Reference contacts for agencies - how many to annoy your current clients? Thread poster: Astrid_H
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Astrid_H 
Germany
Local time: 14:43
German to English
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Hi everyone,
after finishing some long-term projects and my studies, I'm finally getting around to starting my self-marketing with agencies, building a website, improving (hopefully) my proz.com profile and so on.
Many agencies require references, which is fair enough, but they want contact details so they can call or mail these former clients.
I have only had a limited number of clients I've worked for in the past (mainly dealt with companies directly, not agenci... See more Hi everyone,
after finishing some long-term projects and my studies, I'm finally getting around to starting my self-marketing with agencies, building a website, improving (hopefully) my proz.com profile and so on.
Many agencies require references, which is fair enough, but they want contact details so they can call or mail these former clients.
I have only had a limited number of clients I've worked for in the past (mainly dealt with companies directly, not agencies), and from what I've read around here, many apply to 40, 50 or 100 agencies at the same time for translation jobs before getting even one job.
What is your experience? Do they actually contact the references every time before adding you to their database, or only half the time, or less?
I got a few clients' permission to use them as a reference, but would imagine that they may be annoyed if they get several emails per week asking about me. I really don't want to risk losing them because of this.
Is it maybe more useful to carry on targeting clients directly rather than agencies?
What would you suggest? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:43
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Two suggestions | Oct 9, 2014 |
Astrid_H wrote:
.....
What would you suggest?
A few suggestions:
1. Don't fire off hundreds of e-mails to all the agencies you can think of. From your point of view, this is a very tiring and time-consuming task, and from their point of view it's just a nuisance and your e-mail will go straight in the trash. Some agencies have actually said that in these forums.
2. If they ask for references, in my opinion the best thing to do is to politely tell them that just as you would not reveal their name to any of their competitors, you're not prepared to tell them who your other clients are. Remind them that there's a relationship of trust and confidentiality between you and your clients and that you would not be willing to breach it.
3. We often get people here who ask us to look at their website and make comments on it. In most cases, these websites look really amateurish, particularly when they use stock photographs of supposedly dynamic business people doing stuff in offices. Creating a really good website, and keeping it up to date with constantly renewed material, is a major operation for which most translators just wouldn't have time.
4. One of the best ways of marketing your talents is to work really hard on your profile on this website, and occasionally add to it or polish it. I think the "portfolio" section is particularly important because it shows what you can do when translating different styles of text and different types of document. Your profile is the first thing that prospective clients will see and will use as a basis for contacting you. Just remember that this website is the most important website in the world when it comes to looking for a translator, and that many agencies use Proz as their first port of call. So your best marketing tool is Proz itself!
5. Don't claim to be able to translate bi-directionally in a language pair, into/out of your native language. Most people can't. Not even people who have decades of experience using a language that isn't their mother tongue.
6. Specialise. Don't claim to be able to translate everything and anything; nobody can. Focus very narrowly on one or two specialised fields. When prospective clients come looking for a translator who has full command of the terminology used in a particular field, this will make you stand out. Don't be "a Jack of all trades and a master of none" !
7. Last but not least: don't try to get work by being cheaper than everyone else. Get work by being *better* than everyone else !
[Edited at 2014-10-09 09:20 GMT]
| | | | Astrid_H
Germany
Local time: 14:43
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | "Database" applications | Oct 9, 2014 |
Hi Tom, thanks for replying so quickly!
I think I need to clarify: of course I've sent some emails, but I was referring to those translation agencies who you apply to by registering with them via a database, which seems to be what a large part of agencies do (I may be wrong though and just come across the wrong ones).
I've seen a number of "if you don't supply references, we will not process your application at all", which means I don't really have a choice but to give ... See more Hi Tom, thanks for replying so quickly!
I think I need to clarify: of course I've sent some emails, but I was referring to those translation agencies who you apply to by registering with them via a database, which seems to be what a large part of agencies do (I may be wrong though and just come across the wrong ones).
I've seen a number of "if you don't supply references, we will not process your application at all", which means I don't really have a choice but to give them references, if I want to work for them.
So yes, of course I'm not going to blindly fire off emails. I've so far only applied if I saw that either they are currently looking to expand, or when they have had a "apply at any time"-database. At this point I still have more than enough agencies to contact yet, so I can just as well choose the most promising.
On the subject of websites: yes, I know exactly what you mean, I'm not a fan of stock photos either, I'm more a "content counts" type of person when doing my own stuff and simply want to include static professional information - updating references and working fields every once in a while (just like in a CV really), and a blog (which I suppose you mean with constantly updated) only if I have time, even though apparently blogs, beside good SEO are one of the best instruments for your website to be noticed and ranked highly by certain search engines. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:43
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Astrid_H wrote:
Hi Tom, thanks for replying so quickly!
