| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Why don't I get work? Thread poster: Paul Dixon
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Paul Dixon 
Brazil
Local time: 16:14
Portuguese to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Booked course on introduction to CAT Tools | Jul 27, 2018 |
Just an update on my plans:
1. Booked introductory course on CAT Tools for 4 August in São Paulo, free of charge. Hopefully this will enable me to choose a CAT. From my knowledge and speaking to colleagues the best seem to be, in no particular order: Wordfast Anywhere, OmegaT, MemoQ. I would need a free CAT at least to begin with, and a tutorial as soon as I decide. (Sadly there are no places available on the course now, but the instructor has said that, due to the high demand, another co... See more Just an update on my plans:
1. Booked introductory course on CAT Tools for 4 August in São Paulo, free of charge. Hopefully this will enable me to choose a CAT. From my knowledge and speaking to colleagues the best seem to be, in no particular order: Wordfast Anywhere, OmegaT, MemoQ. I would need a free CAT at least to begin with, and a tutorial as soon as I decide. (Sadly there are no places available on the course now, but the instructor has said that, due to the high demand, another course could be arranged)
2. No answer yet about whether I could use a full-size photo for my profile or a 3x4. Will go to the cybercafé to scan the photo (I have a scanner but no-one knows how to install it, it's a Canon, a terrible brand) to get my photo changed. I will redo my CV as well, as my latest one was issued in March, hence could be updated.
3. For additional networking, planning a TIC Café in Jundiaí, no date set as yet. (TIC is a FB group called Tradutores, Intérpretes e Curiosos. TIC Cafés are informal coffee meetings and have already been held in Santo André and São Paulo). Anyone based in the Jundiaí area is welcome - in this case just join the TIC group on FB, when I have the date and venue I'll post it there.
Just one additional point:
I was asked why I have never worked in my degree fields. The fact is that there has never been call for them. I did translate one teaching book with a minor Mathematical element, and some Government papers on education, but nothing really specialised. Most of my work has been contracts, documents, medical documents and diagnoses, press releases, CVs, school documents (transcripts etc). The medical texts are particularly interesting, this could be an interesting specialisation - but would I need to attend subjects at medical school? ▲ Collapse
| | | | DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
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1. There's a number of updated manuals and quick tips for most CATs, not to mention video guides on YouTube and other sites.
Depending on the source file format, I prefer free (yet old!) Wordfast Classic 3.35x or free Wordfisher, free Anaphraseus (from free OpenOffice), or free online Wordfast Anywhere. However, almost all CATs have trial versions to get accustomed while hands-on exp.
2. Nowadays most smartphones are much... See more 1. There's a number of updated manuals and quick tips for most CATs, not to mention video guides on YouTube and other sites.
Depending on the source file format, I prefer free (yet old!) Wordfast Classic 3.35x or free Wordfisher, free Anaphraseus (from free OpenOffice), or free online Wordfast Anywhere. However, almost all CATs have trial versions to get accustomed while hands-on exp.
2. Nowadays most smartphones are much better at taking pictures/macro at 8+ megapixels; I often "scan" (digitize) texts in iPhone) ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:14
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Christine Andersen wrote:
If I had been translating the Harry Potter series, for instance, I would use Trados at once. All the characters' names (except possibly Ron and other very short ones) would go into the glossary as soon as they were mentioned. Likewise all the spells, place names and whatever else might be referred to later.
It is quick and easy to do, and then when anything is referred to later on, you can find it instantly.
I can't see why you want to memorise placenames and the names of people, which would be the same in the other language?
That is why agencies like CATs.
Agencies like CATS because they get the TMs from all their translators, for free, which they then pass on to other translators and pay them less. Agencies like CATS because because they make more money. And of course the poor translator has to pay for the CAT tool (every year).
they really are a distraction until you can use them without thinking about the mechanics all the time.
At least 50% of the Proz discussions are cries for help from people whose work has been brought to a standstill/lost/made more difficult by using a CAT tool.
[Edited at 2018-07-28 15:54 GMT]
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Tom in London wrote:
I can't see why you want to memorise placenames and the names of people, which would be the same in the other language?
Firstly, this isn't always true. More importantly, databases aren't just (or even primarily) for looking things up. They're also for saving time. So instead of having to write "Harry Potter" all the time, you just write "H", and the tool completes the phrase automatically, or you choose a number and the tool inserts it, or whatever. Many of the terms in my databases aren't there to remind me of things at all. They're common phrases that I can reasonably assume will come up again and again. Even (indeed, especially) the most basic things.
