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Proz Certified Pro, is it a joke?
Thread poster: Myong-Sang Lim

Myong-Sang Lim  Identity Verified
South Korea
Local time: 15:12
Member (2015)
English to Korean
TOPIC STARTER
That's not the point. Dec 13, 2015

jyuan_us wrote:

If not, what is the point for you to submit a support ticket?

You may instead send the person an email reminding him or her that there are errors on his/her sample translation.


I just want to stop someone posing as a native speaker to deteriorate translator community.

What's the point in telling him/her what is wrong in the sample if he/she can't properly comprehend the language? Also, the sample translation is a FUBAR.

[Edited at 2015-12-13 17:02 GMT]


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 07:12
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Sheila Dec 13, 2015

Sheila Wilson wrote:
I once submitted a support ticket concerning someone who was clearly totally unsuitable. Their certification was withdrawn.


Were the translators who vouched for him/her also dropped from the programme? Because, if I'm not mistaken, you can't become a red pee member unless other translators vouch for you.


 

Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
You had the red P Dec 13, 2015

Tom in London wrote:
I was invited to apply for it but didn't bother (too busy translating!).


I remember very well you posting in the P forum with your red P, why did you drop it?

@ Samuel,

Yes and not only, to be accepted one has to submit a sample (a kind of anonymous test), checked by selected colleagues, who approve or not.



[Edited at 2015-12-13 19:37 GMT]


 

jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:12
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Still, Dec 14, 2015

DexterLim wrote:

I just want to stop someone posing as a native speaker to deteriorate translator community.

.

[Edited at 2015-12-13 17:02 GMT]


How can you prove that he is posing as a native speaker (of Korean in this case)?

Also, while it is understood that some non-native English speakers claim to be native English speakers, it is beyond my understanding anybody should even want to pretend to be a native Korean speaker or Chinese speaker. It is meaningless for any one to do so.

I saw the Chinese translation of several decent LSPs carries a lot of errors, and on one of them, the first sentence has been translated into something just opposite to what was meant in English. And these companies are the corporate members of Proz. Should I send a support ticket to Proz about this?


 

Myong-Sang Lim  Identity Verified
South Korea
Local time: 15:12
Member (2015)
English to Korean
TOPIC STARTER
It is too obvious. Dec 14, 2015

jyuan_us wrote:

How can you prove that he is posing as a native speaker (of Korean in this case)?



Even a Korean 9th grader would write better than the person. Show the sample translation to any native Korean and they would agree it's not written by a native Korean.



[Edited at 2015-12-14 08:34 GMT]


 

José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 04:12
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
I second that 100% Dec 14, 2015

Max Deryagin wrote:

As someone who often reviews PCP applicants' test translations, I can tell you than quite many people try to game the system. I see reverse translations presented as regular, I see source and target texts that were just copied and pasted from localized websites (or from other translators), and some of the test translations might have been just outsourced to another translator or even company. The system is flawed, and some of the conmen manage to get through.


I see all of that, plus some applications so crammed with figures and proper nouns that the actual translation work presented is 'negligible'.

A few smart alecks used some trite, often-translated text (e.g. software EULAs) as source, and tried mixing pieces of translations available online, so that Google wouldn't find a 100% match from start to end. The problem is that they mixed variants in the process, having PT+BR Portuguese or US+GB English together in the same text, exposing that they were Frankensteins.

Three out of five applications I reject come from truly native speakers of the target language, however definitely not translators. No evidence on their knowledge of the source language beyond the basics, though. Some word choices reveal the reckless or clueless use of bilingual dictionaries.


This led me to a thought on demanding native speakers of the target language as the first and foremost - when not the only - translator selection criterion.

Dialogue in the analogy goes like this:
"Are you going to operate on this patient?"
"Most definitely!"
"But... are you a surgeon?"
"Of course! I was BORN in a hospital!"


 

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:12
Member (2008)
Italian to English
I misbehaved Dec 14, 2015

Angie Garbarino wrote:

I remember very well you posting in the P forum with your red P, why did you drop it?



It's very kind of you to remember, Angie. I'm an ex-P !!!

That was a long time ago. I think I probably said something scathing about the P system along the lines that people were getting a P who really shouldn't. I still think that.

That was early in my Proz membership, when I used to make the mistake of expressing my opinions in my usual forthright way (which some people find abrasive).

I can hardly remember now what happened but the P was taken away from me. I seem to remember an acrimonious exchange of correspondence with the admins of Proz (for which, apologies to the admins of Proz - if that's what it was). Or maybe in a fit of pique I renounced my P.

