| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Specialising in cosmetics Thread poster: Rachel E
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Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 00:16
Member (2007)
English
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| Sexist comments are sad, IMO | Mar 4, 2013 |
philgoddard wrote:
If I said that women were not the right people to translate heavy engineering, I'd soon get put in my place.
You would indeed, Phil, and rightly so, IMO.
I'm shocked to see two people suggesting that straight males are incapable of translating this stuff.
Frankly, so am I. Just as upset as I would be were any man (or indeed woman) to tell me that I wasn't capable of translating anything to do with motor sport, one of my interest areas and ex-hobbies. I don't hold with any of these "pink for girls and blue for boys" indoctrinations: my daughter is a mechanical engineer, my son wears a pony-tail, and my early-retiree husband cleans the house while I work - so what? And what does sexual orientation have to do with it, either? We're not talking about wearing make-up (and after all, not all women wear it, I can vouch for that).
We should all do what we do best, regardless of what sex we are, and if I'm ever presented with a make-up translation, I'll be only to happy to pass it to you, Phil. Fellow females, please don't categorise the entire human race according to those pink versus blue rules.
| | | | Tatty
Local time: 01:16
Spanish to English
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| Translations about make-up | Mar 5, 2013 |
I must admit though that I find translating texts about make-up thoroughly enjoyable, which is probably because I am a make-up wearing woman. Naturally, a man could come up with a translation that is just as good if not better than mine. An advantage that I would have, however, is that I have spent years reading the blurb on bottles and packaging. An agency could take this into account, but in fact you will never know.
BTW, engineering is relatively accessible on the Internet, footb... See more I must admit though that I find translating texts about make-up thoroughly enjoyable, which is probably because I am a make-up wearing woman. Naturally, a man could come up with a translation that is just as good if not better than mine. An advantage that I would have, however, is that I have spent years reading the blurb on bottles and packaging. An agency could take this into account, but in fact you will never know.
BTW, engineering is relatively accessible on the Internet, football, on the other hand, is a different kettle of fish. I wouldn't turn down a text on football though, as I know that I have help at hand. ▲ Collapse
| | | | inkweaver
Germany
Local time: 01:16
French to German
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Texte Style wrote:
As a Project Manager I found it quite hard to place this sort of translation: it was too scientific for the people I knew working in fashion, and scientific translators considered it too frivolous for their comfort zone. And it's a girl-only zone: even the gay male translators I knew who took lingerie in their stride would reject the cosmetics stuff out of hand. So there's definitely a niche!
I fail to see anything sexist in what Texte Style wrote. As far as I understand her, she is simply stating that according to her experience male translators used to reject cosmetics-related assignment. That doesn't imply that men are incapable of translating or have no right to translate this sort of stuff, does it?
| | | | Tatty
Local time: 01:16
Spanish to English
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| It probably is sexist | Mar 5, 2013 |
She is basically saying that men do not feel that they are capable of translating cosmetics-related texts and that is why they reject this type of work, even the gay ones.
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nrichy (X)
France
Local time: 01:16
French to Dutch
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| What I wrote was not sexist | Mar 5, 2013 |
Just statistics. Lots of men do not like these jobs.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 01:16
French to English
| My post was not sexist! | Mar 5, 2013 |
philgoddard wrote:
I'm shocked to see two people suggesting that straight males are incapable of translating this stuff. I'm neither female nor gay, and I do quite a lot of it, along with fashion and jewelry. Most of it is marketing, which doesn't require firsthand experience of applying lipstick or wearing dresses, but does demand the ability to write creative, persuasive text.
If I said that women were not the right people to translate heavy engineering, I'd soon get put in my place.
Any other males out there agree with me?
[Edited at 2013-03-04 21:06 GMT]
Hey Phil, if you read me carefully you'd see that my experience as PM was that I only ever had refusals from male translators when I sent them texts about cosmetics.
If I sent the stuff to them in the first place it was because I considered them perfectly capable of handing in a brilliant job. It rather surprised me that only women ever took them on.
And I obviously never found you when looking for a translator
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 01:16
French to English
| Thank you Inkweaver! | Mar 5, 2013 |
inkweaver wrote: Texte Style wrote:
As a Project Manager I found it quite hard to place this sort of translation: it was too scientific for the people I knew working in fashion, and scientific translators considered it too frivolous for their comfort zone. And it's a girl-only zone: even the gay male translators I knew who took lingerie in their stride would reject the cosmetics stuff out of hand. So there's definitely a niche!
I fail to see anything sexist in what Texte Style wrote. As far as I understand her, she is simply stating that according to her experience male translators used to reject cosmetics-related assignment. That doesn't imply that men are incapable of translating or have no right to translate this sort of stuff, does it?
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 01:16
French to English
| Don't understand your post | Mar 5, 2013 |
Tatty wrote:
She is basically saying that men do not feel that they are capable of translating cosmetics-related texts and that is why they reject this type of work, even the gay ones.
