| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Sneak preview of Déjà Vu X3! Thread poster: Michael Beijer
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mikhailo
Local time: 03:27
English to Russian
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... because I don't see the advantage of working with three files when you can work on one file in the all files view with one real-time preview.
Perhaps you mean creating a separate view of any 3 files out of the 30? I believe that's in the pipeline.
I mean 3 files. Italian (mostly) companies often create manuals divided in sections in standalone files. And I want to work with full manual rather than with different sections.
No advantage? With some dozen thousands segments in file DV works not so quickly as anybody wants.
Well, the preview is only a guide but imagine you had 30 Word files in a project with lots of overlap. I think most translators would find one big preview useful rather than having to keep track of where they are by opening 30 different documents, either in Word, or in memoQ (where the preview only works for individual documents, not for a named view of all the documents, AFAIK).
Preview of what? Final documents will look like? NO. Originals? NO.
Preview with partly formatted text? IMHO - For correctly segmented original files it's not very useful, especially for DV users accustomed to its codes.
Hmm, tags have been replaced by inline formatting in Office (other formats to come, I believe), there's a real-time all-files preview for Office files, the Office file import and export speed is now blazingly fast (and largely tag free) and newbees can see all the goodies under the hood through the ribbon. Aren't those some of the things that DV came into criticism for in the past?
Agree. But criticism derives from the fact that all other competitors already have these features (without a long waiting).
These are good news for newbies.
But really
Inline formatting — I see some codes on screens. When shall we got complete solution?
Real time preview — ???
Office import — Can DV3 import all DOC (not docx) now? - this is really useful for newbies, cause they know nothing. Rogue codes - especially in Word from PDF - is this really perfect in DV3? It's also important for newbies cause they usually don't know about Codezapper.
RIBBON for newbies????? Did You help to users of Word 7,10,13 after 2003? Could You try to explain where to find there buttons that are on panels in 2003?
With tile-like win8 even MICROSOFT understands that DEVALUATION OF USERS EXPERIENCE MUST BE AVOIDED AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
And where the RIBBON that was stated as MAIN IMPROVEMENT OF DV3 (SOMEBODY IS CRAZY) was asked by users?
I think "end of February" was mentioned in the webinar.
better keep silence than not to keep promises. If final version of MQ 2013 appears before DVX3, Atril will got in bad position.
| | | | Pavel Tsvetkov 
Bulgaria
Local time: 03:27
Member (2008)
English to Bulgarian
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Moderator of this forum | Most requested features have been implemented | Jan 15, 2014 |
I attended the first DVX3 Sneak Preview, and I feel excited, as it seems that most of the things I (and other users) have requested, will be implemented in the final release version of DVX 3:
– Tags will mostly be out of the picture
– Non-printing characters can be visualized
– Real time spell checking (and, yes, Microsoft Word spell checker as well)
– Three levels of segment finishing: translated, reviewed, approved
– Some form of autopropagation t... See more I attended the first DVX3 Sneak Preview, and I feel excited, as it seems that most of the things I (and other users) have requested, will be implemented in the final release version of DVX 3:
– Tags will mostly be out of the picture
– Non-printing characters can be visualized
– Real time spell checking (and, yes, Microsoft Word spell checker as well)
– Three levels of segment finishing: translated, reviewed, approved
– Some form of autopropagation to confirmed segments (forced propagation to lower-level marked segments only, alas)
– I have been promised – that the option to introduce source segment marking of recognized terms will be seriously looked into
This is all good news. The bad news is the price. The price for an upgrade from DVX 2 Pro will be more than 200 EUR, and the price for an upgrade from DVX 2 Workgroup will be more than 500 EUR!
However, Atril have had a long history or starting high and finishing low when it comes to prices, so I hope that six months from now prices will be much more reasonable!
Kind Regards,
PTs ▲ Collapse
| | | | | A few more answers... | Jan 15, 2014 |
I mean 3 files. Italian (mostly) companies often create manuals divided in sections in standalone files. And I want to work with full manual rather than with different sections.
So you want to create a specific view of any number of individual files? I think I said that was in the pipeline.
Preview of what? Final documents will look like? NO. Originals? NO.
Preview with partly formatted text? IMHO - For correctly segmented original files it's not very useful, especially for DV users accustomed to its codes.
Are you saying that the whole idea of the Preview (memoQ's, SDL's, etc.) is no good? Or just Atril's implementation of it?
Agree. But criticism derives from the fact that all other competitors already have these features (without a long waiting).
