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When is it okay to pretend you've got a PhD?
Thread poster: Dylan J Hartmann
Sarah Elizabeth
Sarah Elizabeth  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 20:07
Italian to English
This is not pretending to have a PhD, II Oct 25, 2018

I wouldn't interpret someone saying that they've studied X, Y, Z at PhD level to mean that they have a PhD. I would take it to mean that they did coursework at the doctoral level and specifically did not complete the PhD.

-Sarah


Irene McClure
Sheila Wilson
Roni_S
Michele Fauble
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Alejandro Cavalitto
Alejandro Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 16:07
Member (2008)
English to Spanish
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Let's keep this discussion within site rules Oct 26, 2018

Hello,

I just wanted to remind everyone to keep this discussion within site rules, https://www.proz.com/rules

Thank you for your cooperation.

Best regards,
Alejandro


 
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DZiW (X)
DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
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tunnel vision Oct 27, 2018

Dylan, did you get a reply from the uni regarding "at a PhD level" interpretations? Besides--as a user and a moderator--why don't you report the "alleged professor" to the ProZ, so they'll examine "the issue" here too?

Shortly, that deemed PhD is out of the question, let alone I happen to know people who [proudly] "bought" their BA/MA/PhD, so what?--Even not sure which could be worse...

Of course, I see your POV, but not your reasoning; I checked the colleagues r
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Dylan, did you get a reply from the uni regarding "at a PhD level" interpretations? Besides--as a user and a moderator--why don't you report the "alleged professor" to the ProZ, so they'll examine "the issue" here too?

Shortly, that deemed PhD is out of the question, let alone I happen to know people who [proudly] "bought" their BA/MA/PhD, so what?--Even not sure which could be worse...

Of course, I see your POV, but not your reasoning; I checked the colleagues replies, yet I would like to hear from the uni and the staff

[Edited at 2018-10-29 01:16 GMT]
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Dylan J Hartmann
Dylan J Hartmann  Identity Verified
Australia
Member (2014)
Thai to English
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MODERATOR
TOPIC STARTER
Dealing with it appropriately Nov 6, 2018

I began this thread wanting to spark debate about how far is too far when exaggerating credentials, also to show why it's important for clients/agencies to demand to see copies of our credentials.

While I did use the example of one anonymous ProZian, it was used to highlight a fact that there may be many more claiming such things. While a bit of ambiguity might be deemed 'creative' to some, such opaque descriptions might cause others to miss out on good opportunities with clients lo
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I began this thread wanting to spark debate about how far is too far when exaggerating credentials, also to show why it's important for clients/agencies to demand to see copies of our credentials.

While I did use the example of one anonymous ProZian, it was used to highlight a fact that there may be many more claiming such things. While a bit of ambiguity might be deemed 'creative' to some, such opaque descriptions might cause others to miss out on good opportunities with clients looking for experts here.

There might have been some diversions from the above topic but overall it was a good discussion to have.

After reporting this issue to the university in question, I received the following response today:

Untitled




So, is anyone putting their hands up for "Senior ProZ.com Academic Integrity Officer" role?
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Arabic & More
Arabic & More  Identity Verified
Jordan
Arabic to English
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A matter of interpretation Nov 6, 2018

When they said they would "deal with it appropriately," this does not necessarily mean that they agree that any violation has taken place. "Dealing with it appropriately" could mean taking no action.

Just curious how you would list the fact that you had completed coursework (but not a degree) on your own resume. Would you not want to list any work you had completed? The person in question did not pretend to have a PhD.


Angie Garbarino
 
Dylan J Hartmann
Dylan J Hartmann  Identity Verified
Australia
Member (2014)
Thai to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
TOPIC STARTER
MPhil Nov 6, 2018

Amel Abdullah wrote:

Would you not want to list any work you had completed?


Isn't the MPhil an option for those who have done sufficient work but can't finish the PhD?


 
Michael Wetzel
Michael Wetzel  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 20:07
German to English
Hm. Nov 6, 2018

I found the profile in question, and the way it presents the PhD actually is extremely misleading. (This is a key point, because the anonymized and decontextualized version you presented here to try to make your point is not clearly misleading and makes you seem petty.)

If he holds a MPhil., then that would be an easy way to fix the problem. It would also be easy to phrase the bullet point with something like "Four years of XXX at PhD level" (or some slightly more elegant version of
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I found the profile in question, and the way it presents the PhD actually is extremely misleading. (This is a key point, because the anonymized and decontextualized version you presented here to try to make your point is not clearly misleading and makes you seem petty.)

If he holds a MPhil., then that would be an easy way to fix the problem. It would also be easy to phrase the bullet point with something like "Four years of XXX at PhD level" (or some slightly more elegant version of this). I think that would suggest to almost all readers that the degree was not completed. (That would not fix the SEO problem mentioned by Christine, but the world isn't perfect.)

Like Amel, I don't see what the university has to do with this: He has not stated that he has a PhD. ProZ or NAATI could presumably pressure him to stop misrepresenting himself. ... In fact, I think that facilitating feuds like this is the main reason why professional organizations exist. Please keep us informed when the Empire strikes back.

I also think the solution of encouraging potential clients to request more paperwork is significantly worse than the problem it is supposed to solve.
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Dylan J Hartmann
Dylan J Hartmann  Identity Verified
Australia
Member (2014)
Thai to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
TOPIC STARTER
Trying to avoid being petty Nov 6, 2018

Michael Wetzel wrote:

I found the profile in question, and the way it presents the PhD actually is extremely misleading. (This is a key point, because the anonymized and decontextualized version you presented here to try to make your point is not clearly misleading and makes you seem petty.)



Thanks for addressing this. It would not have been appropriate to present it in any way other than anonymized and decontextualized.


 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Pettiness Nov 6, 2018

Michael Wetzel wrote:

I found the profile in question, and the way it presents the PhD actually is extremely misleading. (This is a key point, because the anonymized and decontextualized version you presented here to try to make your point is not clearly misleading and makes you seem petty.)

For the record, I also just spent five seconds on Google finding this profile and I have to disagree. It even states specifically "3½ years towards".

I still don't get why the OP has made such an issue out of this (whether the guy is competition depends on whether he is a good translator, not his qualifications; otherwise the whole thing is academic), and I can't for the life of me understand why he didn't just message the guy in the first place, man to man, job done.

Michael Wetzel wrote:
I also think the solution of encouraging potential clients to request more paperwork is significantly worse than the problem it is supposed to solve

100% agree!


 
Michael Wetzel
Michael Wetzel  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 20:07
German to English
A tale of two pages Nov 6, 2018

Intent on proving my superior research skills, I just followed up.

I immediately hit the page you are talking about, although now I can't figure out how I got there. On that page (with all the translation samples), you are correct, there is absolutely zero misrepresentation.

However, the page I had found was a different one with a bullet list of selling points. There I think most reasonable people would understand the translator's statement to mean that he has a PhD a
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Intent on proving my superior research skills, I just followed up.

I immediately hit the page you are talking about, although now I can't figure out how I got there. On that page (with all the translation samples), you are correct, there is absolutely zero misrepresentation.

However, the page I had found was a different one with a bullet list of selling points. There I think most reasonable people would understand the translator's statement to mean that he has a PhD and not give it a second thought.

I also agree that Dylan's reaction to this issue and his commitment to this thread seems a little odd. However, this mystery is dwarfed by the enigma of my own interest and investment of time. What am I doing? I have work to do and, more importantly, I'm hungry. What am I doing?
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Jorge Payan
 
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When is it okay to pretend you've got a PhD?







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