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Let's form a big team
Thread poster: sunny197888
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Siegfried Armbruster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:39
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
Definitely not Dec 31, 2012

ATIL KAYHAN wrote:
We are already a big team under ProZ.


Participating in an online market place does not make me a member of any team. And I definitely refuse to be in a team with agencies offering peanuts and translators accepting peanuts and producing crap.

PROZ is a company, selling various services. We are not in a team with PROZ and we are not in a team with our competitors who are also participating in this online market place.

For those who don't know what a team is, here one of many definitions:

A group of people with a full set of complementary skills required to complete a task, job, or project.
Team members (1) operate with a high degree of interdependence, (2) share authority and responsibility for self-management, (3) are accountable for the collective performance, and (4) work toward a common goal and shared rewards(s). A team becomes more than just a collection of people when a strong sense of mutual commitment creates synergy, thus generating performance greater than the sum of the performance of its individual members.

Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/team.html#ixzz2GcCFpyFf


 
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Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule

Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:39
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Agree with Siegfried Jan 1, 2013

And I think the competitive aspect he mentions is especially worth noting: Those working within the same language pairs and fields are no more or less than competitors. There is nothing wrong with this. Competition does not have to mean cutthroat competition and also does not exclude the possibility of collaboration and mutual respect. But it is still competition.

And it should be added that this competitive element includes many instances in which one's peers are of
... See more
And I think the competitive aspect he mentions is especially worth noting: Those working within the same language pairs and fields are no more or less than competitors. There is nothing wrong with this. Competition does not have to mean cutthroat competition and also does not exclude the possibility of collaboration and mutual respect. But it is still competition.

And it should be added that this competitive element includes many instances in which one's peers are offering what at least purport to be the same services for fees that are between 40% and 70% lower.

You needn't consider those offering such significantly lower rates in the same language pair and content fields as you as your enemies. But they really aren't exactly your friends either, and they certainly aren't your "teammates."
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Giles Watson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 16:39
Italian to English
In memoriam
Γνῶθι σαυτόν, or "The secret is specialisation" Jan 1, 2013

Robert Forstag wrote:

But they really aren't exactly your friends either, and they certainly aren't your "teammates."



No, not exactly teammates but other translators in the same language combination can be a resource if you specialise, though.

Excellence is the key to above-average rates and there are only so many sectors in which any one translator can excel. Proz is one way in which you can find out what other translators are good at. When inquiries for work in other areas turn up, it makes sense to pass the jobs on to colleagues you can trust, particularly if you have more than enough work in your own sectors.

That way you earn brownie points - as opposed to Browniz - with your colleague, you boost your reputation as a problem-solver and, most important, the customer gets the best service possible in the circumstances.

Buon anno a tutti!


 

manasamiro
Egypt
Local time: 17:39
English to Arabic
agree with Giles Jan 1, 2013

team work will help our group to be the best. we should try this idea.

 

Rolf Kern  Identity Verified
Switzerland
Local time: 16:39
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
With Nicole Jan 1, 2013

She wrote:

It doesn't make much sense to invite colleagues at random to your team who:

- serve different markets
- serve different geographic markets
- serve different language pairs
- charge about three times as much as you do

You will not get any collaboration established.

That's also my opinion
Rolf Kern
Zurich/Switzerland

[Bearbeitet am 2013-01-01 22:34 GMT]


 

Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:39
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
@Giles Jan 2, 2013

Several points are in order:

1.
At least in my language pair, acquiring a high level of expertise in a particular field does not necessarily enable a translator to command fees that are much higher than average. Plenty of jobs involving legal translation (for example) are contracted to translators charging middle-of-the-road (or lower) rates who do not have an especially high level of expertise as legal translators. It seems logical to infer that the many agencies that follow
... See more
Several points are in order:

1.
At least in my language pair, acquiring a high level of expertise in a particular field does not necessarily enable a translator to command fees that are much higher than average. Plenty of jobs involving legal translation (for example) are contracted to translators charging middle-of-the-road (or lower) rates who do not have an especially high level of expertise as legal translators. It seems logical to infer that the many agencies that follow this kind of practice are simply unwilling to pay 30%-50% more to have their documents translated by someone who could legitimately claim to be an "expert" legal translator.

2.
I have no data to back up the following assertion, but I would hazard a guess that most translators (even significantly experienced ones) do not practice with the kind of high level of specialization that you counsel. I also surmise that most would say that they simply cannot afford to turn down the numerous jobs that they are offered in areas in which they are to one degree or another competent--but hardly specialists.

