Language pairs/ Dip Trans IoL Thread poster: zoi_f (X)
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zoi_f (X)
Local time: 20:36
Russian to English
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Hello, I've followed some of the posts here which has been really helpful. I have a few questions that weren't answered though.
I want to begin a course in preparation the IoL Dip Trans (possibly the distance learning course suggested on an earlier post). My target language would be English but I'm not sure which source language to choose for the course and exam. I took French, Russian and Italian to Final Honours level for my BA. I am very confident in French , it is technically also a ... See more Hello, I've followed some of the posts here which has been really helpful. I have a few questions that weren't answered though.
I want to begin a course in preparation the IoL Dip Trans (possibly the distance learning course suggested on an earlier post). My target language would be English but I'm not sure which source language to choose for the course and exam. I took French, Russian and Italian to Final Honours level for my BA. I am very confident in French , it is technically also a native language but I'm confident in Russian too and wouldn't it be good to concentrate on a language pair that's a bit 'rare'? And there's my Italian which is very good too.
Would it be good to concentrate on only one language pair for the exam? I wonder if would be better to choose a few different pairs to build confidence and image as a multi-lingual translator.
Any advice/constructive criticism is welcome.
Finally ANY tips or info from translators who have taken City University's distance learning course would be very much appreciated!
Thanks. Zoi ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lia Fail (X) 
Spain
Local time: 21:36
Spanish to English
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| French, Russian and Italian ª? | Nov 12, 2003 |
zoi_f wrote:
Hello, I've followed some of the posts here which has been really helpful. I have a few questions that weren't answered though.
I want to begin a course in preparation the IoL Dip Trans (possibly the distance learning course suggested on an earlier post). My target language would be English but I'm not sure which source language to choose for the course and exam. I took French, Russian and Italian to Final Honours level for my BA. I am very confident in French , it is technically also a native language but I'm confident in Russian too and wouldn't it be good to concentrate on a language pair that's a bit 'rare'? And there's my Italian which is very good too.
Would it be good to concentrate on only one language pair for the exam? I wonder if would be better to choose a few different pairs to build confidence and image as a multi-lingual translator.
Any advice/constructive criticism is welcome.
Finally ANY tips or info from translators who have taken City University's distance learning course would be very much appreciated!
Thanks. Zoi
Of the three languages I would either choose my 'best' one or the 'rarest', the former becuase the exam is tough, the latter becuase ºtºhe FR-EN cºoºmºbination ºis very common so it might be better to foicus on aº raºrer combination (but beaºr in mind the relaºtive rwealtºhº of the sºource country, poorer countries hºave more non-ºnºatives, implying cºhºeaper ratesª)
º
ªI would not worry too muºch abºout the actºuºal combination, at teh end of the day,º oºbtaining tºhe ºIOL says as mºuºch ºabout ºTRANSLATION SKILLS as it dºoes about lºanguage skills, mayºbe more.º On thºat basis,º mºaybºe go for your best foºreiºgn ºlanagºuage as source
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Hi
I would say there were two issues here: which language to be examined in and which to offer as a translator in business. The extent to which having or not having the IOL impacts on how much work you get is a hazy subject. In my case I do not have it and I get work.
Certainly, in terms of the first language pair you offer on a CV or other decxription of your skills Russian would seem the best choice; it is a big and potentially rich country, you can command higher rates, and... See more Hi
I would say there were two issues here: which language to be examined in and which to offer as a translator in business. The extent to which having or not having the IOL impacts on how much work you get is a hazy subject. In my case I do not have it and I get work.
Certainly, in terms of the first language pair you offer on a CV or other decxription of your skills Russian would seem the best choice; it is a big and potentially rich country, you can command higher rates, and there are probably fewer of you around.
cheers
spencer ▲ Collapse
| | | | zoi_f (X)
Local time: 20:36
Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | cheaper rates? | Nov 12, 2003 |
You bring up a good point about the relative wealth of the countries and the effects on rates. Could you just clarify what you mean? Do you mean that I'm looking at cheaper rates for the RU>EN language pair because non-native speakers of English are willing to translate in this pair for cheaper rates?
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FXF (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:36
English to French
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| IOL DipTrans language pair and professional language pairs | Nov 12, 2003 |
Spencer Allman wrote:
I would say there were two issues here: which language to be examined in and which to offer as a translator in business. The extent to which having or not having the IOL impacts on how much work you get is a hazy subject. In my case I do not have it and I get work.
