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The key steps to becoming a freelance translator
Thread poster: SamuelDJones (X)
Ilan Rubin (X)
Ilan Rubin (X)  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 20:29
Russian to English
Reminds me of... Aug 31, 2016

Rachel Waddington wrote:

polyglot45 wrote:

Most of the people active on this site are people who had no formal training in translation. Some, perhaps many, manage to make a decent living by having honed their skills over the years, good marketing, working long hours at low rates, being at the mercy of the agencies, etc.

HTH


Do you have any evidence for your assertion that those of us without an MA work long hours at low rates and are at the mercy of agencies?


Yeah, well "polyglot45" also wrote



"But if you want a good, satisfying and well-paid life as a translator (think rates from 0.25 € and upwards), then maybe a bit of initial investment is worth the price."



and then backpedalled 100% on this claim after I told them I would sign up for their MA course if they could provide the evidence of these rates.

Reminds me of slimming / getting ripped ads.


 
polyglot45
polyglot45
English to French
+ ...
backpedalled, my eye ! Aug 31, 2016

Sorry but I did not backpedal. I simply tried to correct potential misunderstandings.

I also said that Russian-English is not my scene and that I refuse to comment on things I don't know.

I NEVER said that if you do an MA, you will start your freelance career earning 0.25 euros a word. I said, not necessarily in so many words, that if you do not have the advantage of years of professional experience in a given field with the contacts and networks that go with this, then
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Sorry but I did not backpedal. I simply tried to correct potential misunderstandings.

I also said that Russian-English is not my scene and that I refuse to comment on things I don't know.

I NEVER said that if you do an MA, you will start your freelance career earning 0.25 euros a word. I said, not necessarily in so many words, that if you do not have the advantage of years of professional experience in a given field with the contacts and networks that go with this, then I always recommend a MA (from a reputed establishment, not some fly-by-night thing) before you embark on a freelance translating career.

One of the reasons that people like myself can command high rates is that we obviate the middleman: there are no agencies taking a cut of my earnings. I and others like me only work for direct clients.

The question is then, where do you go to get your direct clients and that is where I reply that you need a network, you need good references, and a good graduate schoiol is where you can start to acquire all these. It is all the more true if you wish to interpret because you will need to be part of a team and, to begin with, you will need seasoned professionals to ease you into the fold.

As others have said, you can get into the market through web platforms but you will be competing in Dutch auctions with all that that implies. And if you start low, it will be an uphill climb to reach halfway decent rates, especially if you work for agencies that will want their cut. It is purely mathematical.

People like Chris Durban write books and pamphlets on how to get started and, while I don't necessarily agree with all she says, she is right about the importance of networking. Take any reputed translation/interpreting graduate school and talk to its students, you will see that they did not have to flail around on their own to get started.

I'll stop there because I will only be repeating myself. No point in padding it out. Better to slim it down!

[Edited at 2016-08-31 12:01 GMT]
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SamuelDJones (X)
SamuelDJones (X)  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:29
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Any other relevant qualifications? Aug 31, 2016

Sheila Wilson wrote:

- Complete a MA in Translation
Certainly a good idea if you have the time and the money. But I see that you give no experience of speaking French in France on your CV (although you've spent time in Spain). It would be a really good move for you to do an MA there, or of course in another French-speaking country. Or maybe you're thinking of a distance course?


Something solid for your CV (or whatever you call your marketing text) is essential to justify your claim to be able to translate clients' texts well. So a well-known qualification might be a good idea both for you personally (knowledge, networking, confidence...) and for your clients' opinion of you.


Thanks for the feedback, Sheila. I do agree that a qualification will probably help me at this point in time as experience is not something I can offer right now. While I have spent time living in France (total of 6 months), I would love to go back and do a MA, but current circumstances won't allow for that unfortunately.

Besides the MA or DipTrans routes, are you aware of any other recognised qualifications currently being offered?


 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 17:29
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Recognised by whom? Aug 31, 2016

SamuelDJones wrote:
Besides the MA or DipTrans routes, are you aware of any other recognised qualifications currently being offered?

The only one I know of is this: http://ci3m.fr/formation-en-traduction-anglais-francais
Do the SFT do anything? I really don't know.

The basic course I did isn't "officially recognised". However, that's never seemed to put my clients off. I was happy with the knowledge and techniques I gained from doing it, and for me that's the main thing. The only thing that's ever held me back in life has been the fact that I never went to university back in the '70s. That means I can't get involved in those hours and hours of providing all sorts of information for EU tenders that never bring in any money because the winning agency then turns to someone cheaper. Quel dommage ! But you'll be able to participate as you have a Bachelor's degree.


 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:29
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
They mean well Aug 31, 2016

ILAN RUBIN wrote:
and then backpedalled 100% on this claim after I told them I would sign up for their MA course if they could provide the evidence of these rates.
Reminds me of slimming / getting ripped ads.


