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Can a client legally reject you because of your religion?
Thread poster: Eric Stone
Natasha Ziada (X)
Natasha Ziada (X)  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 11:15
English to Dutch
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? Feb 3, 2017

Uhm, why exactly?

Alvaro Espantaleon wrote:

If you are a christian, then, yes, it is ok to discriminate you. That's called positive discrimination and it is a very good thing.

[Edited at 2017-02-03 08:07 GMT]


 
Samuel Murray
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Netherlands
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@Alvaro Feb 3, 2017

Alvaro Espantaleon wrote:
If you are a christian, then, yes, it is ok to discriminate you. That's called positive discrimination...


I'm not sure what you mean by "discriminate a person". The word "discriminate" needs a preposition in English. It's not a transitive verb.

You can discriminate between, against, in favour of, etc, and you can discriminate by itself, but you can't discriminate a thing or a person. So I'm not sure what you meant in your post: did you mean that it's okay to discriminate *against* Christians or that it's okay to discriminate *in favour of* Christians?

Neither would make sense, however, since:

1. Wikipedia sums it up nicely: Affirmative action (known as "reservation" in India and Nepal, "positive discrimination" in the UK, and in a narrower context "employment equity" in Canada and South Africa) is the policy of favoring members of a disadvantaged group who suffer or have suffered from discrimination within a culture.

If you meant "in favour of": in neither Taiwan nor the United States is Christians a currently or previously disadvantaged group. Christians form a small minority in Taiwan but they are not persecuted.

2. Positive discrimination is not a policy of deliberately disfavouring a currently or previously advantaged group, but of deliberately favouring a currently or previously disadvantaged group.

If you meant "against": positive discrimination doesn't mean "since Christians are currently or previously advantaged, we should favour hiring non-Christians".


 
Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno
Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 02:15
Member (2015)
English to Spanish
.. Feb 3, 2017

Samuel Murray wrote:

Alvaro Espantaleon wrote:
If you are a christian, then, yes, it is ok to discriminate you. That's called positive discrimination...


I'm not sure what you mean by "discriminate a person". The word "discriminate" needs a preposition in English. It's not a transitive verb.

You can discriminate between, against, in favour of, etc, and you can discriminate by itself, but you can't discriminate a thing or a person. So I'm not sure what you meant in your post: did you mean that it's okay to discriminate *against* Christians or that it's okay to discriminate *in favour of* Christians?

Neither would make sense, however, since:

1. Wikipedia sums it up nicely: Affirmative action (known as "reservation" in India and Nepal, "positive discrimination" in the UK, and in a narrower context "employment equity" in Canada and South Africa) is the policy of favoring members of a disadvantaged group who suffer or have suffered from discrimination within a culture.

If you meant "in favour of": in neither Taiwan nor the United States is Christians a currently or previously disadvantaged group. Christians form a small minority in Taiwan but they are not persecuted.

2. Positive discrimination is not a policy of deliberately disfavouring a currently or previously advantaged group, but of deliberately favouring a currently or previously disadvantaged group.

If you meant "against": positive discrimination doesn't mean "since Christians are currently or previously advantaged, we should favour hiring non-Christians".


To discriminate" has a clear meaning in its own right and "discriminate against" has a different meaning with clear connotations of opprobrium or unfavorable action which are not expressly conveyed by "discriminate" alone. .

By itself "discriminate " does not have any sense of assigning relative values - it just carries the sense of having distinguished a difference, and perhaps of having acted differently due to a distinguished difference, but still not in a positive or negative sense. Properly it implies "discriminated between".

Also, "discriminated against" indicates that there is a corresponding and inseparable "discriminated in favour of" taking place simultaneously. The two may be seen as "different faces of the same coin, but not necessarily so.


 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
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English to Afrikaans
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@Tomás Feb 3, 2017

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
If they are a religious organization, clearly they will want that their translators practice their religion in particular [because]they need a translator who is very acquainted with the religion in question.


But that is false logic, Tomás. The fact that someone is a believer in a certain religion does not make him an expert at that religion. In fact, I think most people who are believers in a religion actually know very little about their religion. They know enough to practice the religion, but they are not experts at the religion.

What's more, in book-based religions, some of the best experts on those religions are not actually adherents of the religion. Also, the fact that someone is not a believer does not mean that they will be prejudiced when dealing with aspects of the religion (in the same way that a non-vegan is no less likely to faithfully translate a vegan text, if he is an expert at veganism).