I think I need to clarify: of course I've sent some emails, but I was referring to those translation agencies who you apply to by registering with them
Apologies. I often reply to those invitations too - although nothing has ever come of it.
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| Thank you for the tips! | Oct 9, 2014 |
I am trying to do the same and have been a member here for 2 weeks.
I started translating on dubious websites for silly rates, but have gained some experience, I am just finishing a book translation and would like to market myself a bit more professionally. I have been/am a languages teacher, but I am preparing for a translation specific qualification (DipTrans) applied to the ITI for membership and I am building a profile on Proz.com.
In my first week here 3 clients r... See more I am trying to do the same and have been a member here for 2 weeks.
I started translating on dubious websites for silly rates, but have gained some experience, I am just finishing a book translation and would like to market myself a bit more professionally. I have been/am a languages teacher, but I am preparing for a translation specific qualification (DipTrans) applied to the ITI for membership and I am building a profile on Proz.com.
In my first week here 3 clients responded to my applications via the job board resulting in one small job to a good (for me) rate. This week I had no replies. Also I send out applications to some of the agencies listed here, agencies that look for translators in my language pair, I haven't heard back though. It might be early days and the competition is though, but after this promising start last week I feel a bit deflated.
So far, I have not invested in a CAT tool, I have used MemSource (free) a few times, just to have a go. Trados seems to be mentioned all the time, is it worth investing in that rather expensive piece of software? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:43
Member (2008)
Italian to English
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There ain't no need to bug your existing clients. Get a truckload of informal testimonials and other endorsements and a couple of more formal letters of referral, and if they can't work with that, they suffer from either bureaucracy surplus or IQ deficiency (which are far less apart than it may seem), so you don't really want to waste your time with them.
Happy translating!
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 13:43
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Value your current clients, and yourself, over "maybe one day" contacts | Oct 9, 2014 |
Astrid_H wrote:
Many agencies require references, which is fair enough
I don't agree. It's fair to ask a job applicant for references, but we aren't employees. We're potential service suppliers to these agencies; business partners. And our referees, were we to divulge them, are their competitors, and in many cases we still have a healthy working relationship with them. This whole idea of references is simply crazy! It's just another way for agencies to kid us they're our superiors. They aren't kidding me; don't let them kid you!
I got a few clients' permission to use them as a reference
Perfect! I can see you already have a couple of WWA entries on the site. Why not ask some more clients if they'd be happy to leave a few words? It's the only time they need to be bothered by the request. Give agencies the link to your profile and it's done and dusted.
Is it maybe more useful to carry on targeting clients directly rather than agencies?
By all means target direct clients, but there are lots of agencies out there who don't ask for references. There are also many who ask just because that's what other agencies are doing. I've challenged a couple that I've really wanted to work with, and in each case they've said "Good point!" and not insisted. If they do insist then I find that I don't really want to work with them after all. If they're so rule bound there are bound to be problems further down the line.
Tom has given some really good advice for newcomers to the profession. His last suggestion:
Tom in London wrote:
Last but not least: don't try to get work by being cheaper than everyone else. Get work by being *better* than everyone else ! is certainly not the least in my book. It could be the most important piece of advice you can get. And it implies his previous two points. Don't offer every language pair and every subject you studied in college, or that you've been desperate enough to accept just to get work. Publicly offer only what you do best. It doesn't mean you absolutely can't go outside that envelope, but you should aim to be a specialist in what you do best.
There's a gap that I see widening every day between those who work all hours churning out vast volumes of translated words for a few cents each, and specialists who are called on to produce a professional translation of important documents, for a suitable fee. Where do you think the future for a translator lies as free automatic translation improves in the future?
Gabriele Demuth wrote:
Trados seems to be mentioned all the time, is it worth investing in that rather expensive piece of software?
I think it's important to know exactly what a CAT tool is and what it can and can't do, so you may want to try another free one, or trial one, so that you can compare them. But it shouldn't be essential in your areas, Gabriele. I work in similar areas and I use Wordfast for my own purposes only (QC, terminology, concordance checks, formatting...). I don't deliver unclean files or accept client TMs, and I certainly wouldn't offer Trados-style discounts.
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Richard Foulkes (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:43
German to English
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I think Tom covers everything. You can always offer test / sample translations rather than annoy your existing clients. If you provide endorsements / letters with clients' names on, I would have thought there's a chance your client might be contacted, which poses the same problems as a reference. If they are anonymous, surely people might think you've written them yourself?!
