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Capitalized terms = 大写术语?
Thread poster: Crystal Jiang (X)

Crystal Jiang (X)
China
Local time: 10:38
English to Chinese
+ ...
Feb 26, 2010

在一份中英对照的协议中看到如下句子:

Unless otherwise defined herein, all capitalized terms shall have the meanings ascribed in the Agreement.
如无另行定义,文中所有大写术语均具有协议所描述的特定含义。

个人觉得"capitalized terms"仅仅译作“大写术语”不够准确,因为原文中很多大写的术语都译成中文了,义在而形无,这样可能导致误解吧?不知各位前辈和同仁对此有何见解?遇到类似的情况怎么处理比较好呢?

先谢为敬!


 

lbone  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 10:38
English to Chinese
+ ...
首字母大写的术语 Feb 26, 2010

或以大写字母开头的术语。

比如 China 中的 C 是大写的,那 China 就是个 capitalized term。

如果你觉得不能完全描述,可以加简单的、不会引起合同条件或条款增加、删减或变化的补充说明,不过个人意见,一般而言,合同翻译时最好不要随便加任何东西。

如果怕觉得找不到英文,可以在第一次翻译 capitalized terms 时后面加个括号加注原来的英文,这样就没有异义了。

[Edited at 2010-02-26 08:07 GMT]


 

Crystal Jiang (X)
China
Local time: 10:38
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
形式转变之难 Feb 26, 2010

谢谢先~

问题就在这里了,条款中有许多简称为"Company"、"Agreement"的情况,翻译成中文后,就不存在所谓的capitalized terms了,再做说明,几乎有些多余和不知所以然,而这种情况下加注英文也是不太合适的。

本来形式/格式规范是比较好保留的,但连带意义,就比较麻烦了。


 

lbone  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 10:38
English to Chinese
+ ...
文档的格式 Feb 26, 2010

如果需要,我觉得也可以把相关指定术语的中文改加双引号或加黑。

合同翻译中我经常碰到加黑的(还有加下划线的)。

不过如果格式是纯文本,没法加黑,中文就可以用双引号括起。

相关表达的翻译可以用“以引号标注的指定术语”或“以黑体/粗体字显示的指定术语”表示。

要是我大概就会这么翻译。个人意见,仅供参考。


 

jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:38
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Tell your client that there are no such things as capitalized terms Feb 26, 2010

in Chinese and ask him for a solution. He might italicize or underline or boldface the concerned terms. Then it will be easy for you to follow.

 

Jiantao Lu  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 10:38
Member (2009)
English to Chinese
建议 Feb 27, 2010

Crystal Jiang wrote:

在一份中英对照的协议中看到如下句子:

Unless otherwise defined herein, all capitalized terms shall have the meanings ascribed in the Agreement.
如无另行定义,文中所有大写术语均具有协议所描述的特定含义。

个人觉得"capitalized terms"仅仅译作“大写术语”不够准确,因为原文中很多大写的术语都译成中文了,义在而形无,这样可能导致误解吧?不知各位前辈和同仁对此有何见解?遇到类似的情况怎么处理比较好呢?

先谢为敬!


我一般处理为:“...英文中所有大写术语...”


 

nigerose  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 10:38
Chinese to English
+ ...
分词 Feb 27, 2010

This rationale will also be used when the term `comprised` or `comprising` is used in relation to one or more steps in a method or process.

见过类似的句子的中文译文,“comprise”被翻译成“过去分词的包含”,“comprising”被翻译成“现在分词的包含”。哈哈


 

jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:38
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
How did you know it means the first letter is capitalized? Feb 28, 2010

lbone wrote:

或以大写字母开头的术语。

比如 China 中的 C 是大写的,那 China 就是个 capitalized term。

如果你觉得不能完全描述,可以加简单的、不会引起合同条件或条款增加、删减或变化的补充说明,不过个人意见,一般而言,合同翻译时最好不要随便加任何东西。

如果怕觉得找不到英文,可以在第一次翻译 capitalized terms 时后面加个括号加注原来的英文,这样就没有异义了。

[Edited at 2010-02-26 08:07 GMT]


It could well mean the whole sentence is capitalized.