It seems you get criticised if you don't catch up *and* when you actually do. I suppose the only choice is to push on ahead until you're out front by a couple of laps;-)
But really
Inline formatting — I see some codes on screens. When shall we got complete solution?
Well, bold, italic, underline and supercript/subscript is a start, surely? Colours will no doubt follow but Word has dozens of other font possibilities and combinations so there will always be a few tags in *all* tools, I'd say.
Rogue codes - especially in Word from PDF - is this really perfect in DV3? It's also important for newbies cause they usually don't know about Codezapper.
The new Office filters do away with CodeZapper for normal Word files (doc and docx) but junk-converted PDFs with text squashed up or in fonts that vary in font size, name or colour from one word or one letter another will always be a problem without some pre-processing.
better keep silence than not to keep promises.
Well, you're the one who asked the question!
I guess if they'd said: "Can't say for the time being" you would have said: "See, they can't even indicate a date"!
| | | | | Don't forget that... | Jan 15, 2014 |
Epameinondas Soufleros wrote:
From what I've seen, the one thing I really don't like is the white colour scheme and the lack of alternative, darker ones (I've asked Atril and they said there are no alternative colour schemes).
... it was only a sneak peek and not yet the final thing.
I heard they were planning to add other color schemes to the UI.
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| I heard that this is also to be implemented... | Jan 15, 2014 |
Epameinondas Soufleros wrote:
Can you please ask the developers to make it possible to copy part of the source segment to the target? I mean what memoQ does with Ctrl+Shift+T
... through the F5 key. No source selection, copy whole segment, otherwise copy text selected in source to the last cursor position in the target.
Two birds with one stone (poor birds).
There seem to be plenty of other goodies on the way.
| | | | | Is this one of the goodies to come? | Jan 15, 2014 |
Do you know if we will be able to add non-translatables quickly? I mean this:
- Switch to the source segment
- Mark the word(s) that you want to add to the Lexicon (the regular one or one specifically for non-translatables)
- Press one button or press a keyboard shortcut and you're set.
This way, the user doesn't need to first paste the non-translatable to the target and then mark it both in the source and in the target segment in order to co... See more Do you know if we will be able to add non-translatables quickly? I mean this:
- Switch to the source segment
- Mark the word(s) that you want to add to the Lexicon (the regular one or one specifically for non-translatables)
- Press one button or press a keyboard shortcut and you're set.
This way, the user doesn't need to first paste the non-translatable to the target and then mark it both in the source and in the target segment in order to commit a non-translatable to the Lexicon.
Useful, don't you think?
Oh, and one last suggestion (you're one of the beta testers, right?):
Please tell Atril to make the dialog box of the project creation wizard either larger or resizable. It is tiny as it is, especially when adding TMs and TBs. Therefore, I always skip those steps and add my TMs and TBs later, using Project>Properties. But it would be nice to have a more spacious / resizable project creation wizard.
[Edited at 2014-01-15 14:47 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-01-15 15:46 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Numerals! Numerals! Numerals! Please! Please ! Please! | Jan 15, 2014 |
... (bouncing, bouncing, bouncing) ... either to put them in as shortkey or to be integrated into the AutoSuggest function: I am still suffering of tendonitis...
| | | | | Definitely, ... | Jan 15, 2014 |
... I know other people have already asked for this:
Epameinondas Soufleros wrote:
Do you know if we will be able to add non-translatables quickly?
Useful, don't you think?
In the meantime, I use this AHK script:
; Ctrl-F1 - Copy source selection to target and send to Lexicon
; Start with source selected and cursor on source side
^F1::
WinGetActiveTitle, Title
StringLeft, rtest, Title, 4
; Check to see whether we're dealing with Deja Vu X or Déjà Vu X2
If (rtest="Deja") OR (rtest="Déjà")
{
Clipboard =
SendInput, ^c ; copy source selection
ClipWait
SendInput, {Tab} ; tab to target
SendInput, ^{Home} ; move to start
SendInput, ^v ; paste
Sleep 100
SendInput, ^+{Home} ; select pasted text
SendInput, {F10} ; send to Lexicon
SendInput, ^+{Home} ; select text again
SendInput, {Del} ; and delete from target side
return
}
return
Another thing we need is toggle on/off source protection
Oh, and one last suggestion (you're one of the beta testers, right?):
Please tell Atril to make the dialog box of the project creation wizard either larger or resizable. It is tiny as it is, especially when adding TMs and TBs. Therefore, I always skip those steps and add my TMs and TBs later, using Project>Properties. But it would be nice to have a more spacious / resizable project creation wizard.
