| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | What, in your opinion, should Atril change to make DejaVu X more attractive to customers? Thread poster: Pavel Tsvetkov
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Pavel Tsvetkov 
Bulgaria
Local time: 16:20
Member (2008)
English to Bulgarian
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Moderator of this forum TOPIC STARTER | You might not like the other aspects of relocating... | Jan 31, 2010 |
Textklick wrote:
Well I never knew that! Were I to purchase it, should I shift to an ISP in China or somewhere? What about the group buys on this portal - surely they are globally-valid prices?
Chris
I bought my Trados v2007 Freelance for about 400 EUR three years ago (if I am not mistaken), so, yes, that about equals the current "official" discount offer.
And, yes, you are welcome to come and live in Bulgaria, which is also part of the EU, but you might not like how translators are paid in this part of the world. I know many quality translators who are willing to work for 3 EUR per standard page (1800 characters including spaces)... (You might think this price is absurd (and rightly so), but if everyone around you is asking for/getting this exact price, it is difficult to get negotiation leverage. I personally, do not work for the domestic market for this exact reason, or only pay attention to customers willing to pay accordingly. I am one of very few.)
Now, do the maths and tell me if you are not better off staying where you are right now, and paying SDL what they ask for - in you part of the world 
Grzegorz Gryc wrote:
I hope the dongles will not be dropped.
I am starting to think the dongle is cool too, but I do not like I have to pay 44 EUR for shipment just to get it. Atril should be a little smarter than that and calculate the price of shipment into the price of the software, and tell prospective buyers shipment is free It is simple human psychology.
| | | | | Trados prices in "poor" countries... | Jan 31, 2010 |
Pavel Tsvetkov wrote: Textklick wrote:
Well I never knew that! Were I to purchase it, should I shift to an ISP in China or somewhere? What about the group buys on this portal - surely they are globally-valid prices? I bought my Trados v2007 Freelance for about 400 EUR three years ago (if I am not mistaken), so, yes, that about equals the current "official" discount offer.
In Central Europe, you may easily buy Trados Freelance for 300-350 euro on sales.
I think SDL knows perfectly the countries like Poland are crucial for their business.
In fact, AFAIK, the number of new licenses sold in Poland is probably one of the highest in the world.
So, an offer for some countries makes sense, at least in order to conquer emerging markets.
So Wordfast does.
Cheers
GG
| | | | Selcuk Akyuz
Türkiye
Local time: 16:20
English to Turkish
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| DVX prices in "developing" countries | Jan 31, 2010 |
I agree that DVX prices in some certain countries (Central (Eastern?) Europe, Turkey, Latin America, China, etc.) should be lower. Wordfast applies the normal price (EUR 330) only for the following countries:
The Americas: The USA, Mexico, Canada.
Europe: Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, Portugal, Spain, The Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, The United Kingdom.
Asia... See more I agree that DVX prices in some certain countries (Central (Eastern?) Europe, Turkey, Latin America, China, etc.) should be lower. Wordfast applies the normal price (EUR 330) only for the following countries:
The Americas: The USA, Mexico, Canada.
Europe: Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, Portugal, Spain, The Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, The United Kingdom.
Asia/Oceania: Australia, Brunei, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea, New Zealand, Singapore, Taiwan.
"Near East": Bahrain, Israel, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, UAE
Translators from other countries pay only EUR 165!
[Edited at 2010-01-31 19:33 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | absciarretta
United States
Local time: 14:20
Member (2008)
English to Norwegian
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| Completely change the TM-system | Feb 1, 2010 |
TM's are pretty much useless in DVX. Could you make them "pop in" automatically in the target like Trados does (over a certain match percentage)? The little window with the TM is almost impossible to read, and if you get a lot of hits there is a lot of scrolling (and swearing) involved.
