranslatable Creole words. I've gathered 20 so far, listed in my "Untranslatable" glossary here http://www.proz.com/?sp=mt&eid_s=15901&glossary=3641&justgloss=1&float=y.
In... See more Not one word, but many untranslatable from Creole *HC*, most particularly.
Last year, I started compiling a list of untranslatable Creole words. I've gathered 20 so far, listed in my "Untranslatable" glossary here http://www.proz.com/?sp=mt&eid_s=15901&glossary=3641&justgloss=1&float=y.
In this topic, http://yourdictionary.proz.com/topic/12762, I have given the meaning of the words "Krik"(used by a storyteller) addressing his audience and "Krak", the response he gets from a very enthusiastic crowd.
Mazora = Name given to a child who is missing front teeth (who has lost his fairy tooth), and by extrapolation to an adult who has lost one of his, but mainly used for children;
Zoklo = a stroke with the knuckles on someone's head or forehead;
Twòkèt = A rolled-up piece of cloth used by female merchants as a protective cushion to carry baskets, buckets etc. on their heads.
Tchwip = a loud sound of disgust/ made with the lips in despise, disapproval/ disagreement or frustration.
and the most famous of all:
Zonbi..........
On a related note, it's worth mentioning the word Timoun. It means child. It's not a true untranslatable word, but the only word that describes a child by what s/he actually is. "Timoun" in Creole literally means Little person (From "Ti" = little/small/younger + "Moun" = person). In a linguistic comparative study that I made for my B.A. studies, I compared HC with 150 languages, and HC was the only one that described a child as above.
Well, I better stop here. Hope my samples have been convincing enough.
Sandra,
Adding many cents ▲ Collapse
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Ulvija Tanovic (X)
Local time: 21:36
English to Bosnian
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| serbo-croat to creole (strange pair) | Sep 4, 2003 |
CHENOUMI wrote: Mazora = Name given to a child who is missing front teeth (who has lost his fairy tooth), and by extrapolation to an adult who has lost one of his, but mainly used for children; Zoklo = a stroke with the knuckles on someone's head or forehead; Sandra, Adding many cents
this is strange, I would not expect Serbo-Croat and Creole to have much in common, but both of the terms you cited above can be translated into Serbo-Croat, at least judging from your descriptions of them. I think it's just English that's the problem. Is there an adjective in English to describe someone missing some teeth? I suppose "toothless" would be closest, but that implies no teeth at all.
just as a bit of trivia
Mazora = "krezo" in Serbo-Croat
Zoklo = "cvoka" in Serbo-Croat
another bit of trivia>
in Serbo-Croat there are two terms for the milky way, one is a direct translation and the other refers to straw, but for some reason it is the "godfather's straw" and whereas this may seem somewhat logical in English where the word "godfather" looks like a play on "God the father", in Serbo-Croat no such reference is discernible.
| | | | RafaLee
Australia
Local time: 05:36
Spanish to English
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| Yes there are | Feb 17, 2004 |
darkeol wrote:
I´m sorry, in these days I´m surrounded by PC that doesn`t support writing software for Chinese characters. I was wondering: is there in some language a verb that has exactly the meaning of wan(r) (have fun, spend some time, even visit in Chinese) and can be used in all its contexts as well? I´m pretty sure Italian has not such a verb and, for all I know, neither English or French have. I´d like to know something more about other languages...
Actually, the Chinese word "Wan" has its Indonesian equivalent "main", which also means " to have fun, not to be serious, to have a trip, to visit". It is interesting, as Indonesian and Chinese come from different language family
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"Y así se fue...caminandito".
What we would describe as a "diminutive gerund" to express sort of a humble, slow, satisfied way of walking.
It is a word often used in popular songs and -perhaps someone can help me remember - it has also been used by our Jorge Luis Borges.
Since his books have been translated and I have not read them in English, I could use some of your help learning which the translation has been.