 

jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:38
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
You make efforts to clarify it Feb 28, 2010

Jiantao Lu wrote:

Crystal Jiang wrote:

在一份中英对照的协议中看到如下句子:

Unless otherwise defined herein, all capitalized terms shall have the meanings ascribed in the Agreement.
如无另行定义,文中所有大写术语均具有协议所描述的特定含义。

个人觉得"capitalized terms"仅仅译作“大写术语”不够准确,因为原文中很多大写的术语都译成中文了,义在而形无,这样可能导致误解吧?不知各位前辈和同仁对此有何见解?遇到类似的情况怎么处理比较好呢?

先谢为敬!


我一般处理为:“...英文中所有大写术语...”


but saying 英文中所有大写术语 doesn't solve the practical problem. The reader will not be given the orginal text anyway. Even if the English version is provided to the reader, it is assumed that the latter doesn't read in English.

[Edited at 2010-02-28 05:31 GMT]


 

lbone  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 10:38
English to Chinese
+ ...
中文译文中没什么英文 Feb 28, 2010

jyuan_us wrote:

lbone wrote:

或以大写字母开头的术语。

比如 China 中的 C 是大写的,那 China 就是个 capitalized term。

如果你觉得不能完全描述,可以加简单的、不会引起合同条件或条款增加、删减或变化的补充说明,不过个人意见,一般而言,合同翻译时最好不要随便加任何东西。

如果怕觉得找不到英文,可以在第一次翻译 capitalized terms 时后面加个括号加注原来的英文,这样就没有异义了。

[Edited at 2010-02-26 08:07 GMT]


It could well mean the whole sentence is capitalized.


中文译文中一般不会有什么英文,在中文后面加个括号,再跟这些指定的英文,读者一般一看就明白了。

英文原文中除了与合同相关的 capitalized terms,也可能正巧有(当然也可能没有)一些按规范英语语言本身的要求本来就要首字母大写的专有名词,比如 Internet 或 The People's Republic of China,这类词只是自然要 capitalized,但实际并不是合同中 capitalized terms 意指的那些词。所以英文合同的 capitalized terms 本身就不是一个与实际意指的那些词 100% 严格对应的说法,它这样写,本身就要求读者有常识性的理解和分辨能力。

[Edited at 2010-02-28 13:55 GMT]


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:38
Chinese to English
+ ...
ambiguous Feb 28, 2010

I agree with jyuan; without the legal document being right in front of you, indeed it is impossible to determine whether the whole terms in question are in uppercase or only the initial letters of these terms are.



http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/capitalized

cap·i·tal·ize 
–verb (used with object)
1. to write or print in capital letters or with an initial capital.

...

cap·i·tal·ize (kāp'ĭ-tl-īz')
v. cap·i·tal·ized, cap·i·tal·iz·ing, cap·i·tal·iz·es

v. tr.

7.
a. To write or print in capital letters.
b. To begin a word with a capital letter.



 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:38
Chinese to English
+ ...
补充 Feb 28, 2010

I would tend to think it is the whole words they are referring to, because in English every sentence starts with a capital letter; yet the first word of every sentence is not necessarily one of the special terms "ascribed in the Agreement".


[Edited at 2010-02-28 16:49 GMT]


 

Crystal Jiang (X)
China
Local time: 10:38
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
A brief summary Mar 1, 2010

Thank you all for sharing your ideas.
Below is a brief summary:

Capitalized terms herein may denote:
a) the whole words with all letters in uppercase
b) certain words (at or not at the beginning of a sentence) with the first letter in uppercase
c) the initial words leading a sentence capitalized
d) the whole sentence with words all capitalized

How to deal with:
1) Chinese translation plus English reference - C(E)
2) Add quote m
... See more
Thank you all for sharing your ideas.
Below is a brief summary:

Capitalized terms herein may denote:
a) the whole words with all letters in uppercase
b) certain words (at or not at the beginning of a sentence) with the first letter in uppercase
c) the initial words leading a sentence capitalized
d) the whole sentence with words all capitalized

How to deal with:
1) Chinese translation plus English reference - C(E)
2) Add quote marks or boldface, italicize or underline the terms, and reflect it in the translation of the said sentence
3) Offer both English and Chinese versions to the readers
4) Leave the readers to judge and understand by themselves
5) Ask clients to specify or modify

Personally and currently, I agree with b) & 2), such as the "Company", the "Agreement", the "Agency" used to represent the entire long names of their original. They are common in general but specific in the document.

And more to consider:
Difference concerning form-meaning relation between English and Chinese may lead to some kind of change or even omission in translation. This needs more case by case work.


