| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | How is the communication in between you and the client done? Thread poster: Matthew Trulandzev
|
|---|
| Reading too much into it? | Sep 27, 2013 |
Tom in London wrote: Nicole Schnell wrote:
I find attaching invoices to a delivered translation extremely tacky... Me too. It says: "I'm desperate for money and I need payment now or I'll get thrown out of my house" "My translation is perfect. Don't even think about querying anything in it. Send the money immediately". [Edited at 2013-09-27 09:32 GMT]
Tom and Nicole,
I think you are reading too much into an invoice and when it is sent.
Sometimes you do just one single job for a client and getting everything out at once and being able to cross a task off your to-do list just reduces your admin and avoids potential problems later.
I can't imagine a client inferring from that that you are late paying your rent or are desperate for money, or even that you are tacky or too big for your boots. That's a bit far-fetched. Sorry.
I'm not embarrassed in the slightest about invoicing for my work and I don't think it makes any difference when I do so.
Besides, sending the invoice with the work eradicates the possibility of clients later claiming that they never received your invoice (which is important with some clients) since they clearly received the work if they haven't chased it up so they must have received the invoice too.
| | | | | Isn't it fair? | Sep 27, 2013 |
Tom in London wrote: Nicole Schnell wrote:
I find attaching invoices to a delivered translation extremely tacky... Me too. It says: "I'm desperate for money and I need payment now or I'll get thrown out of my house" "My translation is perfect. Don't even think about querying anything in it. Send the money immediately".
At the very outset, the client said they needed it done & delivered by day X, by Y o'clock on the Z time zone. They wouldn't want to be bothered with any problems of any nature I had in the meantime.
Likewise, if we agreed on the payment of a certain amount, by a certain date, via a certain method, if I timely fulfilled their request, in all fairness I shouldn't be bothered by any problems of any nature they have in the meantime.
It is grovelling translators, those who immediate yield to any unreasonable demand from any client, that spoil the translation marketplace, by literally spoiling these clients upon empowering them to make such demands.
An invoice does not mean "pay me immediately!", unless that's what was initially agreed. An invoice merely confirms what was delivered, that it matches what was requested, the final total owed, and when and how it was agreed to be paid.
Most of my clients prefer an invoice with/immediately after delivery, to have the reassurance that they didn't inadvertently incur in extra charges for anything (extra?) they might have requested.
[Edited at 2013-09-27 11:56 GMT]
| | | | | along with translation | Sep 27, 2013 |
I send my invoice thru separate mail immediately after sending the translation. This is necessary, and I cannot send at the end of the month at one go because, some have 15, 30,45, 60 days payment terms. For the interpretation companies, there is no need to send invoice as they total it up themselves and pay once a month.
| | | | Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 16:40
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Vote for immediate (or monthly) invoicing | Sep 27, 2013 |
I can't see how it's a problem for anyone if the invoice is sent with the translation. You've always agreed on payment terms beforehand, and as mine are 30 days then I'm hardly demanding immediate payment.
I see one massive advantage to sending it with the translated file, particularly for new or 'slippery' clients (i.e. the ones who like to try to slip out of paying on time). My email says:
(1) here's the translation with its invoice
(2) please confirm receipt and reada... See more I can't see how it's a problem for anyone if the invoice is sent with the translation. You've always agreed on payment terms beforehand, and as mine are 30 days then I'm hardly demanding immediate payment.
I see one massive advantage to sending it with the translated file, particularly for new or 'slippery' clients (i.e. the ones who like to try to slip out of paying on time). My email says:
(1) here's the translation with its invoice
(2) please confirm receipt and readability of the translation
(3) I'm open to dealing with any reasonable queries about term choice etc (no extra charge) until the due payment date
N° 2 means I can legitimately remind, remind, remind if I don't get that confirmation: it's part of my quality procedures. And of course, if/when they confirm receipt of the translation, they can't really turn round later and say they never received the invoice. If I send the invoice separately, I'm just pestering if I demand confirmation. So I get to the payment due date and only then do they say "invoice? what invoice?". Regular clients tend to get a monthly invoice, on the last working day of the month. I don't ask for confirmation - by definition, they pay on (or near) time! ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 08:40
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | Why I send my invoice as a separate email | Sep 27, 2013 |
The client should have a chance to look at my translation first and to confirm that he received everything in good order. Then I send the invoice. On the same day and with an email that says "Invoice" in the subject line instead of "Finished translation". This way both of our mailboxes stay organized. And the client can forward my translation directly to the editor without having to check if the zipped file contains anything that is none of the editors business.