Claudia
| | | | Aurora Humarán (X)
Argentina
Local time: 16:36
English to Spanish
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| Borges: ..."estaba ahí, sentadita"... | Feb 24, 2004 |
Clau,
You probably refer to Borges` essay "Problemas de la Traducción". This is the posting were we talked about it: http://www.proz.com/?sp=bb/new&ViewTopic&post=43459#43459
Borges says:
Imaginemos una expresión muy común en español: “estaba sentadita”. Eso no puede decirse en otros idiomas. Ahí, “sentadita”, da la idea de una ... See more Clau,
You probably refer to Borges` essay "Problemas de la Traducción". This is the posting were we talked about it: http://www.proz.com/?sp=bb/new&ViewTopic&post=43459#43459
Borges says:
Imaginemos una expresión muy común en español: “estaba sentadita”. Eso no puede decirse en otros idiomas. Ahí, “sentadita”, da la idea de una chica sentada y al mismo tiempo abandonada ¿no?, bueno, “solita”. Tanto en inglés, como en francés, hay que buscar una variante. En inglés puede decirse “all alone”, que literalmente es “toda sola”.
This is what Ruth (Refugio) proposed:
She was just sitting huddled there, all by herself.
Tres maneras de acercarnos a lo que vos decis. "Just": simply. "Huddled": making herself smaller for whatever reason, encogiendose. "All by herself": almost a childlike quality to the expression, which 'all alone' lacks. Pero todavia no estoy satisfecha, tendria que pensarlo (o sentirlo) más.
Refugio
Au
[Edited at 2004-02-24 17:54] ▲ Collapse
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Chinexpert
Local time: 02:36
English to Chinese
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| Kreng Jai is not only in Thai. | Jul 27, 2004 |
We have a similar word in Chinese.
Boonpak wrote:
" Kreng Jai " In Thai
I'm not sure whether there is any equal word in English. But I once heard one westerner say " I can't find this word in my language " or sth .
When your friend offer to make you a cup of tea. This feeling "Kreng Jai" might happen in your mind. Not because you don't want a cup of tea. But you feel that your friend don't need to spend their effort for your own affair.
If there is a word in English equal to this word plz let me know ( by postings)
| | | | EKM
Sweden
Local time: 21:36
English to Swedish
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Swedish has a pretty exact equivalent of "Gemütlichkeit" - in fact it is undoubtedly a loan from German - "gemytlighet". The Danish word "hygge" is very close to Swedish "mysa".
Kreng jai is a very specific concept in Thailand, but some aspects of "kreng jai" in Thai can be covered by Swedish - particularly
kee kreng jai - (approximate English translation is 'who by their nature is considerate or hesitates/cringes/feels embarrased at the thought of imposing themselve... See more Swedish has a pretty exact equivalent of "Gemütlichkeit" - in fact it is undoubtedly a loan from German - "gemytlighet". The Danish word "hygge" is very close to Swedish "mysa".
Kreng jai is a very specific concept in Thailand, but some aspects of "kreng jai" in Thai can be covered by Swedish - particularly
kee kreng jai - (approximate English translation is 'who by their nature is considerate or hesitates/cringes/feels embarrased at the thought of imposing themselves on others') - 'försynt' in Swedish
mai ruujak kreng jai - inconsiderate, intimidating, in lack of tact/finesse/consideration of other people's needs and feelings - 'taktlös' or 'burdus'
mai tong kreng jai - an equivalent saying exists in a Western Swedish dialect (but not in my own dialect) - Var nu inte så storbjuden! . ▲ Collapse
| | | | EKM
Sweden
Local time: 21:36
English to Swedish
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| Milky Way - Vintergatan (the Winter Street) | Aug 30, 2004 |
In Swedish, the Milky Way is referred to as Vintergatan - the Winter Street. This is probably because it cannot be seen clearly during the Swedish summer (it is too light!) and because it can be construed to resemble snowflakes... I have always loved the sound of this word in Swedish - I would guess that the breathtaking beauty of this phenomenon induces similar feelings in most of us...?
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