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One of my DV X2 TM´s suffers amnesia...
Thread poster: Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:45
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Feb 12, 2013

...or even Alzheimer´s!

I´m really desperate:
By coincident I found out that several files have only be integrated monolingually (just the source) into at least one of my TM´s I created for my projects. How can this be???
Even an export of the TM proofes it: Only the source segment has been saved. The target row is empty / has not been created.
What could be the reason?
Applying two TM´s (among max. 5 for concordance) also for saving?
The repair fun
... See more
...or even Alzheimer´s!

I´m really desperate:
By coincident I found out that several files have only be integrated monolingually (just the source) into at least one of my TM´s I created for my projects. How can this be???
Even an export of the TM proofes it: Only the source segment has been saved. The target row is empty / has not been created.
What could be the reason?
Applying two TM´s (among max. 5 for concordance) also for saving?
The repair function I sometimes apply like recommended in the manual?
One of the dozen´s of crashes I experience in certain situations?
The only thing which remains are the translated files, but the rest is gone!
Even trying deliberately to create a monolingual TM isn´t possible. And yes, I always used the latest version of DV X2.
Is there anybody who shares my experience or who could help? Thanks so much!

Best,

Matthias
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Endre Both
Endre Both  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:45
English to German
Target language mixup? Feb 12, 2013

Matthias, I have neither experienced that nor ever heard of it happening to others. It would also be extremely unusual for all source segments to be in the TM but no target segments at all (if the cause were data corruption, I would expect it to affect both languages).

Are you sure that the source segments have no translation in the TM into any language? The idea being that sometimes people set up their projects with the wrong language pair (in your case that would be the wro
... See more
Matthias, I have neither experienced that nor ever heard of it happening to others. It would also be extremely unusual for all source segments to be in the TM but no target segments at all (if the cause were data corruption, I would expect it to affect both languages).

Are you sure that the source segments have no translation in the TM into any language? The idea being that sometimes people set up their projects with the wrong language pair (in your case that would be the wrong target language). Do you still have the projects you processed those files in? Then you could check the language pair in the project(s).

If there has been no user error, then this is definitely a case for Atril support.

Endre
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Victor Dewsbery
Victor Dewsbery  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:45
German to English
+ ...
Language variants Feb 12, 2013

What variants of your language pairs have you used in these projects?
If the target language in the project was Austrian German, the target will be empty in the database for German German. The same for UK English / US English. The entries are still there, and as far as I know DVX2 still uses them in assembly etc. (although with a lower priority than the "right" target language), but they are not visible in the database if you specify the other variant.

I assume that you had Au
... See more
What variants of your language pairs have you used in these projects?
If the target language in the project was Austrian German, the target will be empty in the database for German German. The same for UK English / US English. The entries are still there, and as far as I know DVX2 still uses them in assembly etc. (although with a lower priority than the "right" target language), but they are not visible in the database if you specify the other variant.

I assume that you had AutoSend switched on and used the appropriate key combo when you finished the sentences, because otherwise the source segment would not be there.
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Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:45
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
@Victor Feb 12, 2013

Thank you very much for answering, but nor I do use language variants neither I ever forgot to switch on AutoSend. I just sometimes check which TMs are enabled and I sometimes add or remoce those for concordance. It cannot have occured while working on the project because when right after having finished the file(s) I always come back to it/ to them to correct little things here and there and still the TM jumped on with the relevant target segments I put in before.

 
Victor Dewsbery
Victor Dewsbery  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:45
German to English
+ ...
Support Feb 12, 2013

As Endre suggests, I would submit this to [email protected] .
I expect they would need some reference material (perhaps the projects involved and the offending TM).

[Edited at 2013-02-12 21:55 GMT]


 
Bernard Lieber
Bernard Lieber  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:45
English to French
+ ...
Send Project to TM Feb 12, 2013

Hi Matthias,

Assuming your project is ok why don't you create a new TM and Send Project to TM (Alt+F12) (Project Menu Item) - should fix the problem.

You can also try Repair Project if required.

You mean you're not keeping any sort of files, including *.dvprj files?

HTH,

Bernard

[Edited at 2013-02-12 22:02 GMT]

[Edited at 2013-02-12 22:05 GMT]


 
Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:45
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
@Bernard Feb 12, 2013

Hi Bernard, no, that´s no longer possible because I sometimes delete the files I have translated from the project. The projects I have created are long-term projects which would become too confusing when you leave every single file you ever have imported in the course of, let´s say, one year. And we are talking of .doc, .docx, .xls, sdlxliff and many other file types.

 
Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:45
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
@Victor Feb 12, 2013

Thanks. Yes, it would be the best solution although I doubt they will answer as far as I have heard from the experiences of other colleagues.

 
Bernard Lieber
Bernard Lieber  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:45
English to French
+ ...
Project Feb 12, 2013

I really don't understand what you're doing, you just have to back up the dvprj files even if you delete everything else -TMs, source files and TBs - you can reopen the project, the only error message you'll be getting is that there's not TM and/or TB - so create a blank TM and proceed as mentioned in my previous post, but if you've also deleted the project files, I'm afraid there's no solution in sight as far as I'm concerned.

Bernard

[Edited at 2013-02-12 22:24 GMT]


 
Endre Both
Endre Both  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:45
English to German
That could be it Feb 12, 2013

Matthias Brombach wrote:
I sometimes delete the files I have translated from the project. The projects I have created are long-term projects which would become too confusing when you leave every single file


As intuitive as this seems, it is a recipe for disaster because

a) DVX reassigns the ID of deleted files to newly imported files
b) DVX makes sure that there is always only one translation for a particular segment in the TM
c) DVX identifies segments by their segment ID and file ID

...which means that whenever you send segments from a new file to the TM, you are deleting any previous translations with that file and segment ID - which may however have come from a totally different file processed earlier.

