| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Membership ends: thanks everybody for your help and bye Thread poster: Pedro Godfroid
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| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | John Fossey 
Canada
Local time: 00:10
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
Pedro Godfroid wrote:
It's hopeless.
Pedro,
Please understand that many of us have been in the same situation as you and have succeeded. It is most definitely not hopeless, not even in Spain. "Hopeless" is a state of mind. I won't repeat the advice that other colleagues have given in this and other threads, but the answers are there.
John
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:10
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Pedro Godfroid wrote:
It's hopeless.
"Paréceme, Sancho, que no hay refrán que no sea verdadero, porque todos son sentencias sacadas de la misma experiencia, madre de las ciencias todas, especialmente aquel que dice: donde una puerta se cierra otra se abre"
Cervantes
| | | | Gyula Erdesz
Hungary
Local time: 06:10
Member (2009)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Pedro Godfroid wrote:
Marketing is essential. And I'm extremely lousy at all marketing...
Your post has been read by 2042 colleagues & potential outsourcers within less than 24h. I could not even imagine a more effective way to draw attention to you. I guess your Proz profile page receives hundreds of clicks in these days.
Congratulations.
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Pedro Godfroid
Local time: 06:10
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER
Hey, John, how are you doing?
John Fossey wrote: Pedro Godfroid wrote:
It's hopeless.
Pedro, Please understand that many of us have been in the same situation as you and have succeeded.
Just as I have succeeded in places where others have failed. No big deal.
We've already discussed this. I just do not have the talent for marketing required to get a job. Not even a single one.
Yes, I know you think talent is not required for marketing but my experience in failing tells me otherwise. If I do the work and it does not works, the problem is not the lack of work but the lack of talent for the work.
It is most definitely not hopeless, not even in Spain. "Hopeless" is a state of mind. I won't repeat the advice that other colleagues have given in this and other threads, but the answers are there.
John
It is John, it is. At least in the marketing for translation department. I just cannot loose any more time on something that is completely non-productive. Time is running our for me and I need to find *some* source of income, no matter how small. And this is not getting me a single penny. On the contrary.
Of course, I'm still trying wirepulling, the better way to get something down here, but I do not have powerful or rich friends so probabilities are low for jobs like translation. But I do get stuff, although sometimes a bit far-out like doing security jobs at my age. But that's what my buddies can get me and I'm happy they do.
Thanks anyway for everything and happy to have had the opportunity to know you.
| | | | | hidden marketing | Sep 4, 2012 |
Gyula Erdész wrote: Pedro Godfroid wrote:
Marketing is essential. And I'm extremely lousy at all marketing... Your post has been read by 2042 colleagues & potential outsourcers within less than 24h. I could not even imagine a more effective way to draw attention to you. I guess your Proz profile page receives hundreds of clicks in these days. Congratulations.
Exactly my thoughts!
P.s. Good luck Pedro!
[Edited at 2012-09-04 13:29 GMT]
| | | | Pedro Godfroid
Local time: 06:10
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Gyula Erdész wrote: Pedro Godfroid wrote:
Marketing is essential. And I'm extremely lousy at all marketing... Your post has been read by 2042 colleagues & potential outsourcers within less than 24h. I could not even imagine a more effective way to draw attention to you. I guess your Proz profile page receives hundreds of clicks in these days. Congratulations.
That already happened when I got here first. And even more as I was a total n00b, even more than now, very intent in getting a job and with such an heterodox outlook that it was very polemic and got a lot of reactions and feedback. Feedback that was very helpful and made me change several times my views, methods, manners and attitude.
But neither that nor the visibility gained did get me any job. Not a single one. Nopthing, nada, zilch. So it was a fail, an epic fail that has shown that, even with the help of knowledgeable people like all of you, I'm still incredible shitty at marketing.
So yes, I can congratulate myself for being such a visible and known epic failure... :-/
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Even giving up here, that marketing problem will keep following you around when trying to find a job. If you are lousy at marketing, you need to learn to be less lousy at it, as simple as that.
No mystical talent is required to get better at marketing. It is one of those things that you can get better at by following something not more complex than a cooking recipe. There is quite some resources about it here on proz, but as well on other places on the net.
The basic ... See more Even giving up here, that marketing problem will keep following you around when trying to find a job. If you are lousy at marketing, you need to learn to be less lousy at it, as simple as that.
No mystical talent is required to get better at marketing. It is one of those things that you can get better at by following something not more complex than a cooking recipe. There is quite some resources about it here on proz, but as well on other places on the net.
The basic problem here seems to me that you have decided that marketing is something you can't learn. Why shouldn't you? You have learned other things before. In these days, we have the great opportunity to get better at anything imaginable just by typing "How to [insert here whatever you want to know]" in a search engine. At least for the basics.
One of the points that strikes me immediately is this display of hopelessness. If you really wanted to efficiently market yourself here, you would have to cut the word "hopeless" or "I am lousy at ..." from your vocabulary. You wouldn't even have to change it to "I learn everything in one hour" and "I am great at ...". Just don't mention it. Display a positive attitude.