The other way aroun... See more The client should have a chance to look at my translation first and to confirm that he received everything in good order. Then I send the invoice. On the same day and with an email that says "Invoice" in the subject line instead of "Finished translation". This way both of our mailboxes stay organized. And the client can forward my translation directly to the editor without having to check if the zipped file contains anything that is none of the editors business.
The other way around: Unfortunately I have received translations from freelancers containing a glaring typo or a paragraph missing. In such cases I wish the translator would have rather spent another five minutes to check on their work instead of getting busy with invoice writing. ▲ Collapse
| | | | nrichy (X)
France
Local time: 17:40
French to Dutch
+ ...
| Separate e-mail | Sep 27, 2013 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
The other way around: Unfortunately I have received translations from freelancers containing a glaring typo or a paragraph missing. In such cases I wish the translator would have rather spent another five minutes to check on their work instead of getting busy with invoice writing.
I received proofreading requests with the translator's invoice attached, or in the zip-file. it was rather enlightening for me . If you send your invoices immediately (this is rarely the case for me, as I would have dozens of invoices per month instead of 4-6), always send them in a separate e-mail, which allows your correspondent to forward them to the invoicing department with no further manipulations or confusion.
| | | | matt robinson
Spain
Local time: 17:40
Member (2010)
Spanish to English
| It depends... | Sep 27, 2013 |
I have regular customers (I prefer this term to 'clients') who require me to invoice immediately, and they also pay me immediately! I like this business practice, as everyone is happy, business is closed swiftly and everyone is paid.
That said I have customers who pay (up!) within a very wide range of time periods. I don't usually mind this either, and bill them at the end of every month, making note of the expected payment time.
As one of my daughters' teachers taught ... See more I have regular customers (I prefer this term to 'clients') who require me to invoice immediately, and they also pay me immediately! I like this business practice, as everyone is happy, business is closed swiftly and everyone is paid.
That said I have customers who pay (up!) within a very wide range of time periods. I don't usually mind this either, and bill them at the end of every month, making note of the expected payment time.
As one of my daughters' teachers taught them (translated):
'For questions of taste colours were invented'. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Interesting points | Sep 27, 2013 |
Hmmm, this is why I like these forums, because you learn a lot from other, more experienced colleagues. I found point 2) from Sheila’s list interesting, because I usually never ask for confirmation of receipt. The reason is that 90 % of my clients confirms the reception of the translation without me asking for it. However, for the resting 10 % I usually have to make a short phone call to ask if they received the translation correctly. This is why I will adopt Sheila’s strategy and in the fut... See more Hmmm, this is why I like these forums, because you learn a lot from other, more experienced colleagues. I found point 2) from Sheila’s list interesting, because I usually never ask for confirmation of receipt. The reason is that 90 % of my clients confirms the reception of the translation without me asking for it. However, for the resting 10 % I usually have to make a short phone call to ask if they received the translation correctly. This is why I will adopt Sheila’s strategy and in the future I will include point 2) in my delivery e-mail.
Nicole, there is a point in sending the invoice separately, I see it now. However, even if I always try to be of help to my clients, I think they can work a little, too, and they may separate the translations from the invoice themselves in order to send it to their accounting department. But it really made me smile when you were talking about the extra 5 minutes that should be rather spent on checking the translation than on making up the invoice – I was laughing because sometimes, in order to be able to send the invoice in the same e-mail, I really have to extend my working time beyond the desired line. But I still find it useful to send the invoice in the same e-mail, because my terms of payment are within 30 days after receiving the invoice and because this way the client really can’t claim that he did not receive it. Another important point is what Marie-Helene pointed out: “being able to cross a task off your to-do list” is indeed helpful for me as well. ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Phil Hand
China
Local time: 23:40
Chinese to English
| Don't read too much into an invoice | Sep 28, 2013 |
I feel the same way as Nicole about invoices, but clearly there are a lot of different ways to handle the issue, and it's not something that's worth investing much time and thought on. One of the agencies I work for sends an automatic reply to completed files which contains the line "please send your invoice to invoices@agency if you have not done so already".
They apparently expect invoices with translations.
| | | | | Yes and they should | Sep 29, 2013 |
Agnes Lenkey wrote:
Hmmm, this is why I like these forums, because you learn a lot from other, more experienced colleagues.
However, even if I always try to be of help to my clients, I think they can work a little, too, and they may separate the translations from the invoice themselves in order to send it to their accounting department.