Later on I asked about it again and was invited to re-apply for a P but unlike the first time, I was told I would be required to jump through various hoops. I don't like jumping through hoops, so I've just given up on the idea. I only became interested in having a P again when I heard somewhere that there are translator groups, but you need a P to be in one.

If at some point someone says to me "Congratulations, we're giving you a red P" I suppose I'll say "thank you" and accept it. But otherwise I'll just keep on doing what I'm doing.

The private clients and agencies who work with me know I'm a good translator not because of a row of medals pinned across my chest but because they've seen my work.

Now back to that incomprehensible, badly written academic paper by someone who doesn't even know himself what he's trying to say....


 

Lucia Leszinsky
SITE STAFF
Just a few remarks before the discussion continues Dec 14, 2015

Hello all,

I hope you are all having a good week start.

I'm just posting here to remind everyone that in line with rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/12#12, specifics of the screening process for the Certified PRO Network should not be discussed in the forums. However, questions on the screening process or other aspects of the network in connection with one's app
... See more
Hello all,

I hope you are all having a good week start.

I'm just posting here to remind everyone that in line with rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/12#12, specifics of the screening process for the Certified PRO Network should not be discussed in the forums. However, questions on the screening process or other aspects of the network in connection with one's application may be submitted via support request at any time, http://www.proz.com/support

This being said, and before a general discussion on the Certified PRO Network can continue, please allow me to address --and hopefully clarify-- some of the points mentioned in this thread:

  • Sample translations added to the Portfolio section of profiles are not taken into account for the review of Certified PRO Network applications. Only sample translations entered into the application page are reviewed.

  • The review of sample translations entered into applications is carried out anonymously by other members of the Certified PRO Network. In other words, a sample translation is accepted or rejected based on professionals' reviews.

  • If a sample translation submitted as part of an application has been copied from the Web, or if there is evidence that a sample translation has been outsourced, Certified PRO reviewers have tools to report this to staff reviewers. If confirmed, the applicant may be asked for a new sample or else have their application rejected.

  • Acceptance into the Certified PRO Network depends on more than a sample translation. To earn the ProZ.com "Certified PRO" seal, a translator must probe to have translation ability, but also business reliability and online citizenship.

  • The Certified PRO Network has been designed as an exclusive benefit for site members, as another tool for differentiation.

All these points are also covered in detail at http://www.proz.com/cpn , but please feel free to to submit a support request if you have further doubts, http://www.proz.com/support

Thanks!

Lucia
Collapse


 

Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:12
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Most samples I review in my pair do not pass muster Dec 14, 2015

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

I see all of that, plus some applications so crammed with figures and proper nouns that the actual translation work presented is 'negligible'.

A few smart alecks used some trite, often-translated text (e.g. software EULAs) as source, and tried mixing pieces of translations available online, so that Google wouldn't find a 100% match from start to end. The problem is that they mixed variants in the process, having PT+BR Portuguese or US+GB English together in the same text, exposing that they were Frankensteins.

Three out of five applications I reject come from truly native speakers of the target language, however definitely not translators. No evidence on their knowledge of the source language beyond the basics, though. Some word choices reveal the reckless or clueless use of bilingual dictionaries.


This led me to a thought on demanding native speakers of the target language as the first and foremost - when not the only - translator selection criterion.

Dialogue in the analogy goes like this:
"Are you going to operate on this patient?"
"Most definitely!"
"But... are you a surgeon?"
"Of course! I was BORN in a hospital!"


José’s experience, as reported here, generally reflects my own. To wit, I find myself rejecting something on the order of 4 our of 5 of the translations I review (let me note that there are quite a few that I refuse to review because of either pressing obligations or simply when it strikes me I am receiving the requests too frequently within a short time frame).

As in the cases reported by others in this thread, it is sometimes all too evident that the candidates are either non-native in the target language or that they are natives with a hopelessly tin ear.


 

José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 04:12
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
Very honestly... Dec 14, 2015

Robert Forstag wrote:

As in the cases reported by others in this thread, it is sometimes all too evident that the candidates are either non-native in the target language or that they are natives with a hopelessly tin ear.


I really don't care about the "native" per se as a feature. Technically, I am a Brazilian, a native speaker of Portuguese, and yet some Americans have asked me - after some correspondence or verbal exchange in English - whether I would be capable of speaking/writing in Portuguese to an acceptable level. Once, on an operator-assisted phone call from New Jersey to Brazil, the operator dared to offer me interpreter (though maybe she would earn a commission on that, I wouldn't know).

The fact is that now and then I'm forced to tell the applicant, who is supposedly no more, and no less Brazilian than I am, "You merely wrote it in English using Portuguese vocabulary and grammar. This is not translating!"


 
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