Yes, it can be awful to display anything we don't really feel like. But that is the trick and the great advantage of the internet - the other guys don't see that I have holes in my shoes or that I have spent the last week crying about my wretched life. They don't see exactly how many wrinkles I have in my face or that I have been living a reckless life before or whatever you want to insert here.
All this not even to convince you to remain here, although I really would say that if the problem is the marketing, you won't be able to run away from it anywhere else. Just some general remarks about learning and attitude. I hope you'll take them from someone only half your age, who has a lousy set of qualifications, but manages to balance that with a positive attitude, and who is really just trying to help.
Good luck with anything you decide to do! ▲ Collapse
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 06:10
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| BlueBoard not only for job offers | Sep 4, 2012 |
Pedro Godfroid wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
One nice thing about having a paid membership if you're a starting translator is that you can see in the Blue Board which clients are most reliable, and contact them only. And, as I said Bueboard is for those who get jobs and I did not get even a single one.
No, you can use the Blue Board as a directory of potential clients. Simply visit the web site of each agency with a high Blue Board rating and offer your services to them.
I've already done that for many companies and with a null result. It's hopeless.
Well, keep doing it. Just five e-mails or web site registrations per day.
[Edited at 2012-09-04 13:58 GMT]
| | | | inkweaver
Germany
Local time: 06:10
French to German
+ ...
Did you try and register with translation agencies, Pedro?
There are quite a few that actively invite translators to apply here on Proz.com and plenty that have an online registration form which you simply fill in. Almost no self-marketing skills required (Something that I'm not good at myself, I have to admit.)
Of course it's always a good idea to check their BB record first, since a job you don't get paid for in the ... See more Did you try and register with translation agencies, Pedro?
There are quite a few that actively invite translators to apply here on Proz.com and plenty that have an online registration form which you simply fill in. Almost no self-marketing skills required (Something that I'm not good at myself, I have to admit.)
Of course it's always a good idea to check their BB record first, since a job you don't get paid for in the end will only lead to further frustration.
If you have tried that already please disregard my advice. I just found that it worked quite well for me when I started almost 5 years ago.
Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide to do. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Pedro Godfroid
Local time: 06:10
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
inkweaver wrote: Did you try and register with translation agencies, Pedro? There are quite a few that actively invite translators to apply here on Proz.com and plenty that have an online registration form which you simply fill in. Almost no self-marketing skills required (Something that I'm not good at myself, I have to admit.) Of course it's always a good idea to check their BB record first, since a job you don't get paid for in the end will only lead to further frustration. If you have tried that already please disregard my advice. I just found that it worked quite well for me when I started almost 5 years ago. Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide to do.
I did. John here was the one who first gave me the tip.
I even got to sign NDAs and make all kinds of tests and stuff. And trial translations, quite long ones BTW, but none of this ended with any paid job.
| | | | Pedro Godfroid
Local time: 06:10
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Positive attitude. | Sep 4, 2012 |
Anna Sarah Krämer Fazendeiro wrote:
Even giving up here, that marketing problem will keep following you around when trying to find a job. If you are lousy at marketing, you need to learn to be less lousy at it, as simple as that.
No mystical talent is required to get better at marketing. It is one of those things that you can get better at by following something not more complex than a cooking recipe. There is quite some resources about it here on proz, but as well on other places on the net.
The basic problem here seems to me that you have decided that marketing is something you can't learn. Why shouldn't you? You have learned other things before. In these days, we have the great opportunity to get better at anything imaginable just by typing "How to [insert here whatever you want to know]" in a search engine. At least for the basics.
One of the points that strikes me immediately is this display of hopelessness. If you really wanted to efficiently market yourself here, you would have to cut the word "hopeless" or "I am lousy at ..." from your vocabulary. You wouldn't even have to change it to "I learn everything in one hour" and "I am great at ...". Just don't mention it. Display a positive attitude.
Yes, it can be awful to display anything we don't really feel like. But that is the trick and the great advantage of the internet - the other guys don't see that I have holes in my shoes or that I have spent the last week crying about my wretched life. They don't see exactly how many wrinkles I have in my face or that I have been living a reckless life before or whatever you want to insert here.
All this not even to convince you to remain here, although I really would say that if the problem is the marketing, you won't be able to run away from it anywhere else. Just some general remarks about learning and attitude. I hope you'll take them from someone only half your age, who has a lousy set of qualifications, but manages to balance that with a positive attitude, and who is really just trying to help.
Good luck with anything you decide to do!
If you just could understand how frustrating it is to hear people tell you "you don't have a positive attitude" and so on.
You want a positive attitude? How about that? I'm *sure* that, if I get even one, just a single one, translation job, I will do it so well that the customer will keep on giving me more and more jobs and will speak so well of my work that other customer will begin flowing in. I think that's a pretty positive attitude.