This is probably the best forum and I feel like I owe everyone here.
Then, you are also right about that, that we have done our job so they should do theirs, too. I'm pretty sure that nobody wants their invoice seen by anyone else other than the person that has to pay for it.
Thanks everyone.
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 11:40
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Your invoice might be forwarded to the client or the editor by accident | Sep 29, 2013 |
Tom in London wrote: Nicole Schnell wrote:
I find attaching invoices to a delivered translation extremely tacky... Me too. It says: "I'm desperate for money and I need payment now or I'll get thrown out of my house" "My translation is perfect. Don't even think about querying anything in it. Send the money immediately". [Edited at 2013-09-27 09:32 GMT]
Nicole and Tom are both correct. In addition to Tom's comment, your invoice might be forwarded to the client or the editor by accident.
By the way, based on my experience, more experienced PMs are much more likely to make that kind of mistake than those less experienced. It might be because the former are less careful or simply burnt out.
[Edited at 2013-09-29 05:47 GMT]
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 08:40
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | Thank you, jyuan_us!! | Sep 29, 2013 |
jyuan_us wrote: Tom in London wrote: Nicole Schnell wrote:
I find attaching invoices to a delivered translation extremely tacky... Me too. It says: "I'm desperate for money and I need payment now or I'll get thrown out of my house" "My translation is perfect. Don't even think about querying anything in it. Send the money immediately". Nicole and Tom are both correct. In addition to Tom's comment, your invoice might be forwarded to the client or the editor by accident. By the way, based on my experience, more experienced PMs are much more likely to make that kind of mistake than those less experienced. It might be because the former are less careful or simply burnt out.
As a US resident/citizen and business owner you know like me what hefty privacy and data protection laws we are subject to. The responsibility lies with the sender, not the recipient. Invoices are confidential. Not only do they contain banking information, sometimes in combination with your federal ID, they may also contain your handwritten signature that can be scanned and copied.
Regarding the Senior PMs: I can confirm that. I do, however, suspect that I "accidentally" receive all those entire strings of client/PM correspondence on purpose because after 3 or 5 or 7 years of collaboration the Senior PM knows that the vendor knows much better what to make out of it.
| | |
|
|
|
jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 11:40
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Nicole Schnell wrote: jyuan_us wrote: Tom in London wrote: Nicole Schnell wrote:
I find attaching invoices to a delivered translation extremely tacky... Me too. It says: "I'm desperate for money and I need payment now or I'll get thrown out of my house" "My translation is perfect. Don't even think about querying anything in it. Send the money immediately". Nicole and Tom are both correct. In addition to Tom's comment, your invoice might be forwarded to the client or the editor by accident. By the way, based on my experience, more experienced PMs are much more likely to make that kind of mistake than those less experienced. It might be because the former are less careful or simply burnt out. Regarding the Senior PMs: I can confirm that. I do, however, suspect that I "accidentally" receive all those entire strings of client/PM correspondence on purpose because after 3 or 5 or 7 years of collaboration the Senior PM knows that the vendor knows much better what to make out of it.
You are absolutely right. The senior PMs tend to trust us more as e-mail senders.
I'd like to take this opportunity to warn everybody: Never, ever, include your invoice in the same zip folder of your delivered files. In doing that, you put your confidential information highly risky.
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:40
Hebrew to English
| Not about absolutes | Sep 29, 2013 |
jyuan_us wrote:
You are absolutely right. The senior PMs tend to trust us more as e-mail senders.
I'd like to take this opportunity to warn everybody: Never, ever, include your invoice in the same zip folder of your delivered files. In doing that, you put your confidential information highly risky.
Let me first say that I don't send my invoices along with my files, not because I see anything "wrong" with it, but because I just don't work like that - it takes me at least a week to get my act together after finishing a project to free myself up to start invoicing, this is also the length of time I expect to have resolved any loose ends, if any exist or crop up. So it works quite well for me. Many of my clients also have dedicated email accounts where I send the invoices which are quite separate from the PMs' email accounts where I send the finished work. However, some don't.
To be blunt, confidential information is at risk the moment you start sending it back and forth over unencrypted email channels, which is the mode of transfer for a lot of translation work. In addition, there's nothing on my invoices which is particularly sensitive if the worst should happen (my IBAN and BIC alone won't get you anywhere).