I think polyglot45 is sincere, but blinded by her/his background. As I am the quintessential "second career" translator, I don't have much time for the argument that an MA conveys legitimacy or certainly "professional nous". (I think most industry people would argue, rightly or not, that those with an academic background typically lack professional nous.)

My unhelpfully non-prescriptive argument is "what works, works" and that domain-specific knowledge trumps most other factors.

Still, I generally agree with polyglot45, which is I think that if a potential client has a choice between 25-year old translator A with an MA in translation but no experience in industry and 23-year old translator B with only a BA and no experience in industry, then the potential client may be swayed towards translator A, all other things being equal.

The weakness in the argument is that, most of the time, all other things aren't equal and those other factors can easily offset an MA.

Dan


 
polyglot45
polyglot45
English to French
+ ...
@Dan Aug 31, 2016

I am sincere and so are others. You say I'm blinded by my experience but maybe you might just be blinded by yours.

Having said that, I have learned my lesson. I commented on this thread initially because I was fed up to the back teeth of the one-side picture too often painted round here. I thought it was time to redress the balance. Clearly, as I should have known, I am outnumbered (unsurprisingly) in this particular configuration.

There is another way to just leaving
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I am sincere and so are others. You say I'm blinded by my experience but maybe you might just be blinded by yours.

Having said that, I have learned my lesson. I commented on this thread initially because I was fed up to the back teeth of the one-side picture too often painted round here. I thought it was time to redress the balance. Clearly, as I should have known, I am outnumbered (unsurprisingly) in this particular configuration.

There is another way to just leaving university with a BA and going freelance. The importance of networking must not be overlooked. People with qualifications can get there quicker. Yes, those with hands-on experience of an industry can make very good translators in their field, though why anyone with a good well-paid job would want to swop it for the vagaries of translation beats me. But that is another issue.

For the rest, I am not blinded. Just a realist.
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Ilan Rubin (X)
Ilan Rubin (X)  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 20:29
Russian to English
0.25 euros a word Aug 31, 2016

So which language pairs command this rate, after how many years of post-MA translation, and what is the underlying data?

 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:29
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
A freelancer's lot is not necessarily an unhappy one Sep 1, 2016

polyglot45 wrote:
I am sincere and so are others. You say I'm blinded by my experience but maybe you might just be blinded by yours.

I would have said that the difference is that I am less prescriptive, although looking back over the thread I suppose I am biased towards specialised knowledge. It is one way; there are others. If I, personally, were looking to hire a freelancer to help on a project, an MA would not rank high on my list of search conditions.

Yes, those with hands-on experience of an industry can make very good translators in their field, though why anyone with a good well-paid job would want to swop it for the vagaries of translation beats me.

I think I'm doing pretty well in freelance translation, but I freely admit that I only make a fraction of what I used to make when I worked in stock market. The problem is that there are no free lunches; investment banks do not spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on salaries and bonuses without expecting a great deal in return. For employees, that means intense pressure and a concomitant level of stress, even for the successful ones.

By comparison, the "stress" of running my own translation business is miniscule. I have no boss or shareholders to worry about. I deal only with the people with whom I want to deal. I make enough to support a life for myself and my family in a peaceful, beautiful and safe part of the world. So that's why I'm a freelancer despite having valuable first-hand experience in industry. I imagine many other freelancers have similar motivations.

Regards
Dan


 
polyglot45
polyglot45
English to French
+ ...
@Dan (sigh) Sep 1, 2016

I thought I had explained that I may have come across as "prescriptive" because I wanted to show there was another side to the coin, and one very infrequently aired here for reasons you can well imagine.
There is no point in being wish-washy when others are categorical in defence of their arguments.

Working in finance is indeed often stressful but surely being at the end of the line and having to adapt to clients' requirements as a translator can be stressful in itself? Obviou
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I thought I had explained that I may have come across as "prescriptive" because I wanted to show there was another side to the coin, and one very infrequently aired here for reasons you can well imagine.
There is no point in being wish-washy when others are categorical in defence of their arguments.

Working in finance is indeed often stressful but surely being at the end of the line and having to adapt to clients' requirements as a translator can be stressful in itself? Obviously a translator can refuse a job but there must come a point where he or she will need to eat and concessions will have to be made.

I have clients who rely on me to help them meet their deadlines even when they are systematically running late. But I charge them for the privilege! A good translator will have writing and adaptation skills, will take time out to point out (tactfully!) errors or inconsistencies in the original to the client, will - in short - act as a sort of extra proofreader.
We can offer a package: not just the basic translation but also the bits that go with it, such as proofreading of texts for publication or the details mentioned above. That is what translators at the top end of the price range can and do offer. And, by working with direct clients, the middleman phenomenon is avoided....