But the fact that I know that I'm a good translator does not make me a good marketer. Here, on the contrary I have experience and proof that I am not. Two failed business ventures in areas where I'm very knowledgeable: motorcycles and IT. But my expertise in the fields was not enough to make up for my incompetence as a seller and people person.
And you're indeed right and I'm conscious of that: my inability to sell makes selling myself a practically impossible job.
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Kipale78
Italy
Local time: 06:10
English to Italian
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| You don't need to pay for PROZ | Sep 4, 2012 |
Hi Pedro,
I just wanted to say that you don't need to be a "paying" member to get jobs on proz. I never paid and yet, as a "no-frill" member I landed 3 or 4 good jobs on here. And decently paid. I am no peanut-eater.
SO best of luck to you, but keep the profile and keep on checking the home page.
Ciao!
Alberto
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If you just could understand how frustrating it is to hear people tell you "you don't have a positive attitude" and so on.
You want a positive attitude? How about that? I'm *sure* that, if I get even one, just a single one, translation job, I will do it so well that the customer will keep on giving me more and more jobs and will speak so well of my work that other customer will begin flowing in. I think that's a pretty positive attitude.
But the fact that I know that I'm a good translator does not make me a good marketer. Here, on the contrary I have experience and proof that I am not. Two failed business ventures in areas where I'm very knowledgeable: motorcycles and IT. But my expertise in the fields was not enough to make up for my incompetence as a seller and people person.
And you're indeed right and I'm conscious of that: my inability to sell makes selling myself a practically impossible job.
And it is as well very frustrating to be so thoroughly misunderstood. I wrote plenty of lines about how you can learn how to market yourself, and that even if you are bad at it now, there are lots of recipes and information about it that you could follow, and you reply me with "I am very bad at marketing."
To which I only can reply "Then get better at it."
Because you just will have to market yourself if you want to get any job, not just as a translator. Even as a taxi driver.
The time you spend complaining about everything you tried already and how nothing worked so far could be better spent in learning how to get better at marketing. It can be learned, just like swimming or riding a bike.
| | | | Pedro Godfroid
Local time: 06:10
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | marketing and talent | Sep 4, 2012 |
Anna Sarah Krämer Fazendeiro wrote: If you just could understand how frustrating it is to hear people tell you "you don't have a positive attitude" and so on.
You want a positive attitude? How about that? I'm *sure* that, if I get even one, just a single one, translation job, I will do it so well that the customer will keep on giving me more and more jobs and will speak so well of my work that other customer will begin flowing in. I think that's a pretty positive attitude.
But the fact that I know that I'm a good translator does not make me a good marketer. Here, on the contrary I have experience and proof that I am not. Two failed business ventures in areas where I'm very knowledgeable: motorcycles and IT. But my expertise in the fields was not enough to make up for my incompetence as a seller and people person.
And you're indeed right and I'm conscious of that: my inability to sell makes selling myself a practically impossible job. And it is as well very frustrating to be so thoroughly misunderstood. I wrote plenty of lines about how you can learn how to market yourself, and that even if you are bad at it now, there are lots of recipes and information about it that you could follow, and you reply me with "I am very bad at marketing." To which I only can reply "Then get better at it." Because you just will have to market yourself if you want to get any job, not just as a translator. Even as a taxi driver. The time you spend complaining about everything you tried already and how nothing worked so far could be better spent in learning how to get better at marketing. It can be learned, just like swimming or riding a bike.
I groked you very well the first time.
I know that may be hard to understand for somebody with the talent. I myself find hard to understand how some people just seem unable to learn some things that are dead easy for me. As a road captain or as a coder, riding a bike or coding. Or dancing. But if you have no sense of the rhythm, you're going to always dance with two left feet, no matter how hard you try. Just like, due to my lack of musical hearing, I have never been able to be a musician. I did learn to play songs but I was not even able to tune my own guitar. I had to ask a friend...
So I *did* follow all the good advice that a lot of people gave on marketing. I changed my CV, presentation and so on many times. But that was something I did not "felt" nor had any kind of logic to my technical mind. I followed the advice. Then I asked for feedback and change more stuff based on this new advice, and so on. But that was mechanical and I never understood nor felt what I was doing. I was following advice, recipes and that's all.
Because, marketing is a people task and I'm not a people person. That's not something that is learned just like you do not learn a sense of rhythm, a musical ear or a sense of proportions (I also was dyslexic and "gaucher visuel", visual leftie so I had a similar problem with that too). Even today at my age, I have to rely on my wife to tell me the stuff about the people that I'm unable to feel and to help me avoid blunders.
And you're right, it's definitely a hurdle in *any* job search. My chance has been that when I was young in IT, people actually *searched* for me and I did not have to go through the job searching routines. So things changed radically when I got older and fell out of view of the head-hunters. And worse and worse. Until now...
And no, I do not plan to look for a job as a taxi driver. I know I would never get one. I consider using _my_own_bike_, one of my few remaining assets, as a taxi. So no employer to convince. And on a bike, there's not going to be a lot of chatting.
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