I think the wizards are being given a long-overdue overhaul
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mikhailo
Local time: 03:27
English to Russian
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So you want to create a specific view of any number of individual files? I think I said that was in the pipeline.
Yes. If DV project is a MS Access DB - what's a problem with this?
Are you saying that the whole idea of the Preview (memoQ's, SDL's, etc.) is no good? Or just Atril's implementation of it?
Due to a lot of working formats the preview will never work good for all of them (You will got users' claims), but will take a lot of programmers work (that can be spent on more useful things). When Atril was #1 it could let to develop it. Now I can't say so.
It seems you get criticised if you don't catch up *and* when you actually do. I suppose the only choice is to push on ahead until you're out front by a couple of laps;-)
If You need a couple of laps, You don't like Your job and hardly can do something worth (and definitely will never be the NUMBER 1). Maybe Atril is the exclusion from this rule? I don't know.
Well, bold, italic, underline and supercript/subscript is a start, surely? Colours will no doubt follow but Word has dozens of other font possibilities and combinations so there will always be a few tags in *all* tools, I'd say.
For me correct working with small inline images is more important. MQ can do that. DV divides sentence on such images.
Superscript/subscripts - I use unicode ² ³ etc. that I can type easy with Ilya Birman Typography keyboard layout (recommended).
Colors - professional writers rather colorize whole sentences (segments) than words.
And with preview - It seems a duplicated work - You can see formatting inline and, I suppose, it's only the thing You can view on preview.
The new Office filters do away with CodeZapper for normal Word files (doc and docx) but junk-converted PDFs with text squashed up or in fonts that vary in font size, name or colour from one word or one letter another will always be a problem without some pre-processing.
Normal Word files are fairy tales. MS couldn't make simple and clear spec of docx and good doc-docx filter. Most of tech writers can't do them directly in Word. PDF have no way to get original file from.
So we should work with garbage and feed them to DV.
Well, you're the one who asked the question!
I guess if they'd said: "Can't say for the time being" you would have said: "See, they can't even indicate a date"!
If Atril always kept their promises we have nothing to discuss.
I'd better like to see the list of features to implement in the next version where everybody can add features/vote(add «likes») for them so everybody can see the way the software goes ahead.
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mikhailo wrote:
Yes. If DV project is a MS Access DB - what's a problem with this?
I didn't say it was a problem: I just didn't follow what you wanted to do. As I said, it's in the pipeline.
Due to a lot of working formats the preview will never work good for all of them
No but it will for 95% of them. The majority of translators only ever receive Word documents.
If You need a couple of laps, You don't like Your job and hardly can do something worth (and definitely will never be the NUMBER 1). Maybe Atril is the exclusion from this rule? I don't know.
You've lost me there. No idea what you mean.
For me correct working with small inline images is more important. MQ can do that. DV divides sentence on such images.
Does it? If it does, it must be easy enough to fix.
Superscript/subscripts - I use unicode ² ³ etc. that I can type easy with Ilya Birman Typography keyboard layout (recommended).
You may be able to in the target, but it's not much fun if you have lots of {1}H{2}2{3}SO{4}4{5} in the source.
And with preview - It seems a duplicated work - You can see formatting inline and, I suppose, it's only the thing You can view on preview.
So you're not in favour of inline formatting *or* the real-time preview?
Although memoQ has always had inline formatting, I've usually found it has *more* tags than the same document in DVX2. Stripping the formatting away as much as possible certainly can have it's advantages in documents where only titles are bolded say. I've seen cases where there are no tags in DVX and a few hundred in memoQ as the titles in italics also had tags around them.
AFAIK, the old Office filters are to remain in parallel with the new ones, for the time being at least.
DVX3 projects will be backward compatible with DVX2 projects. You won't have to *migrate* all your resources as in the case of other tools. DVX2 TMs, TBs and projects will be able to be used out of the box, AFAIK.
I'd better like to see the list of features to implement in the next version where everybody can add features/vote(add «likes») for them so everybody can see the way the software goes ahead.
What other features would you like? Draw up a list and perhaps they'll implement them.
| | | | mikhailo
Local time: 03:27
English to Russian
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No but it will for 95% of them. The majority of translators only ever receive Word documents.
I see that 6X-7X% of docs comes in PDF.
You've lost me there. No idea what you mean.
Only passionate professionals can do something new. Passion does not require slaps.
I haven't seen anything really amazing made by peoples, that require slaps (only few very good copies and rather at gunpoint). So does Atril from No1 become a copyist? Or does Atril from Master become a slave that needs slaps?
Does it? If it does, it must be easy enough to fix.
There were a lot of updates for DVX2 but SDLXLIFF bad entity problem hadn't solved completely.