I believe passing the IOL DipTrans in just one language pair amply proves your worth as a translator, especially so as you are supposed to always translate into your mother tongue. (Passing it in more than one language pair is certainly a waste of time).
COnsequently, passing it is a matter of picking the language pair in which you are most likely to be successful.
I passed the DipTrans with the EN>FR pair but translate in three pairs: EN>FR (65% of my contracts), DE>FR (25%) and IT>FR (10%).
I cannot quantify the extent to which holding the DipTrans brings me work, but it has certainly given me a sound working method and knowledge of translation even before getting my first translation job.
I should also mention that being specialised is a huge advantage and that certain language pairs might definitely be in greater demand in certain specialised fields.
For instance, there is a dearth of translators in the field of financial markets for the GE>FR and IT>FR pairs, of which I profit directly.
Bearing this in mind, you may want to combine these factors to decide which language pair to be examined in, and which ones to (seriously) include in your translation services.
Francois
| | | | zoi_f (X)
Local time: 20:36
Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Dip Trans/higher rates? | Nov 12, 2003 |
Spencer Allman wrote:
Hi
I would say there were two issues here: which language to be examined in and which to offer as a translator in business. The extent to which having or not having the IOL impacts on how much work you get is a hazy subject. In my case I do not have it and I get work.
Certainly, in terms of the first language pair you offer on a CV or other decxription of your skills Russian would seem the best choice; it is a big and potentially rich country, you can command higher rates, and there are probably fewer of you around.
cheers
spencer
Hi Spencer. Thanks for pointing out that there are two issues and responding to both.
1.Regarding the Dip Trans, I've never heard anyone to suggest this qualification to attract clients. I think it would boost my confidence a bit though. I'm either competing with people who have postgraduate degrees or diplomas or years of experience (like yourself). Maybe I'm wrong but it seems that the competition is feirce and that a BA isn't very substantial these days.
2. I thought that the rarer language would command higher rates as you say. However that contradicts what I understood from Ailish's post. Admittedly I may have misunderstood her.
| | | | zoi_f (X)
Local time: 20:36
Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Different pairs for different parts of the exam? | Nov 12, 2003 |
Francois-Xavier Faure wrote:
I believe passing the IOL DipTrans in just one language pair amply proves your worth as a translator, especially so as you are supposed to always translate into your mother tongue. (Passing it in more than one language pair is certainly a waste of time).
COnsequently, passing it is a matter of picking the language pair in which you are most likely to be successful.
I should also mention that being specialised is a huge advantage and that certain language pairs might definitely be in greater demand in certain specialised fields.
For instance, there is a dearth of translators in the field of financial markets for the GE>FR and IT>FR pairs, of which I profit directly.
Bearing this in mind, you may want to combine these factors to decide which language pair to be examined in, and which ones to (seriously) include in your translation services.
Francois
Hi Francois, thanks for your reply.
About passing the exam in more than one language, maybe you misunderstood. I don't intend to take the the exam more than once for different language pairs!
If I could I would choose to do different parts in different pairs (my target language remaining English) but can that be done? If so wouldn't it be more work but relatively more rewarding?
Certainly being specialised is a serious advantage. Frankly I regret the choice of my BA and wish I had a Law, Business or IT degree so I could now use my language skills in translating in these fields. However this is evidently not the case! And I can't do another BA at this point. What are you suggesting?
Zoi
[Edited at 2003-11-13 00:42]
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:36
Flemish to English
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The only language which commands rather high rates is Japanese.
Russian>English: I am afraid that there are well qualified translators in Russia with an excellent command of English who will make those translations at "Russian rates".
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Veritas
Local time: 21:36
Spanish to English
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| Choosing your Dip.Trans. pair | Nov 13, 2003 |
Zoi,
As far as I'm aware, you can't do different parts of the IoL Dip.Trans. in different language pairs.
It is possible to take all three papers on separate occasions, but the actual diploma qualifies you for a single language pair.
My advice in terms of both a personal and business approach would be to go for your strongest pair (which appears to be FR>EN) initially.
On a personal level, you'll find the exam easier and have a good chance of ... See more Zoi,
As far as I'm aware, you can't do different parts of the IoL Dip.Trans. in different language pairs.
It is possible to take all three papers on separate occasions, but the actual diploma qualifies you for a single language pair.
My advice in terms of both a personal and business approach would be to go for your strongest pair (which appears to be FR>EN) initially.