There are lots of things I love in DVX, but the weakness with the TM is why it is no longer my main CAT-tool. I would also love an improvement of the Lexicon feature. It would be nice if it worked mo... See more TM's are pretty much useless in DVX. Could you make them "pop in" automatically in the target like Trados does (over a certain match percentage)? The little window with the TM is almost impossible to read, and if you get a lot of hits there is a lot of scrolling (and swearing) involved.
There are lots of things I love in DVX, but the weakness with the TM is why it is no longer my main CAT-tool. I would also love an improvement of the Lexicon feature. It would be nice if it worked more like Multiterm, with a heads-up when there is a match, and easier use for more than one project.
Maybe some of these things are already possible in DVX, but they are sure hard to find if they are! ▲ Collapse
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Herbert Eppel
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:20
German to English
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| Learn to use DVX properly | Feb 1, 2010 |
absciarretta wrote:
TM's are pretty much useless in DVX.
A pretty strong statement.
Are you sure you know how to use DVX properly?
And are you aware of the power of TBs and the AutoAssemble feature?
| | | | Selcuk Akyuz
Türkiye
Local time: 16:20
English to Turkish
+ ...
| Some settings | Feb 1, 2010 |
absciarretta wrote:
TM's are pretty much useless in DVX. Could you make them "pop in" automatically in the target like Trados does (over a certain match percentage)? The little window with the TM is almost impossible to read, and if you get a lot of hits there is a lot of scrolling (and swearing) involved.
There are lots of things I love in DVX, but the weakness with the TM is why it is no longer my main CAT-tool. I would also love an improvement of the Lexicon feature. It would be nice if it worked more like Multiterm, with a heads-up when there is a match, and easier use for more than one project.
Maybe some of these things are already possible in DVX, but they are sure hard to find if they are!
In Tools>Options>Environment
check Enable AutoSearch
check Display portions from Translation Memory
check Display all subportions (optional)
In Tools>Options>General
Minimum Score: between 30-60 (depends on the user)
You can adjust the size of each window in Deja Vu X, moreover you can increase the font size and change the font.
Font settings can be easily found in Tools>Options>Display>Window Type.. Change
Scrolling is easy: Just use Ctrl+Shift+Up/Down arrows
Many Deja Vu user use only the Terminology Database (which is equivalent of Multiterm,but much more easier to use). Lexicon is useful in some projects, but I suggest you to use (or learn the details of) Terminology Database.
All and more of these features are available in DVX.
HTH
Selcuk
| | | | absciarretta
United States
Local time: 14:20
Member (2008)
English to Norwegian
+ ...
Yes, I am aware of the autoassemble and I use both the TM's and the Lexicon. The thing is, they are hard to use. I have googled and googled to find info on how to make DVX easier to use, but it is nearly impossible to find help for DVX apart from searching the forums here.
The projects I usually have for DVX are already AutoAssembled, have huge TM's that I have to scroll through and I have tried various setups in order to make it easier to see them. I used DVX as my main CAT-tool fo... See more Yes, I am aware of the autoassemble and I use both the TM's and the Lexicon. The thing is, they are hard to use. I have googled and googled to find info on how to make DVX easier to use, but it is nearly impossible to find help for DVX apart from searching the forums here.
The projects I usually have for DVX are already AutoAssembled, have huge TM's that I have to scroll through and I have tried various setups in order to make it easier to see them. I used DVX as my main CAT-tool for several years but finally gave up because it was too inefficient when translating large projects compared to the Trados TagEditor (not the one that is Word-based, DVX is WAY better than that one!).
The Propagate feature could be great, but it is really hard not to accidentally overlook certain differences between segments. Trados Workbench highlights what is different between segments, which is incredibly helpful.
The Spellcheck actually works in DVX, you can add or change the words in the dictionary. You can mark segments as pending in DVX, which is an awesome feature.
The best part of DVX, though, is that you can keep tabs on were you are in the project (i.e. how many segments have I translated today), and you can "merge" all the files in a project so that you are not surprised by one file being way larger than you thought.