[Edited at 2018-07-28 20:12 GMT]
[Edited at 2018-07-28 20:28 GMT]
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Alistair Gainey wrote:
Many of the terms in my databases aren't there to remind me of things at all. They're common phrases that I can reasonably assume will come up again and again.
I regularly analyze my own TMs with glossary creation tools to see the most common sentence bits - I have a whole glossary of them, which I use for predictive typing. My fingers are grateful for it.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:14
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Basic misunderstandings | Jul 29, 2018 |
Tom in London wrote: That is why agencies like CATs. Agencies like CATS because they get the TMs from all their translators, for free, which they then pass on to other translators and pay them less. Agencies like CATS because because they make more money. And of course the poor translator has to pay for the CAT tool (every year).
Tom, just stop, for your own sake. You don't use CAT tools and you don't understand them any more than I understand, say, architecture. The difference is that I don't comment on architecture, but you're demonstrating your ignorance of CAT tools in public, and potentially misleading people who deserve better advice.
As I and other people who actually use CAT tools have repeatedly pointed out in these forums, anybody can create a TM, usually in a time measured in minutes, if they have access to a source text and its corresponding translation, whether or not the translation was created with the help of a CAT tool. It is a simple matter of matching one text against the other.
Whether the resulting TM is worth anything depends on the text in question. Usually, it is worth very little without the guiding intelligence of the translator behind it. That is why, in my specific case, I have clients who insist that I use a CAT tool, but who come back to me again and again with lucrative projects. I am sure the other proponents of CAT tools have similar experiences.
We're supposed to be professionals on this forum, hopefully mature and thoughtful individuals. Please, let's jettison the simplistic idea that CAT software is a wondrous helpmate that magically solves all translation problems, or conversely that CAT software is the expression of an exploitative conspiracy designed to rob poor translators blind.
Computer aided translation software is a tool designed to achieve a certain result more efficiently, like a circular saw, an electric hoist or a pickup truck. These tools augment human ability, they do not replace it. They are not the right option in all situations. Sometimes you need a tenon saw, a rope and pulley, or a handcart. The skilled worker selects the correct tool for the task to hand.
Ultimately, the issue is not whether CAT tools are good or bad, but whether clients are good or bad. An exploitative client will squeeze you somehow, even if you don't use CAT tools. A good client will make it a mutually profitable relationship even if you do use CAT tools.
Regards,
Dan
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Dan Lucas wrote: Tom in London wrote: That is why agencies like CATs. Agencies like CATS because they get the TMs from all their translators, for free, which they then pass on to other translators and pay them less. Agencies like CATS because because they make more money. And of course the poor translator has to pay for the CAT tool (every year). Tom, just stop, for your own sake. You don't use CAT tools and you don't understand them any more than I understand, say, architecture. The difference is that I don't comment on architecture, but you're demonstrating your ignorance of CAT tools in public, and potentially misleading people who deserve better advice. As I and other people who actually use CAT tools have repeatedly pointed out in these forums, anybody can create a TM, usually in a time measured in minutes, if they have access to a source text and its corresponding translation, whether or not the translation was created with the help of a CAT tool. It is a simple matter of matching one text against the other. Whether the resulting TM is worth anything depends on the text in question. Usually, it is worth very little without the guiding intelligence of the translator behind it. That is why, in my specific case, I have clients who insist that I use a CAT tool, but who come back to me again and again with lucrative projects. I am sure the other proponents of CAT tools have similar experiences. We're supposed to be professionals on this forum, hopefully mature and thoughtful individuals. Please, let's jettison the simplistic idea that CAT software is a wondrous helpmate that magically solves all translation problems, or conversely that CAT software is the expression of an exploitative conspiracy designed to rob poor translators blind. Computer aided translation software is a tool designed to achieve a certain result more efficiently, like a circular saw, an electric hoist or a pickup truck. These tools augment human ability, they do not replace it. They are not the right option in all situations. Sometimes you need a tenon saw, a rope and pulley, or a handcart. The skilled worker selects the correct tool for the task to hand. Ultimately, the issue is not whether CAT tools are good or bad, but whether clients are good or bad. An exploitative client will squeeze you somehow, even if you don't use CAT tools. A good client will make it a mutually profitable relationship even if you do use CAT tools. Regards, Dan
Sorry I have to disagree.