@ Gabriele. I disagree with Tom on Trados / SDL Studio. However, it depends on the nature of your clients and... See more I think Tom covers everything. You can always offer test / sample translations rather than annoy your existing clients. If you provide endorsements / letters with clients' names on, I would have thought there's a chance your client might be contacted, which poses the same problems as a reference. If they are anonymous, surely people might think you've written them yourself?!
@ Gabriele. I disagree with Tom on Trados / SDL Studio. However, it depends on the nature of your clients and work. The witty comment on the other thread isn't really factually correct since you should only be offering discounts for work you're not doing (e.g. charging 100% matches at 30% of full rate). Assuming 30% of full rate is a common proofreading rate then this doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Problems can arise if the TM is of poor quality (particularly with fuzzy matches). Then you need to raise this with your client and consider whether you'd rather not have the client/work at all.
I believe SDL are the market leader, so if you're working with agencies you're limiting your number of potential clients by not having it. It's up to you whether that bothers you.
When you have direct clients, I find client-specific TMs are a excellent for standardising terminology. And don't forget who gets the benefit of any matches!
It is expensive and I cringe when I think about how much I paid for it a few years ago compared with the recent price when it was on offer or during the group buys on here. However, I bought it because a client had a project that required me to upgrade and the project paid for Studio in a week. Since then, it's paid for itself countless times over.
[Edited at 2014-10-10 09:12 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Arianne Farah
Canada
Local time: 08:43
Member (2008)
English to French
| Use the WWA feature | Oct 10, 2014 |
Ask your clients, agency & private, to give you a WWA comment on your profile, then in the forms copy & paste the link to your WWA - if the form requires a certain format in some of the fields just put (123) 456-7890 and [email protected]
That way, the references are legit & your clients aren't being bothered - those who refuse to give you a WWA are the same who would not... See more Ask your clients, agency & private, to give you a WWA comment on your profile, then in the forms copy & paste the link to your WWA - if the form requires a certain format in some of the fields just put (123) 456-7890 and [email protected]
That way, the references are legit & your clients aren't being bothered - those who refuse to give you a WWA are the same who would not give you a reference if you included them in an application in any case, so no loss there.
Never use private clients as direct references when working with agencies - I've heard many a horror story about agencies trying to poach naive translators' clients... you never hear from them again and suddenly all your clients are receiving translation offers... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Iris Schmerda
France
Local time: 14:43
Member (2016)
French to German
+ ...
| You might lose clients | Oct 10, 2014 |
Don't do it!
I once had a very good client, whom I only asked (!) if I might give their contact as a reference for a potential client.
I never got an answer to this question and never any translation again by this agency, whereas before they had given me loads of work. Sometimes even every day!
I had sacrificed an excellent client for an agency that might PERHAPS have given me some work one day. A bit later this potential client told me they only work with transl... See more Don't do it!
I once had a very good client, whom I only asked (!) if I might give their contact as a reference for a potential client.
I never got an answer to this question and never any translation again by this agency, whereas before they had given me loads of work. Sometimes even every day!
I had sacrificed an excellent client for an agency that might PERHAPS have given me some work one day. A bit later this potential client told me they only work with translators that use Trados ... (I don't). So I finally never worked with this agency and had lost the excellent client for nothing at all.
Perhaps they were worried about confidentiality and thought I had already given their contact details ... which was absolutely not the case and not my intention without their permission.
I will never do it again, not even ask. One never knows their reaction before.
It is much better to cherish the clients you have – and makes less work than finding new ones. And of course building up a good profile at Proz, other sites, do some marketing etc. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Astrid_H
Germany
Local time: 14:43
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Sorry, all my individual posts are gone | Oct 21, 2014 |
Hello everyone,
thank you so much for your replies! I had already replied individually (or so I thought...) the other week, but those posts seem to have vanished somehow.
You are all right of course, I should have thought of the possibility if client-stealing myself and will do as you suggested.
I've been too busy in the last two weeks to adjust my profile yet to be more specialised as Sheila and Tom suggested, but will get to it these next few days - unless you m... See more Hello everyone,
thank you so much for your replies! I had already replied individually (or so I thought...) the other week, but those posts seem to have vanished somehow.
You are all right of course, I should have thought of the possibility if client-stealing myself and will do as you suggested.
I've been too busy in the last two weeks to adjust my profile yet to be more specialised as Sheila and Tom suggested, but will get to it these next few days - unless you meant this advice generally and not specifically about my profile?
Thank you all for your help, sometimes you just need someone to point out the obvious! ▲ Collapse
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Astrid_H
Germany
Local time: 14:43
German to English
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TOPIC STARTER | ---sorry, double posting--- | Oct 21, 2014 |
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[Edited at 2014-10-21 10:22 GMT]
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