To Ilan I would say that I cannot possibly point him towards the rates I mentioned. I do not know him or the quality of his work, which may be excellent but how would I know?

All I can say is that, while I agree with Dan that an MA on a translator's CV may not be the main criterion on which to base a judgement, it is nevertheless - like most degrees used to be - a sign that the person was selected to go on a postgraduate course, obtained a diploma from a reputable school, has peers and teachers to refer to and is generally likely to be more on the ball than someone without that background. Students are not just taught the tricks of the trade, proceed by trial and error and generally get a feel for the job. They are also taught how to do research, how to use Internet intelligently and choose the right answer from a sea of rubbish (how often do you see Kudoz askers picking the wrong answer?) and how to market themselves, etc. It is a leg-up (as I said before) but one that means that most of the graduates I am thinking of will not be found on sites like this.

To return to Ilan, I was replying to the OP and saying that it may well be worth his while to take time out to go through the education mill because, provided he is good enough to get in and qualify at the end, he will be starting higher up the ladder when he embarks on his career. Once you have embarked and your clients are used to your rates, why should they pay more? If you say "yes, but I now have a paper qualification", they may well wonder whether they were not being ripped off before! That boat has sailed.

Last but not least to Dan: I never said translating was an unhappy lot but I feel for those who have to work round the clock at peanut rates to make a living. We have marketable skills, or should have. We need to market them properly and as a package, as I said before. Good clients are prepared to pay good rates for this. There may be some who ask for rates cuts and threaten to go elsewhere. It happens but nine times out of ten, they come crawling back because, in the end, "cheap and cheerful" does not cut it. Proof that you have been through a well-known and reputed graduate school + experience is the sort of reassurance that the client needs.


PS - as to language pairs : think French-English and vice versa, German-English etc. etc.

[Edited at 2016-09-01 11:39 GMT]
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Klaus Baumann
Klaus Baumann
Denmark
Local time: 18:29
German to English
+ ...
Find enough loyal customers before you leave your job Sep 1, 2016

My advice is to get more customers (preferably the ones who have ongoing translation needs) and make sure that they are satisfied with your job and would contact you again. Leave your job only after you are sure that the money you would earn from these customers is enough for you. Check online translation agencies who are always looking for freelance translators, and also check freelance boards and platforms.

 
Ilan Rubin (X)
Ilan Rubin (X)  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 20:29
Russian to English
Not really Sep 1, 2016

polyglot45 wrote:


Working in finance is indeed often stressful but surely being at the end of the line and having to adapt to clients' requirements as a translator can be stressful in itself?


I did investment banking (research, then M&A) for 14 years. The stress level experienced vs that of a translator trying to meet a tight deadline for an annoyed client is many times higher, believe me. If you screw up an M&A presentation and as a result lose the deal to a competitor your bank loses anything upwards of USD2m in fees (and maybe ten times this). And you may have done a couple of all-nighters prior to handing in the preso and by this time you can't even remember your own name... It's not for the faint-hearted.


 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 17:29
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Who does "we" (my highlighting) refer to, polyglot45? Sep 1, 2016

In your post titled "@Dan (sigh)" you say:
polyglot45 wrote:
Working in finance is indeed often stressful but surely being at the end of the line and having to adapt to clients' requirements as a translator can be stressful in itself? Obviously a translator can refuse a job but there must come a point where he or she will need to eat and concessions will have to be made.

I have clients who rely on me to help them meet their deadlines even when they are systematically running late. But I charge them for the privilege! A good translator will have writing and adaptation skills, will take time out to point out (tactfully!) errors or inconsistencies in the original to the client, will - in short - act as a sort of extra proofreader.
We can offer a package: not just the basic translation but also the bits that go with it, such as proofreading of texts for publication or the details mentioned above. That is what translators at the top end of the price range can and do offer. And, by working with direct clients, the middleman phenomenon is avoided....

and:
Last but not least to Dan: I never said translating was an unhappy lot but I feel for those who have to work round the clock at peanut rates to make a living. We have marketable skills, or should have. We need to market them properly and as a package, as I said before. Good clients are prepared to pay good rates for this. There may be some who ask for rates cuts and threaten to go elsewhere. It happens but nine times out of ten, they come crawling back because, in the end, "cheap and cheerful" does not cut it. Proof that you have been through a well-known and reputed graduate school + experience is the sort of reassurance that the client needs.

Now, I'm sure Dan can speak for himself but it seems to me that "we", particularly in the first extract, is being used to refer exclusively to those with post-graduate diplomas in translation; comparing those "top" translators to those - such as Dan and myself - who don't have such a qualification. If that is indeed the case, I think it's most unfair and untrue. Those "we" attributes can apply to any translator working in the higher end of the market - whatever route they took to get there. (You probably don't regard my market as higher end, with my published rates of EUR 0.12 per word and EUR 30 per hour, but I can assure you I fit more into your "we" mould than into the mould of someone being "at the end of the line" and at the mercy of middlemen.)