Depending on how exactly this is implemented, it is possible that this is also at the root of the current problem (orphan source segments). Whether or not that is the case:

Never ever delete files from a project unless you don't mind if they are deleted from the TM as well.

This is really a weakness (though not a bug, technically) in DVX that I hope will be addressed in the future.

The alternative to reusing projects are project templates which make project creation a snap. Before templates became available, I used to add a date prefix to the file names, so that the newest files were always at the bottom of the list, allowing me to keep track of them easier even in projects with many files.

Endre


 
Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:45
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
@Bernard Feb 12, 2013

My apologies when I didn´t express myself very clear, but of course I converted the project files into target files before I deleted them. Do you create for each single file / job a separate project? I don´t. I have created a separate project for electrical installations in Dutch-German with all the relevant settings I need (TM, TB) and from time to time I work my relevant files in it and delete them when not needed, or I would have a project which wouldn´t be able to handle it after a year. ... See more
My apologies when I didn´t express myself very clear, but of course I converted the project files into target files before I deleted them. Do you create for each single file / job a separate project? I don´t. I have created a separate project for electrical installations in Dutch-German with all the relevant settings I need (TM, TB) and from time to time I work my relevant files in it and delete them when not needed, or I would have a project which wouldn´t be able to handle it after a year. And it works except for the cases I described.Collapse


 
Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:45
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Hard to believe Feb 12, 2013

although I get your point:

Endre Both wrote:

a) DVX reassigns the ID of deleted files to newly imported files
b) DVX makes sure that there is always only one translation for a particular segment in the TM
c) DVX identifies segments by their segment ID and file ID

...which means that whenever you send segments from a new file to the TM, you are deleting any previous translations with that file and segment ID - which may however have come from a totally different file processed earlier.

Endre


...but the files I import after having deleted the other files have a totally different designation and totally different source segments, of course, and for other TM´s of other projects it seems to be working, but I have to check this tomorrow. Thanks so far for all your suggestions, I will keep you updated should I find out a systematic which lead to the error.

Amendment:

Other TM´s of other projects are affected as well by this problem...you might be right.

[Bearbeitet am 2013-02-12 22:55 GMT]


 
Bernard Lieber
Bernard Lieber  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:45
English to French
+ ...
Project Files Feb 12, 2013

Hi Matthias,

The basic rule with CAT tools is that you can delete just about everything (TMs, TBs, source files and target files) but never project files because you can recreate TMs from bilingual files, i.e. project files, and as far as I know you can do it with every current CAT tool whether DVX, Studio, etc. However, if you delete the project files the only solution is to align the files again quite tedious most of the time, provided you've got the source and target files - you
... See more
Hi Matthias,

The basic rule with CAT tools is that you can delete just about everything (TMs, TBs, source files and target files) but never project files because you can recreate TMs from bilingual files, i.e. project files, and as far as I know you can do it with every current CAT tool whether DVX, Studio, etc. However, if you delete the project files the only solution is to align the files again quite tedious most of the time, provided you've got the source and target files - you can try Andras tool - he's just posted a new release a day or so ago, seems better than most tools provided by CAT tools editors.

Bernard
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Selcuk Akyuz
Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 08:45
English to Turkish
+ ...
Delete all pairs previously sent from this project? Feb 12, 2013

Hi Matthias,

Recycling projects, e.g. deleting older files and importing new files is not a good method. Size of the project increases in megabytes, a project with a size of 300-500 MB! Well there is a solution of course, you can repair/compact your project but sometimes we forget to do it.

Another problem, with recycling projects is the "Delete all pairs previously sent from this project" setting. When checked, DVX will delete segments (translations only) sent from pr
... See more
Hi Matthias,

Recycling projects, e.g. deleting older files and importing new files is not a good method. Size of the project increases in megabytes, a project with a size of 300-500 MB! Well there is a solution of course, you can repair/compact your project but sometimes we forget to do it.

Another problem, with recycling projects is the "Delete all pairs previously sent from this project" setting. When checked, DVX will delete segments (translations only) sent from previous files as well.

Let's say you have an Electrical Installations Dutch-German project, you translate files 1, 2 and 3. Send them to TM and delete those files from your project and import a new file 4. After translation, if you send the project to your TM with the setting "Delete all pairs previously sent from this project" checked, then all translations from files 1, 2 and 3 will be deleted and you will have only the translations from file 4 in your TM.

In short, if you recycle projects, be sure NOT to "Delete all pairs previously sent from this project."

From the DVX2 help file:


If you send a project/file to the translation memory, earlier instances of the segment pairs within that project/file you have already sent will be overwritten. Déjà Vu X2 Workgroup is able to recognize earlier instances by assigning unique project, file, and segment IDs to each segment pair in the translation memory. If a file within a project is deleted and a new file is imported, the same project, file, and segment IDs could be assigned to the new file, resulting in the deletion of anything sent from the earlier file to the associated translation memory. To avoid this, you should create new projects for your newly translatable files.
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Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:45
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Recycling of projects was the keyword, exactly Feb 13, 2013

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:

Well there is a solution of course, you can repair/compact your project but sometimes we forget to do it.


Hi Selcuk, I think now I get your point, also of the other peers. Yes, I found it genious to create a small number of main projects according to main subjects which keep the TM and TB settings and which will be used only when in need instead of creating for every single job a new project.
But do you think that my problem will be solved at least for future proceedings when I always apply the repair function after I have finished a single job (apart from unchecking the mentioned "Delete all pairs previously sent from this project" setting) and before I delete those files?


 
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One of my DV X2 TM´s suffers amnesia...






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