Mere facts:
- who bears the cost of CAT tools? translators.
-Do CAT tools improve your speed? In some cases, but
if it does, you'll soon be deprived of your gains and forced
to apply discounts.I have even worked with a company which
used to reduce the number of new words by 40% by using a CAT
and MT.
-Do CAT make it easier to transfer a project from one translator
to the other or from one translator to a NMT? The answer is yes.
It makes it VERY easy
Do you get paid for learning how to use a CAT? No.
Do CAT turn a translator into a modern day Charlie Chaplin?
The answer is yes. Have a look at the fora here on PROZ.
Mechanization shall have the same effects in the translation
industry as in other industries. One good example is agriculture.
What's the percentage of the population employed in agriculture nowadays in countries like the UK or France? Less than 5% whereas it
used to be 70% 50 years ago. We'll soon see the same effects in the translation industry. That's the trend.
[Modifié le 2018-07-29 11:27 GMT]
[Modifié le 2018-07-29 11:28 GMT]
[Modifié le 2018-07-29 11:33 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:14
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Dan Lucas wrote:
Tom, just stop, for your own sake.
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Dan Lucas wrote: Tom in London wrote:
Agencies like CATS because they get the TMs from all their translators, for free, which they then pass on to other translators and pay them less. Agencies like CATS because because they make more money. And of course the poor translator has to pay for the CAT tool (every year). Tom, just stop, for your own sake. You don't use CAT tools and you don't understand them any more than I understand, say, architecture. The difference is that I don't comment on architecture, but you're demonstrating your ignorance of CAT tools in public, and potentially misleading people who deserve better advice.
Well, I for one have been using CAT tools from the very first day I started translating, and I happen to concur with some of what Tom said, but probably, unlike you, I don't understand CAT tools (and why "agencies like" them) either...
As I and other people who actually use CAT tools have repeatedly pointed out in these forums, anybody can create a TM, usually in a time measured in minutes, if they have access to a source text and its corresponding translation, whether or not the translation was created with the help of a CAT tool. It is a simple matter of matching one text against the other.
Simple matter? Then I must've done something terribly wrong each time I tried to automatically align documents and ended up with a useless mess with hundreds of mismatched strings... (also considering that formatting and different punctuation between source and target tend to mess alignment up quite easily, among other things)
It is obvious that what Tom meant is that, while working (especially through a client's server), translators create (naturally well aligned...) TMs that clients will then reuse to pay subsequent translations (and other translators) less, among other benefits. That's a fact Dan, not delusions of an "ignorant".
That is why, in my specific case, I have clients who insist that I use a CAT tool, but who come back to me again and again with lucrative projects. I am sure the other proponents of CAT tools have similar experiences.
Exactly, "in your specific case". But using your "specific case" to generalize and single out others who apparently have different opinions doesn't seem a particularly sound approach. Oh, and saying that CAT tools enthusiasts are enthusiasts because they've probably had positive experiences with them seems quite the tautology...
We're supposed to be professionals on this forum, hopefully mature and thoughtful individuals.
Are we now?
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David GAY wrote:
Sorry I have to disagree.
Mere facts:
- who bears the cost of CAT tools? translators.
-Do CAT tools improve your speed? In some cases, but
if it does, you'll soon be deprived of your gains and forced
to apply discounts.I have even worked with a company which
used to reduce the number of new words by 40% by using a CAT
and MT.
-Do CAT make it easier to transfer a project from one translator
to the other or from one translator to a NMT? The answer is yes.
It makes it VERY easy
Do you get paid for learning how to use a CAT? No.
Do CAT turn a translator into a modern day Charlie Chaplin?
The answer is yes. Have a look at the fora here on PROZ.
Mechanization shall have the same effects in the translation
industry as in other industries. One good example is agriculture.
What's the percentage of the population employed in agriculture nowadays in countries like the UK or France? Less than 5% whereas it
used to be 70% 50 years ago. We'll soon see the same effects in the translation industry. That's the trend.
You will be exploited only if you let other people exploit you... it's a simple rule and it applies to CAT tools too.
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Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
You will be exploited only if you let other people exploit you... it's a simple rule and it applies to CAT tools too.