On a personal level, you'll find the exam easier and have a good chance of passing all three papers first time (no easy task), perhaps with outstanding marks.
On a business level, you'll be able to offer a high quality service and feel confident in your own abilities - two vital ingredients in a successful enterprise. You also have to remember that every job requires research into the subject matter. If you are not living in Russia, I would imagine that it would be much more difficult to access reference materials for the RU>EN combination than for the FR>EN one, which again affects quality and self-confidence.
There is more competition for FR>EN, but it also a huge market with room for more qualified translators providing a high-quality service.
On another note, the IoL Dip.Trans. is a benchmark for translation competence in a certain pair and I personally would consider it worthwhile gaining the qualification in more than one pair, in this case RU>EN.
So, my suggestion is that you take the IoL Dip.Trans. in FR>EN and establish yourself as a competent translator. Later, once you feel confident, test the water for the RU>EN pair and consider gaining the qualification in this pair as well.
Good luck.
[Edited at 2003-11-13 10:18] ▲ Collapse
| | | | zoi_f (X)
Local time: 20:36
Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Very convincing... | Nov 13, 2003 |
Veritas wrote:
Zoi,
As far as I'm aware, you can't do different parts of the IoL Dip.Trans. in different language pairs.
It is possible to take all three papers on separate occasions, but the actual diploma qualifies you for a single language pair.
My advice in terms of both a personal and business approach would be to go for your strongest pair (which appears to be FR>EN) initially.
On a personal level, you'll find the exam easier and have a good chance of passing all three papers first time (no easy task), perhaps with outstanding marks.
On a business level, you'll be able to offer a high quality service and feel confident in your own abilities - two vital ingredients in a successful enterprise. You also have to remember that every job requires research into the subject matter. If you are not living in Russia, I would imagine that it would be much more difficult to access reference materials for the RU>EN combination than for the FR>EN one, which again affects quality and self-confidence.
There is more competition for FR>EN, but it also a huge market with room for more qualified translators providing a high-quality service.
On another note, the IoL Dip.Trans. is a benchmark for translation competence in a certain pair and I personally would consider it worthwhile gaining the qualification in more than one pair, in this case RU>EN.
So, my suggestion is that you take the IoL Dip.Trans. in FR>EN and establish yourself as a competent translator. Later, once you feel confident, test the water for the RU>EN pair and consider gaining the qualification in this pair as well.
Good luck.
[Edited at 2003-11-13 10:18]
Hello and thanks for clearing up my query regarding the Dip Trans. Furthermore your advice about my choice of language pair seems very sound. I'll have to think about doing it twice though. The thing about my Russian, it's not like riding a bycicle is it? You lose touch with a language. It's been my baby for the past four years and I just spent a year in Russia. Maybe I should strike while the iron is hot?
Again maybe this is a question directly for the Russian forum but I wonder if there are any other opinions on the availability of reference materials in Russian?
Again, thanks a lot. I think you may be right but I need more convincing!
Zoi
| | | | zoi_f (X)
Local time: 20:36
Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | A future maybe? | Nov 13, 2003 |
Williamson wrote:
The only language which commands rather high rates is Japanese.
Russian>English: I am afraid that there are well qualified translators in Russia with an excellent command of English who will make those translations at "Russian rates".
I think you're right about the rates at the moment. There's always a chance the industry will pick up along with foriegn investment. Rates could go up and Russians could become occupied by translation into Russian...
Another question for the Russian forum maybe but also in general about language pairs containing English. Is the market bigger for a pair having English as a target rather than a source language? It'd be interesting to know translators' thoughts on this.
Zoi
| | | | FXF (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:36
English to French
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zoi_f wrote:
Another question for the Russian forum maybe but also in general about language pairs containing English. Is the market bigger for a pair having English as a target rather than a source language?
Zoi
I think it is smaller.
Job stats on proz:
http://www.proz.com/topic/13995
[Edited at 2003-11-13 12:58]
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zoi_f wrote:
Another question for the Russian forum maybe but also in general about language pairs containing English. Is the market bigger for a pair having English as a target rather than a source language? It'd be interesting to know translators' thoughts on this.
Zoi
I don't think it's a question necessarily of having English as a source or target, but of where your market lies. It also depends a lot on your specializations. I think it works this way - there is more demand for English target translation in the country of your source language. My main pair is DE>EN, and I am in the US, but 99.9% of my work comes from Germany/Austria. I do know one other DE>EN translator who gets all of her work from the US, but I think this principle applies in general.