The logic would only be sound if the client believes that the translator will be guided by the hand of his god during the translation process. And yes, some religions are quite superstitious about that, but despite the fact that I personally acknowledge the ability of one particular god to do exactly that, I don't think it usually happens that way. (-:


[Edited at 2017-02-03 09:54 GMT]


 
Samuel Murray
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@Alvaro Feb 3, 2017

Alvaro Espantaleon wrote:
To discriminate" has a clear meaning in its own right and...
By itself "discriminate " does not have any sense of assigning...
Also, "discriminated against" indicates that there is a...


You are quoting a post on english.stackexchange.com by Russel McHahom whose post was a response to the question whether "They are discriminated because of their skin colour" is correct in English. If you read further down Russel's post, you'll notice that he gives some examples of the use of "discriminate" without a preposition, but in none of his examples is the verb "discriminate" used transitively.

But the main point of my previous reply was not to debate whether or not "discriminate" can be used transitively or not, but to clarify what you yourself meant. Did you mean "It's okay to discriminate against Christians [in the original poster's case]" or "It's okay to discriminate in favour of Christians"?


[Edited at 2017-02-03 09:54 GMT]


 
EvaVer (X)
EvaVer (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:15
Czech to French
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I agree, but... Feb 3, 2017

Jo Macdonald wrote:

From a legal and moral point of view I have to agree with Tom but from a practical point of view I can imagine a religious group preferring someone who shares their religious beliefs to write their translations rather than someone who doesn't.


[Edited at 2017-02-02 17:53 GMT]

My mother used to say "you need a Jew to translate Christian blah-blah right". You can know the subject without believing it, but I can understand that a religious group can have a problem with it. The question is: DO YOU REALLY WANT TO WORK FOR SUCH PEOPLE?


 
Annamaria Amik
Annamaria Amik  Identity Verified
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Romanian to English
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Spiritual considerations Feb 3, 2017

Samuel Murray wrote:

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
If they are a religious organization, clearly they will want that their translators practice their religion in particular [because]they need a translator who is very acquainted with the religion in question.


But that is false logic, Tomás. The fact that someone is a believer in a certain religion does not make him an expert at that religion. In fact, I think most people who are believers in a religion actually know very little about their religion. They know enough to practice the religion, but they are not experts at the religion.


I agree with what Tomás said and I agree with Samuel's reply, too - believers are certainly not necessarily academic experts in that religion.

Samuel Murray wrote:
The logic would only be sound if the client believes that the translator will be guided by the hand of his god during the translation process. And yes, some religions are quite superstitious about that, but despite the fact that I personally acknowledge the ability of one particular god to do exactly that, I don't think it usually happens that way. (-:


Well, I guess herein lies the big difference. For those religions, this belief is not just superstition, but something almost palpably real They are fully entitled to want someone who is both properly qualified AND a practicing believer.


 
MM^^
MM^^  Identity Verified
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Chinese to French
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Law Feb 3, 2017

I think that a public body cannot reject anyone because of his religion because of the principe of equality, but private bodies can.

 
Samuel Murray
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Netherlands
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English to Afrikaans
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Law in the United States Feb 3, 2017

MM^^ wrote:
I think that a public body cannot reject anyone because of his religion because of the principle of equality, but private bodies can.


It is my understanding that the United States law about discrimination of this type applies to both public and private bodies. It does not only apply to government bodies.


 
Jenna Porter-Jacek
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United States
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Spanish to English
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Independent contractors aren't protected by anti-discrimination laws Feb 4, 2017

Are you applying to be a potential employee of the company or a potential independent contractor? This makes a difference under U.S. law.

Please see: https://www.eeoc.gov/employers/coverage.cfm

"People who are not employed by the employer, such as independent contractors, are not covered by the anti-discrimination laws."


 
Eric Stone
Eric Stone
Taiwan
Local time: 09:15
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Feb 4, 2017

Thanks to everyone for your two cents.

Jenna Porter-Jacek wrote:
"People who are not employed by the employer, such as independent contractors, are not covered by the anti-discrimination laws."


I believe I am considered an independent contractor as I would be working with the client as a freelancers, so I guess you've given me my answer Jenna, thanks!


 
2GT
2GT  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 02:15
English to Italian
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OT: Lethal Weapon II Feb 4, 2017

This thread reminded me a funny scene of discrimination in Lethal Weapon II.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkJnc0mlhIw

Enjoy!


 
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Can a client legally reject you because of your religion?







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