As well as slavery, dictatorships, globalization, etc. You name it. The secret is not letting others exploit you and you're golden.
| | | | | A couple relevant points | Jul 29, 2018 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
Computer aided translation software is a tool designed to achieve a certain result more efficiently, like a circular saw, an electric hoist or a pickup truck. These tools augment human ability, they do not replace it. They are not the right option in all situations. Sometimes you need a tenon saw, a rope and pulley, or a handcart. The skilled worker selects the correct tool for the task to hand.
My favorite analogy with CAT tools is the automatic transmission in a car. Some people can't drive a stickshift, others simply don't like automatics on personal preference.
Of course, in congested urban traffic, an automatic causes much less strain and stress. On muddy, icy, flooded, or otherwise challenging paths that require creative driving (like the translation of texts that require above-average creativity), the manual transmission is more adequate.
Dan Lucas wrote:
Ultimately, the issue is not whether CAT tools are good or bad, but whether clients are good or bad. An exploitative client will squeeze you somehow, even if you don't use CAT tools. A good client will make it a mutually profitable relationship even if you do use CAT tools.
Definitely!
Good clients either...
a) let you use - or not - whatever CAT tool you choose, as long as you don't leave any trace of it on your deliverables (like flawed delimiter cleanup on WordFast); or
b) if they have a team working on the same project, and/or a TM covering the required terminology or standards, provide you - for the duration of the project - with a portable license of the common CAT tool adopted, unless you already have your own.
Bad clients...
a) were gullible enough to believe that the most essential attribute in a translator is owning one very specific brand of CAT tool; and
b) want to pay you considerably less for the same work, by applying heavy discounts on fuzzy matches.
Would you insist in paying less for the same ride to a cab/Uber driver, if his car - which he paid for - had automatic transmission and power steering?
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Roisin Ni Cheallaigh (X)
Ireland
English to Irish
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| Why don't I get work? | Jul 29, 2018 |
I was asking myself the same question until I registered with www.proz.com and www.translatorscafe.com. I have paid membership with www.proz.com until 2023.
I have recently paid for 3 month subscription with translators cafe.
I have fi... See more I was asking myself the same question until I registered with www.proz.com and www.translatorscafe.com. I have paid membership with www.proz.com until 2023.
I have recently paid for 3 month subscription with translators cafe.
I have fifteen years of experience in translation, not in my field of Literary translation.
I wouldn't be without paid membership on www.proz.com or www.translatorscafe.com
I am also member of the translators association in Ireland.
I wouldn't be without a CAT Tool: Studio Trados for love nor money. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:14
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Uneven "facts" | Jul 29, 2018 |
David GAY wrote:
Sorry I have to disagree.
Mere facts:
-Do CAT tools improve your speed? In some cases, but
if it does, you'll soon be deprived of your gains and forced
to apply discounts.
That is not a fact. That is an assertion. For me, and clearly for many others, CAT tools do indeed provide gains that offset the impact of fuzzy matches. I have recouped the amount I have spent on CAT tools since I began my freelance career many times over - probably dozens of times.
I did one project last year that had a value of thousands of euro. The first 20% was hard work, the remainder was small variations. That one project has more than paid for every piece of software I have ever purchased in my translation career. There are many more in which the gains, while not as exaggerated, have been large.
And then there is the benefit of being selected by clients precisely because you use a CAT tool that slots nicely into their workflow. My clients tell me that a majority of other translators in my pair and my specialization are unwilling to use CAT tools. Great. All the more projects for me.
I have even worked with a company which used to reduce the number of new words by 40% by using a CAT and MT.
Why would you work for such a company? This simply proves my point about exploitative clients. Who is to blame here?
Regards,
Dan
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Dan Lucas wrote:
I have even worked with a company which used to reduce the number of new words by 40% by using a CAT and MT.
Why would you work for such a company? This simply proves my point about exploitative clients. Who is to blame here?
Regards,
Dan [/quote]
I've worked for this company (and still do on occasions) because
I was the translator and the instructions were to validate those ICE
matches. It was the proofreader's job to proofread these segments.
I have never accepted proofreading jobs from them.
But now, they have given up this practice.
Generally speaking, CAT tools are great tools for exploitative clients.
They leverage their greed
[Modifié le 2018-07-29 13:32 GMT]
[Modifié le 2018-07-29 13:35 GMT]
[Modifié le 2018-07-29 13:40 GMT]
[Modifié le 2018-07-29 13:42 GMT]
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