Even with Win 8.1 installation problem Atril waited for a problem message on Forum
You may be able to in the target, but it's not much fun if you have lots of {1}H{2}2{3}SO{4}4{5} in the source.
The problem that I can't export documents from DV with absent even unimportant tags.
So you're not in favour of inline formatting *or* the real-time preview?
IFAIK a lot of peoples wants this feature. ME - NO (YES if You GUARANTEE that it will work flawless)
IMHO - I work a lot with tagged texts and I have no problem WITH html tags (like {b} for bold, {i} - italic, etc).
I think it takes much less programmer's time for Atril to make such tags instead of inline formatting.
Do not forget, that inline formatting usually required much more power from PC.
HOPE INLINE formatting SOLVES FOLLOWING PROBLEMS WITH DV-TAGGING
1. DV visualizes some of invisible (at least in Word) tags. WHAT FOR?
2 WHY THE SAME SENTENCE WITH AND WITHOUT TAGS ARE NOT 100% match (it's ridiculous, but the same applies to SINGLE WORD if it has tag inside).
3. EXPORT PROBLEM when some tags are removed (even unnecessary tags) (example - will DV3 exports file with some bold in original and no bold in translation?)
DVX3 projects will be backward compatible with DVX2 projects. You won't have to *migrate* all your resources as in the case of other tools. DVX2 TMs, TBs and projects will be able to be used out of the box, AFAIK.
AFTER TRADOS - THIS IS THING TO LOVE ATRIL FOR.
BUT IF TRADOS SAVES THE COMPATIBILITY FOR 2014-2017 NOBODY REMEMBERS IT IN DV.
What other features would you like? Draw up a list and perhaps they'll implement them.
I DO NOT BELIEVE.
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Only passionate professionals can do something new. Passion does not require slaps.
I haven't seen anything really amazing made by peoples, that require slaps (only few very good copies and rather at gunpoint). So does Atril from No1 become a copyist? Or does Atril from Master become a slave that needs slaps?
"laps" (one circuit of an athletics track) not "slaps" 
1. DV visualizes some of invisible (at least in Word) tags. WHAT FOR?
All tools do that. Some are hard to get rid of while others indicate slight, but real formatting changes (font color, name, size, etc.). Others show bookmarks, etc.
2 WHY THE SAME SENTENCE WITH AND WITHOUT TAGS ARE NOT 100% match (it's ridiculous, but the same applies to SINGLE WORD if it has tag inside).
I think such sentences are flagged as 100% if the tags are in the same position. It was probably decided it was too dangerous otherwise. I agree that this can be a problem at times.
3. EXPORT PROBLEM when some tags are removed (even unnecessary tags) (example - will DV3 exports file with some bold in original and no bold in translation?)
I think you will be able to export files with such differences in inline formatting but as you say, not all files are Office files.
I DO NOT BELIEVE
Much has been achieved in the last 2 or 3 years. I think they deserve some credit for that.
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mikhailo
Local time: 03:27
English to Russian
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David Turner wrote:
Much has been achieved in the last 2 or 3 years. I think they deserve some credit for that.
Except «Machine Translation» (I don't remember who had implemented it first) NOTHING NEW has been achieved in the last 2 or 3 years.
In DV3 Atril have implemented features that other TM have years before.
| | | | | "I don't remember" may the operative phrase... | Jan 23, 2014 |
Except «Machine Translation» (I don't remember who had implemented it first) NOTHING NEW has been achieved in the last 2 or 3 years.
How about (to name but a few):
- DeepMiner
- AutoWrite
- Project templates
- SmartView
- Divide and Dispatch
- Nested filter
- Regex filter
- Embedded objects filter
- Real time project progress indicator
To you actually use DVX2?
[Edited at 2014-01-24 01:04 GMT]
| | | | Olav Karlsen
Norway
Local time: 02:27
English to Norwegian
+ ...
| Upgrade from DVX2 Workgroup | Jan 28, 2014 |
Sarah McDowell wrote:
Thanks for your reply Michael.
I actually have DV X2, which I love, and I was wondering if DV X3 is an improvement on X2. I also have memoQ and like it a lot too.
I have never tried Cafe Tran. Why do you say it's more fun?
Now I have spent a lot of Euros on my DVX2 Workgroup to guarantee file interchangeability With Trados 2014 - which is Limited and has cost me a lot of extra work and money due to having to iron out errors on borrowed time. Shall I have to Shell out even more Money for an X3 upgrade just to get a software version that does just what the old one (X2) should have done in the first place? I don't think it is fair.
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