It definitely applies to in-house jobs in the US - you will be hard-pressed to find one translating into English in the private sector. Public sector is different (think Arabic to English right now!)
It might be different for languages like French and Russian, though; I'm just speaking from my German>US English experience.
Incidentally you would be well-advised to stick with >English if that is your native language. Although there are rare exceptions (esp. in languages of limited diffusion, I think they're called), most translators only translate into their native lang.
| | | | zoi_f (X)
Local time: 20:36
Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Interesting! | Nov 13, 2003 |
Daina Jauntirans wrote: zoi_f wrote:
Another question for the Russian forum maybe but also in general about language pairs containing English. Is the market bigger for a pair having English as a target rather than a source language? It'd be interesting to know translators' thoughts on this.
Zoi I don't think it's a question necessarily of having English as a source or target, but of where your market lies. It also depends a lot on your specializations. I think it works this way - there is more demand for English target translation in the country of your source language. My main pair is DE>EN, and I am in the US, but 99.9% of my work comes from Germany/Austria. I do know one other DE>EN translator who gets all of her work from the US, but I think this principle applies in general. It definitely applies to in-house jobs in the US - you will be hard-pressed to find one translating into English in the private sector. Public sector is different (think Arabic to English right now!) It might be different for languages like French and Russian, though; I'm just speaking from my German>US English experience. Incidentally you would be well-advised to stick with >English if that is your native language. Although there are rare exceptions (esp. in languages of limited diffusion, I think they're called), most translators only translate into their native lang.
Hi Daina, I need to get my head around all you say. What I understand though is that translation from a source language into English will be on greatest demand in the country that has that source language.. Wow it's already been a long day! I'll try and think about this one more and write later.
No questions asked about translating into mother tongue-it's definitely not the issue here. My question was incidental.
Zoi
| | | | | my experience, some thoughts and suggestions | Nov 15, 2003 |
...there is more demand for English target translation in the country of your source language.
I have exactly the same experience as Daina. My bread-and-butter language pair is German>English. I live in Canada and about 75% of my clients are European, of which 95% are German. So to reiterate: there is more work into my target language in the country of my source language. This applies to Fr>En as well.
I specialize in engineering, IT and telecoms in the above language pairs. Rare has been the time when a North American (or even European) company seeks translation into English in these subjects. I speak of German, French and Spanish. Fogedabout Russian!
Most Russian>English work, I have come to believe, is outsourced to Russia. In the 80s and 90s there was a lot of work in the fields of aerospace, military, government, oil & gas and patents. These days the work has dissipated and, if anything remains, it mainly focuses on O&G, some finance/legal and government.
There is no dearth of Ru>En work in Russia and it's easy enough to find an in-house position even for an inostranets. I had a cushy job at Price WaterhouseCoopers for 3 years which paid for a lot of trips abroad: think 7-week paid holiday (that could be stretched to 9) and a travel allowance!
When I left the country, all Ru>En work disappeared and all my efforts in finding some have come to nought. Nonetheless, I know there are still agencies in Houston, for example, that do regular work for NASA but they prefer Texas residents. Some NGOs and think-tanks in DC require Ru>En translation but I think this is sporadic and again they mostly outsource to US residents.
Your language combinations of Ru/Fr/It>En are useful if you eventually wish to work for international organizations like the UN, the EU, UNESCO, etc.
The UN test is really tough. The test for English translators is held every 4-5 years. Even if you pass, your name is put on a roster which only moves if somebody dies or retires. (and you know those *senior* members in intl orgs, they work until they're dragged outtader!)
Anyway, for the test you need to have perfect French since more than half of the exam is Fr>En. And to compensate for the fact that French is widely read and widely learned, the texts chosen for the exam are tremendously difficult. Mind you, in contrast to tests administered by translator orgs like the ATA, no reference books and dictionaries of any sort are allowed during the exam.
Once you pass, the pay is acceptable: about US$55K + benefits, tax-free, for a UN P1 post. This may have changed.
So my suggestion: to find work in Europe you need to specialize in a field (fields) in Fr/It>En. There is steady work in engineering, finance and IT in Fr>En. It is not worth going the extra mile to find work in Ru>En in Europe and North America. However, there is a constant stream of work in this pair in Russia, in particular Moscow.
Good luck! Tell us about the succes of your endeavors later.
Marcus
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