Please explain why this is probably sexist Tatty (as you said in your title).
It's the men refusing to do the work, because they don't feel capable of turning in a good translation.
If I were being sexist I wouldn't even bother to send the stuff to them in the first place.
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Kay Denney
France
Local time: 01:16
French to English
| Please read me carefully Sheila | Mar 5, 2013 |
Sheila Wilson wrote: philgoddard wrote:
If I said that women were not the right people to translate heavy engineering, I'd soon get put in my place. You would indeed, Phil, and rightly so, IMO. I'm shocked to see two people suggesting that straight males are incapable of translating this stuff. Frankly, so am I. Just as upset as I would be were any man (or indeed woman) to tell me that I wasn't capable of translating anything to do with motor sport, one of my interest areas and ex-hobbies. I don't hold with any of these "pink for girls and blue for boys" indoctrinations: my daughter is a mechanical engineer, my son wears a pony-tail, and my early-retiree husband cleans the house while I work - so what? And what does sexual orientation have to do with it, either? We're not talking about wearing make-up (and after all, not all women wear it, I can vouch for that). We should all do what we do best, regardless of what sex we are, and if I'm ever presented with a make-up translation, I'll be only to happy to pass it to you, Phil. Fellow females, please don't categorise the entire human race according to those pink versus blue rules.
When I was a PM the best translator for any texts about motorbikes happened to be a woman.
The reason I mentioned gays was because they would accept fashion stuff, whereas *most* straight males would refuse it. The gays who accepted the fashion stuff still drew a line at cosmetics.
I would offer all sorts of stuff to translators according to their talents, and simply observed that the men would refuse stuff that women wouldn't.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 00:16
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Partial retraction | Mar 5, 2013 |
OK, Texte Style, I've re-read your posts carefully, and that of nrichy. Both of you used the term "girl-only", and I do object to that term when used in a professional environment. Having a baby might be a girl-only province (for the moment at any rate), but translating anything at all is not, IMHO, any more than anything other than fathering a child should be considered as man-only.
However, I should have reacted to P... See more OK, Texte Style, I've re-read your posts carefully, and that of nrichy. Both of you used the term "girl-only", and I do object to that term when used in a professional environment. Having a baby might be a girl-only province (for the moment at any rate), but translating anything at all is not, IMHO, any more than anything other than fathering a child should be considered as man-only.
However, I should have reacted to Phil's use of the word "incapable" - it wasn't what you said, and I can see that it wasn't what you meant, either - my apologies. My problem is that when anyone seeks to divide the sexes in such an arbitrary way, the red haze comes down. I never joined the campaign for "women's lib" because the leaders always seemed to go over the top and it ended up as "man-hate" and "women's superiority", which is just as bad; but equality of the sexes and equal opportunity for the sexes is incredibly important, IMO.
Anyway, I'm sorry if I've caused your thread to go off-topic, Rachel E.
Let's get back on topic. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tatty
Local time: 01:16
Spanish to English
+ ...
This obviously is sidetracking from the poster's original question but it probably was in essence a sexist statement because a generalisation was implicit.
Naturally, her experience as a PM is limited in time and to a certain number of assignments. On the basis of this limited representation she has extrapolated. This is where the danger lies. Having a black or Asian friend doesn't preclude you from being a racist. It is the same type of argument. The danger lies in the extrapolatio... See more This obviously is sidetracking from the poster's original question but it probably was in essence a sexist statement because a generalisation was implicit.
Naturally, her experience as a PM is limited in time and to a certain number of assignments. On the basis of this limited representation she has extrapolated. This is where the danger lies. Having a black or Asian friend doesn't preclude you from being a racist. It is the same type of argument. The danger lies in the extrapolations or the generalisations.
Furthermore, the tone of the post is very forthright and it has caused a negative reaction from one male contributor, and no less significantly from one female contributor. She does also outright state at one point that translating cosmetics-related texts is a girl-only zone.
On the strength of these four point, I believe I have justified my assertion that the statement could be interpreted as being sexist, but it is only an opinion...
I did actually allude to an explanation for men's feelings of inadequacy in this area in my previous post, namely, that they have not spent years reading the blurb of packaging. Personally, I wouldn't reject a translation about football because, although I only have limited football knowledge myself, I have someone at home to help me. This may be a solution for men and cosmetics-related texts. Alternatively, they could just have a look at similar products on the Internet and incorporate some of the blurb into their texts. This is very easy to do, and works a treat, which is why cosmetics, IMO, could never really be an specialised area of translation. And if I were submitting my CV to agencies for work, I would make sure I included other areas of "specialisation" not just cosmetics.
That's enough philosophy for me today.
Good luck ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jessie LN
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:16
Spanish to English
+ ...
One way to gain a more in-depth understanding of cosmetics is to try making your own, so you have first-hand experience at least at a basic level.
There are lots of recipes and instructions online that will help you make your own makeup, face/body creams, lip balms, etc. I make my own all the time.
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