I have used many different CAT-tools, by the way: OmegaT, Foreigndesk, Trados for Word, Trados TagEditor, SDLX, and DVX.
I would love to go back to DVX, maybe the new version will make that possible. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Selcuk Akyuz
Türkiye
Local time: 16:20
English to Turkish
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| DejaVu-l at yahoo groups | Feb 1, 2010 |
There is a wonderful group of Deja Vu X users at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dejavu-l/
The group is active since 1998 with more than two thousand users, and if you cannot find an answer in approximately 100 K messages, please do not hesitate to ask. You will receive helpful replies immediately.
There is also an offici... See more There is a wonderful group of Deja Vu X users at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dejavu-l/
The group is active since 1998 with more than two thousand users, and if you cannot find an answer in approximately 100 K messages, please do not hesitate to ask. You will receive helpful replies immediately.
There is also an official support group: http://forums.atril.com/
[Edited at 2010-02-01 20:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Selcuk Akyuz
Türkiye
Local time: 16:20
English to Turkish
+ ...
| @absciarretta | Feb 1, 2010 |
absciarretta wrote:
The projects I usually have for DVX are already AutoAssembled, have huge TM's that I have to scroll through and I have tried various setups in order to make it easier to see them.
Why scroll through? Do yo open TMs in another window and search there? Suggestions are displayed if you check Enable AutoSearch in Tools>Options>Environment.
absciarretta wrote:
I used DVX as my main CAT-tool for several years but finally gave up because it was too inefficient when translating large projects compared to the Trados TagEditor (not the one that is Word-based, DVX is WAY better than that one!).
Details please. What do you mean by inefficient?
By the way do you remember that post http://www.proz.com/post/740552#740552
absciarretta wrote:
The Propagate feature could be great, but it is really hard not to accidentally overlook certain differences between segments. Trados Workbench highlights what is different between segments, which is incredibly helpful.
Propagate feature is really great, but AutoPropagate is better. There are some problems related to (Auto)Propagate with numbers, in particular if you have number only pairs in your TM. But, Propagate feature works great otherwise.
DVX also highlights the differences in fuzzy matches.
absciarretta wrote:
The best part of DVX, though, is that you can keep tabs on were you are in the project (i.e. how many segments have I translated today), and you can "merge" all the files in a project so that you are not surprised by one file being way larger than you thought.
This feature is really great as well. You don't need to merge files as in the case of Trados Studio or MemoQ.
absciarretta wrote:
I have used many different CAT-tools, by the way: OmegaT, Foreigndesk, Trados for Word, Trados TagEditor, SDLX, and DVX.
Same here Many DVX users are also proficient users of other CATs. We have used and compared all these tools and then found out that DVX is still the best of them.
absciarretta wrote:
I would love to go back to DVX, maybe the new version will make that possible.
No new version yet, but there is a new build 316 supporting xliff and sdlxliff files.
By the way, which edition (workgroup, professional, standard) and build are you using?
[Edited at 2010-02-01 20:45 GMT]
| | | | | It sounds like you must be using the "Standard" version ... | Feb 1, 2010 |
absciarretta wrote:
TM's are pretty much useless in DVX. Could you make them "pop in" automatically in the target like Trados does (over a certain match percentage)? The little window with the TM is almost impossible to read, and if you get a lot of hits there is a lot of scrolling (and swearing) involved.
... which, as far as I recall, has no AutoAssemble, no AutoSearch box, no AutoSend and no AutoPropagate. It's really only an editor with some neat sorting and filtering features.
As a professional translator, you really need the Professional version.
| | | | absciarretta
United States
Local time: 14:20
Member (2008)
English to Norwegian
+ ...
| Yes, I am using the Standard... | Feb 1, 2010 |
I will see if I can get my hands on a trial version of Professional and test it out.