If I am right on this point, the implication is that very large numbers of translators working in a given language pair are indeed competing (or are at the very least potential competitors) for the same kinds of jobs in any number of different areas.

3.
If you are going to pass on work to a colleague that you claim has earned your trust, then the basis of a full-throated endorsement of that colleague should properly be a review of at least several projects that individual has completed in the area in question. How many of us have such intimate knowledge of our colleagues' work?

4.
Finally (again, at least in my pair) most of those who are charging significantly below (already depressed) average rates are simply not competent translators to whom I would even think about referring any business. This point is especially important because this is the group to which I referred in my previous post.

And I stand by the assertion that such persons are neither my friends nor my potential teammates.

[Edited at 2013-01-02 12:56 GMT]
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Siegfried Armbruster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:39
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
Nothing wrong, this does not make us a team Jan 2, 2013

Giles Watson wrote:
No, not exactly teammates but other translators in the same language combination can be a resource if you specialise, though.
Excellence is the key to above-average rates and there are only so many sectors in which any one translator can excel. Proz is one way in which you can find out what other translators are good at. When inquiries for work in other areas turn up, it makes sense to pass the jobs on to colleagues you can trust, particularly if you have more than enough work in your own sectors.
That way you earn brownie points - as opposed to Browniz - with your colleague, you boost your reputation as a problem-solver and, most important, the customer gets the best service possible in the circumstances.


This is what has been happening for years and what we will continue to do, but recommending a colleague does not make us a team.

And as I said it before, I don't even consider joining a team with certain groups of PROZ members. Team forming has long ago started to happen outside of Proz, e.g. in closed Facebook groups, where the team members are screened before they are accepted. These groups a gaining power, but since they are closed, PROZ does not even recognize this trend. There is also serious business happening there, and never at peanuts rates.


 

sunny197888  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 23:39
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
let's make friends first Jan 3, 2013

my facebook is fangrobert2003@hotmail.com, or skype: sh-robert-fang

 

Peter Gleason  Identity Verified
United States
Russian to English
+ ...
I Love this Thread Jan 3, 2013

2470 views. Count me in!

 

Giles Watson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 16:39
Italian to English
In memoriam
Don't disagree with Robert Jan 3, 2013

Robert Forstag wrote:

Several points are in order:

1.
At least in my language pair, acquiring a high level of expertise in a particular field does not necessarily enable a translator to command fees that are much higher than average. Plenty of jobs involving legal translation (for example) are contracted to translators charging middle-of-the-road (or lower) rates who do not have an especially high level of expertise as legal translators. It seems logical to infer that the many agencies that follow this kind of practice are simply unwilling to pay 30%-50% more to have their documents translated by someone who could legitimately claim to be an "expert" legal translator.



I imagine you are right Robert but I don't do legal and I don't work for agencies. The few legal jobs I get offered, generally by wine-sector businesses for which I continue to do other work, I pass on to colleagues. I have no idea what rates they charge but I do know their work is satisfactory.

Since suitably qualified colleagues aren't always available, I sometimes refer customers to agencies I trust.

As you say, the problem is finding the qualified colleagues in sectors with which you are not directly familiar.



2.
I have no data to back up the following assertion, but I would hazard a guess that most translators (even significantly experienced ones) do not practice with the kind of high level of specialization that you counsel. I also surmise that most would say that they simply cannot afford to turn down the numerous jobs that they are offered in areas in which they are to one degree or another competent--but hardly specialists.

If I am right on this point, the implication is that very large numbers of translators working in a given language pair are indeed competing (or are at the very least potential competitors) for the same kinds of jobs in any number of different areas.



And those who cannot find some competitive advantage (not necessarily specialisation) will fail.



3.
If you are going to pass on work to a colleague that you claim has earned your trust, then the basis of a full-throated endorsement of that colleague should properly be a review of at least several projects that individual has completed in the area in question. How many of us have such intimate knowledge of our colleagues' work?



The strength of the recommendation should obviously reflect such knowledge, which tends to come from working on projects together. If I don't know anyone appropriately qualified, I say so to the customer. If the customer is getting desperate, I suggest one of the agencies I know as fallback solution. But of course if I can't recommend anyone, I don't.



4.
Finally (again, at least in my pair) most of those who are charging significantly below (already depressed) average rates are simply not competent translators to whom I would even think about referring any business. This point is especially important because this is the group to which I referred in my previous post.

And I stand by the assertion that such persons are neither my friends nor my potential teammates.



Absolutely.

Proz is useful because it allows you to put a name to some of the translators to avoid


 
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