Please don't give newcomers to the profession the impression that all they can hope for if they don't do an MA in translation is to work flat out for translation brokers, barely scratching a living and getting totally stressed out. Going that route to disaster is not an inevitability for anyone. It's something that we have to help all new translators to avoid. I seem to remember a thread not so long ago where a holder of a doctorate in translation was headed that way.


 
polyglot45
polyglot45
English to French
+ ...
Sorry, Sheila, but don't put words in my mouth that weren't there Sep 1, 2016

To be quite clear, "we" means members of the translation profession.

To quote myself : "We can offer a package: ..... That is what translators at the top end of the price range can and do offer."

Surely it is clear that "we" was the generaliation and the bit at the end the specific? If not, then I apologise but I don't think I was obscure.

In the second part, the situation is just the same:

To quote myself again : "We have marketable skills, or
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To be quite clear, "we" means members of the translation profession.

To quote myself : "We can offer a package: ..... That is what translators at the top end of the price range can and do offer."

Surely it is clear that "we" was the generaliation and the bit at the end the specific? If not, then I apologise but I don't think I was obscure.

In the second part, the situation is just the same:

To quote myself again : "We have marketable skills, or should have. We need to market them properly and as a package, as I said before. Good clients are prepared to pay good rates for this."

This is yet another generalisation and anyone who thinks otherwise may just be trying to decredibilise me !!!!

I know I am not saying what everybody wants to hear. I know I am presenting a picture different to the internet translation platform norm but I am referring to a world out there that exists. I thought it was about time that somebody mentioned that there is another way (in addition to the Dan-type way, which is not accessible to OP, as far as I can judge).

Sorry if daring to depart from Proz received wisdom means that I am now off to social Siberia. And all I wanted was to even the balance.

Never again!

@ Dan - I'm not going to fight you over the difficulties and stresses of finance against those of translation : all this is purely subejctive and not the point of the exercise. Anyway, finance is not my field.

[Edited at 2016-09-01 17:49 GMT]
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Maria S. Loose, LL.M.
Maria S. Loose, LL.M.  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 18:29
German to English
+ ...
MA in translation versus degree in technical subject Sep 1, 2016

I have done both so maybe I can contribute something useful. After finishing high school I did a BA in English and American literature and then an MA in translation studies at a very well reputed German university (Heidelberg). I then started to work as an in-house translator and unfortunately realized that my MA in translation studies was not worth very much. I was paid less than all the other university graduates (lawyers and economists) had a very hard time understanding what I was translatin... See more
I have done both so maybe I can contribute something useful. After finishing high school I did a BA in English and American literature and then an MA in translation studies at a very well reputed German university (Heidelberg). I then started to work as an in-house translator and unfortunately realized that my MA in translation studies was not worth very much. I was paid less than all the other university graduates (lawyers and economists) had a very hard time understanding what I was translating (very specialized EU regulations, audit reports etc.) My colleagues with degrees other than mine helped me a lot but I realized that they were in a better position to translate these texts than me (most of them were bilingual English/German). This made me feel useless and inferior. I then was lucky enough to succeed an EU selection procedure for in-house translators and was hired by an EU institution. In retrospect, I think that this was the only real advantage of my MA in translation studies. The competition was limited to people whose command of the target language was native level and that eliminated thousands and thousands of competitors. So yes, financially speaking my degree in translation was a plus. But I continued to feel that I lacked specialized knowledge and that my translations were not very good because of that. Neither were those of my colleagues in my translation unit who all had degrees in literature, linguistics and translation studies. Then, much later in life, when my kids were out of their diapers I went back to university and did a law degree with lots of commercial and corporate law in it. In retrospect, I very honestly think that I should have done this when I was young and if a young person asks me now how to become a good translator I would tell him/her that, provided you are at least C1 in a second language, study a technical subject and buy some books or do a small course on translation theory.

[Edited at 2016-09-01 17:23 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-09-01 17:36 GMT]
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Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:29
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Cannot be compared Sep 1, 2016

ILAN RUBIN wrote:
polyglot45 wrote:
Working in finance is indeed often stressful but surely being at the end of the line and having to adapt to clients' requirements as a translator can be stressful in itself?

I did investment banking (research, then M&A) for 14 years. The stress level experienced vs that of a translator trying to meet a tight deadline for an annoyed client is many times higher, believe me.

Ilan is right: the stakes are much higher and so is the stress. If you haven't been in the crucible, you won't understand.

Compared to working as an analyst, freelancing is a walk in the park. It's not that I don't have to work hard - of course I do - but life is much more straightforward and hence less stressful.

Dan


 
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