[Edited at 2010-03-01 03:00 GMT]
Collapse


 

jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:38
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
The capitalized terms Mar 1, 2010

lbone wrote:

jyuan_us wrote:

lbone wrote:

或以大写字母开头的术语。

比如 China 中的 C 是大写的,那 China 就是个 capitalized term。

如果你觉得不能完全描述,可以加简单的、不会引起合同条件或条款增加、删减或变化的补充说明,不过个人意见,一般而言,合同翻译时最好不要随便加任何东西。

如果怕觉得找不到英文,可以在第一次翻译 capitalized terms 时后面加个括号加注原来的英文,这样就没有异义了。

[Edited at 2010-02-26 08:07 GMT]


It could well mean the whole sentence is capitalized.


中文译文中一般不会有什么英文,在中文后面加个括号,再跟这些指定的英文,读者一般一看就明白了。

英文原文中除了与合同相关的 capitalized terms,也可能正巧有(当然也可能没有)一些按规范英语语言本身的要求本来就要首字母大写的专有名词,比如 Internet 或 The People's Republic of China,这类词只是自然要 capitalized,但实际并不是合同中 capitalized terms 意指的那些词。所以英文合同的 capitalized terms 本身就不是一个与实际意指的那些词 100% 严格对应的说法,它这样写,本身就要求读者有常识性的理解和分辨能力。

[Edited at 2010-02-28 13:55 GMT]


You still didn't explain how you got to the conclusion that a capitalized term means "a word that starts with its first letter capitalized". To me, a capitalized term could as well mean that the whole word is written in the upper case. The capitalized terms could also mean that every letter in an entire sentence is written in the upper case.


 

lbone  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 10:38
English to Chinese
+ ...
一般不会这么写 Mar 1, 2010

jyuan_us wrote:

lbone wrote:

jyuan_us wrote:

lbone wrote:

或以大写字母开头的术语。

比如 China 中的 C 是大写的,那 China 就是个 capitalized term。

如果你觉得不能完全描述,可以加简单的、不会引起合同条件或条款增加、删减或变化的补充说明,不过个人意见,一般而言,合同翻译时最好不要随便加任何东西。

如果怕觉得找不到英文,可以在第一次翻译 capitalized terms 时后面加个括号加注原来的英文,这样就没有异义了。

[Edited at 2010-02-26 08:07 GMT]


It could well mean the whole sentence is capitalized.


中文译文中一般不会有什么英文,在中文后面加个括号,再跟这些指定的英文,读者一般一看就明白了。

英文原文中除了与合同相关的 capitalized terms,也可能正巧有(当然也可能没有)一些按规范英语语言本身的要求本来就要首字母大写的专有名词,比如 Internet 或 The People's Republic of China,这类词只是自然要 capitalized,但实际并不是合同中 capitalized terms 意指的那些词。所以英文合同的 capitalized terms 本身就不是一个与实际意指的那些词 100% 严格对应的说法,它这样写,本身就要求读者有常识性的理解和分辨能力。

[Edited at 2010-02-28 13:55 GMT]


You still didn't explain how you got to the conclusion that a capitalized term means "a word that starts with its first letter capitalized". To me, a capitalized term could as well mean that the whole word is written in the upper case. The capitalized terms could also mean that every letter in an entire sentence is written in the upper case.


全大写大多写为uppercase。至于句子,显然不是terms。 Crystal Jiang看见原文了,我想她提问题时就已经看明白是句子还是术语。

当然Capitalized是可以表示全大写。我想Crystal Jiang主要希望收集一些建议,原文她都能看见。如果这点有错,她应该立马能看出来。

在KudoZ问答中选择最佳答案时,ProZ网站的表述并非是选择“正确”或“最正确”的答案,而是选择“帮助最大的”答案。提问者最需要的是帮助,而非简单的“正确答案”,因为别人对项目的了解,正常情况下都不会比直接做项目的人了解得更清楚,能拿出“完全正确”的答案的几率并不会很大。有足够的帮助就好。当然,KudoZ也有一定弊端,因为帮助不是最大的答案,往往也是有帮助的。

另外,汉语中的“大写”,给人的第一印象就是全大写,本身并不包括该词字首大写的意思,如果是字首大写而非全大写,一般需要另行指出。大写对应的英文一般是uppercase。写为Capitalized并不准确。这逻辑看起来是反过来了。不过通过反向翻译进行校验本身也是判断翻译用语选择是否正确的重要方式之一。

[Edited at 2010-03-01 17:08 GMT]


 
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