If there's no separate email account to send invoices (and even if there is), then the same thing i.e. invoice being sent to end client or other third party could theoretically happen even if you send it separately from the project files. It's not a fool-proof method of avoiding this. You could argue that separate emails minimize this risk, but I'd say it's debatable how much the risk is reduced. The potential for human error is still there, regardless.
Let me be clear:
There are very valid arguments both for and against attaching an invoice to the same email as the project files. Tom and Nicole raise valid points, but so do the others on this thread who have the opposite opinion.
In essence, there are no "rights" and "wrongs", and certainly no absolutes.
[Edited at 2013-09-29 08:29 GMT]
| | | | | Some points here | Sep 29, 2013 |
jyuan_us wrote:
I'd like to take this opportunity to warn everybody: Never, ever, include your invoice in the same zip folder of your delivered files. In doing that, you put your confidential information highly risky.
What confidential information?
The banking/tax details included in my invoice enable anyone to send me money, most of such info is printed on my checks. It's not sufficient to withdraw any funds from my account.
If a translation were delivered in hard copy - like it was when I began translating professionally - and had to cross international or state borders, it would have to be open for inspection by tax/customs officers. At least, the invoice, bill of lading, or whatever shipping document would be on the outside for this purpose. So, technically, a commercial invoice never was a confidential document.
Ty Kendall wrote:
Let me first say that I don't send my invoices along with my files, not because I see anything "wrong" with it, but because I just don't work like that - it takes me at least a week to get my act together after finishing a project to free myself up to start invoicing, this is also the length of time I expect to have resolved any loose ends, if any exist or crop up.
Since ancient times, it is customary to send any merchandise together with a document evidencing the commercial transaction that caused such shipment. This may be a receipt if it's been paid for, an invoice if it hasn't, a bill of lading, whatever. Otherwise it may be deemed as a non-commercial gift.
Unless a translation client is a one-person operation, the person who hired your services (usually a PM in a translation agency) must know ASAP how much their company is being charged for them: if it matches the PO to the dot, or if such amount could only be determined after the job has been completed. This person then must give their okay to another person whose task is to pay it whenever it's due.
Otherwise a slick 'translator' could - without having been hired to do anything - send a bogus invoice to invoices @ agency for an imaginary job, and actually get paid! Farfetched? Well, if you browse the Blue Board, you'll find several cases of LWA=1, where the agency replied, 'Kindly inform what work you did for us, and when. We have no record of you here.'
The invoicing process adds no value to the job, yet it is unavoidable. So it must be quick, to avoid incurring in higher costs than necessary. Once I spent half a day developing an e-form to issue an invoice in less than five minutes. It has been working for some 7 years already. Think about it.
Ty Kendall wrote:
So it works quite well for me. Many of my clients also have dedicated email accounts where I send the invoices which are quite separate from the PMs' email accounts where I send the finished work. However, some don't.
Yes. It makes sense, though, unless instructed otherwise, so I send that invoice to both the PM and that accounts e-mail. Depending on the client setup, this will enable the PM to access their accounts system and click on 'OK for payment' if they have to, or to do anything else, if anything doesn't match.
Ty Kendall wrote:
To be blunt, confidential information is at risk the moment you start sending it back and forth over unencrypted email channels, which is the mode of transfer for a lot of translation work. In addition, there's nothing on my invoices which is particularly sensitive if the worst should happen (my IBAN and BIC alone won't get you anywhere).
Considering the customary NDAs, the job itself is much more confidential than the invoice. However you are correct in saying that the BIC/IBAN/Swift is really useless for anyone else.
Ty Kendall wrote:
If there's no separate email account to send invoices (and even if there is), then the same thing i.e. invoice being sent to end client or other third party could theoretically happen even if you send it separately from the project files. It's not a fool-proof method of avoiding this. You could argue that separate emails minimize this risk, but I'd say it's debatable how much the risk is reduced. The potential for human error is still there, regardless.
Agree 100%. I don't know of any case where an invoice of mine caused any harm by arriving at the wrong hands. Conversely, now and then (always direct clients, never a translation agency) I get estimate requests with bids from other translators attached; junior secretaries in law firms are the most frequent culprits.
Ty Kendall wrote:
Let me be clear:
There are very valid arguments both for and against attaching an invoice to the same email as the project files. Tom and Nicole raise valid points, but so do the others on this thread who have the opposite opinion.
In essence, there are no "rights" and "wrongs", and certainly no absolutes.
Definitely! Common sense remains the translator's (and any other professional's) most valuable tool.
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » How is the communication in between you and the client done? | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
| | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