I did, for a long time, refuse to use Trados. This was before I had tried TagEditor. The Trados for Word is more a hindrance than a help for me, I prefer a stand-alone program that won't use all my system resources and crash whenever it decides to. (No, Trados TagEditor is fortunately very stable on my system).
I will save all the great suggestions here and try DVX again.
| | | | Herbert Eppel
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:20
German to English
+ ...
absciarretta wrote:
I will see if I can get my hands on a trial version of Professional and test it out.
You can see a feature overview of the different DVX versions here: http://www.atril.com/overview/?InFrame=true
DejaVu is known as the Ferrari among CAT tools, but you really need the Auto features offered by the Pro version in order to move beyond Goggo performance
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Csaba Ban
Hungary
Local time: 15:20
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
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| this and that | Feb 2, 2010 |
My general impression over the years (I've been using DV3 and DVX since 2002) is that translation companies are not familiar with DVX. In most cases they require work to be done with Trados.
Sometimes I tell them that I actually work in DVX but produce just the type of files they need, but in many cases I don't dare to tell them, if I say they are too conservative.
I've never ever met one client that would know that DVX can process .mif files without any hassle - and saves more file... See more My general impression over the years (I've been using DV3 and DVX since 2002) is that translation companies are not familiar with DVX. In most cases they require work to be done with Trados.
Sometimes I tell them that I actually work in DVX but produce just the type of files they need, but in many cases I don't dare to tell them, if I say they are too conservative.
I've never ever met one client that would know that DVX can process .mif files without any hassle - and saves more file processing hassle on their part. They're always surprised when I deliver the first .mif file translated and they can easily use that to produce a translated FrameMaker document.
Bottomline:
Atril should reach out to translation companies and convince them about the great features DVX can offer. Quality assurance, project management, etc. All of them very powerful, but hardly known.
And a very cool feature I would be happy to see:
As I move along the segments in DVX, a shortcut button to the source document to see the context. In many cases it's very important to know whether a particular segment is a title, a bulleted item, a chart label, etc. This could also work with pdf files.
And one more:
The ability to see the meaning of tags, just like in TagEditor. This is especially necesary when a tag contains actual text from an ancillary file, e.g. a GUI item or a chapter title.
Csaba
from snow-covered Budapest ▲ Collapse
| | | | Herbert Eppel
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:20
German to English
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| What makes a good agency? | Feb 2, 2010 |
Csaba Ban wrote:
... translation companies are not familiar with DVX. In most cases they require work to be done with Trados.
In many cases agencies say they require work to be done with Trados, but in my experience they don't really care, as long as they can have bilingual files for updating their TMs.
FWIW, I refuse to let clients dictate the tool I use, and I think I can honestly say that I haven't actually carried out a single translation in Trados (despite the fact that I have a Trados licence) since I started translating more than 15 years ago.
One of the "tips for agencies" listed in my "What makes a good agency" article is "Offer translators the freedom to use their preferred translation memory tool".
If you haven't seen the article yet you can download it from here: http://hetranslations.blogspot.com/2009/11/mdu-articles.html
| | | | | DVX prices in "developing" countries (revisited) | Feb 2, 2010 |
Selcuk Akyuz wrote:
I agree that DVX prices in some certain countries (Central (Eastern?) Europe, Turkey, Latin America, China, etc.) should be lower. Wordfast applies the normal price (EUR 330) only for the following countries:
The Americas: The USA, Mexico, Canada.
Europe: Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, Portugal, Spain, The Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, The United Kingdom.
Asia/Oceania: Australia, Brunei, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea, New Zealand, Singapore, Taiwan.
"Near East": Bahrain, Israel, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, UAE
Translators from other countries pay only EUR 165!
Just FIY.
In some countries (e.g. in Poland), Trados Professional floating is on sales now for approx. 1600-1650 euro (excluding VAT) instead of the official 5000 euro.
Cheers
GG
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