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Capitalized terms = 大写术语?
Thread poster: Crystal Jiang (X)

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:03
Chinese to English
+ ...
"偷懒" 的法律文件 :D Mar 1, 2010

>>> Unless otherwise defined herein, all capitalized terms shall have the meanings ascribed in the Agreement.

依我看这句话作为法律文件本身就不够严谨, 因为句子打头的字词并不一定含有文件所指的特殊定义, 比如句子本身开头的 "Unless".

比较常见的法律文件是不胜其烦地啰嗦的, 以便明确表达 比如下面一例 ...



http://www.liverpoolairport.com/about-us/general-conditions-of-contract.html

General Conditions of Contract

1. In these Conditions, unless the context otherwise requires,

(a) "Group" means PEEL HOLDINGS GROUP including any company in the same group (as defined in Section 53 of the Companies Act, 1989) as PEEL HOLDINGS (GUERNSEY) LTD;
(b) "the Order" means the order (and any special conditions attached thereto or referred to therein) to which these Conditions relate;
(c) "Company" means the person to whom the Order is addressed;
(d) "Goods" means the equipment, goods, materials or other articles (if any) described or otherwise identified in the Order; and
(e) "Services" means the work (if any) described or otherwise identified in the Order.



 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:03
Chinese to English
+ ...
the context of legal documents Mar 1, 2010

Here's a legal document that does contain such a statement. The document goes to extreme lengths to define numerous terms, which also are referred to aggregately as "capitalized terms". In this case, there is no confusion as to which of the capitalized terms should "have the meanings ascribed in the Agreement". In other words, if an otherwise capitalized word has not been specially treated or defined in some manner in the Agreement, then it doesn't belong in this group. Therefore the senten... See more
Here's a legal document that does contain such a statement. The document goes to extreme lengths to define numerous terms, which also are referred to aggregately as "capitalized terms". In this case, there is no confusion as to which of the capitalized terms should "have the meanings ascribed in the Agreement". In other words, if an otherwise capitalized word has not been specially treated or defined in some manner in the Agreement, then it doesn't belong in this group. Therefore the sentence is perfectly unambiguous and definite within the context.

http://www.techagreements.com/agreement-preview.aspx?num=530317&title=Fairfield%20Communities%20-%20Title%20Clearing%20Agreement

Also keep in mind, this sentence is stated in an "Amendment" to an original "Agreement". I would think the original Agreement would have defined the said "capitalized terms" ad nauseam. It should be self-evident as to which terms the statement refers to with all the original English documents available.

Particularly, for the above example, the statement refers to "ALL" the English terms/words with leading capitalized letters, excluding words capitalized with initial letters solely for the purpose of opening a sentence. The latter in turn may or may not fall into the intended category, depending on whether a definition of the term(s) was spelled out in the original Agreement.

In my opinion, it would be difficult, not to mention misleading, to express all the implicit meaning associated with the term "capitalized terms" used in this context with a simple Chinese phrase such as "大写术语", or even with a more elaborately-worded sentence, unless one resorts to footnotes. Yes, one solution would be to rely on style formatting such as the use of boldface type, italic fonts, quotation marks, or underscoring. In which case the responsibility of identifying those terms would fall on the translator handling the translation - IMO not an enviable position to put oneself into from a legal standpoint.

On the other hand, there is always the original English document(s) that prevails if something does go wrong and ends up in litigation, although I say chances of that happening should be extremely slim.


[Edited at 2010-03-01 23:05 GMT]
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nigerose  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 00:03
Chinese to English
+ ...
术语与词语 Mar 2, 2010

wherestip wrote:

>>> Unless otherwise defined herein, all capitalized terms shall have the meanings ascribed in the Agreement.

依我看这句话作为法律文件本身就不够严谨, 因为句子打头的字词并不一定含有文件所指的特殊定义, 比如句子本身开头的 "Unless".





Unless是词语,不是术语(terms)。


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:03
Chinese to English
+ ...
perhaps Mar 2, 2010

nigerose wrote:

wherestip wrote:

>>> Unless otherwise defined herein, all capitalized terms shall have the meanings ascribed in the Agreement.

依我看这句话作为法律文件本身就不够严谨, 因为句子打头的字词并不一定含有文件所指的特殊定义, 比如句子本身开头的 "Unless".




Unless是词语,不是术语(terms)。


Well, perhaps that's true in this case.

A "non-technical term" is one usage where "term" has the same meaning as a "word". So I wasn't differentiating between the two when I made my comments.


 

nigerose  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 00:03
Chinese to English
+ ...
term Mar 2, 2010

wherestip wrote:

nigerose wrote:

wherestip wrote:

>>> Unless otherwise defined herein, all capitalized terms shall have the meanings ascribed in the Agreement.

依我看这句话作为法律文件本身就不够严谨, 因为句子打头的字词并不一定含有文件所指的特殊定义, 比如句子本身开头的 "Unless".




Unless是词语,不是术语(terms)。


Well, perhaps that's true in this case.


A "non-technical term" is one usage where "term" has the same meaning as a "word". So I wasn't differentiating between the two when I made my comments.



这里term的意思是: (金山词霸)
A word or group of words having a particular meaning:
专用名词一个或一组具有特殊意义的词:
had to explain the term gridlock.
必须解释gridlock(交通全面大堵塞)这个词

不一定是technical term
但它与一般的词语如unless还是不同的。


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:03
Chinese to English
+ ...
term Mar 2, 2010

nigerose wrote:

wherestip wrote:

nigerose wrote:

wherestip wrote:

>>> Unless otherwise defined herein, all capitalized terms shall have the meanings ascribed in the Agreement.

依我看这句话作为法律文件本身就不够严谨, 因为句子打头的字词并不一定含有文件所指的特殊定义, 比如句子本身开头的 "Unless".




Unless是词语,不是术语(terms)。


Well, perhaps that's true in this case.


A "non-technical term" is one usage where "term" has the same meaning as a "word". So I wasn't differentiating between the two when I made my comments.



这里term的意思是: (金山词霸)
A word or group of words having a particular meaning:
专用名词一个或一组具有特殊意义的词:
had to explain the term gridlock.
必须解释gridlock(交通全面大堵塞)这个词

不一定是technical term
但它与一般的词语如unless还是不同的。


Yes, I agree. There is a difference between "term" and "word" in this context. "Unless" typically is not considered a "term" in this kind of legal documentation; so that is my mistake.

The two terms "term" and "word" are frequently synonymous in everyday use though. It kind of caused me to overlook the difference in this situation. See the definition below ...


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/term

term   /tɜrm/ Show Spelled[turm]
–noun

2.any word or group of words considered as a member of a construction or utterance.





[Edited at 2010-03-02 04:38 GMT]


 

nigerose  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 00:03
Chinese to English
+ ...
term Mar 2, 2010

wherestip wrote:

Yes, I agree. There is a difference between "term" and "word" in this context. "Unless" typically is not considered a "term" in this kind of legal documentation; so that is my mistake.

The two terms "term" and "word" are frequently synonymous in everyday use though. It kind of caused me to overlook the difference in this situation. See the definition below ...


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/term

term   /tɜrm/ Show Spelled[turm]
–noun

2.any word or group of words considered as a member of a construction or utterance.





[Edited at 2010-03-02 04:38 GMT]



“term”在金山词霸中《美国传统辞典》(双解)有两个相似但实际上不相同的词义:

1.
A word or group of words having a particular meaning:
专用名词一个或一组具有特殊意义的词:
had to explain the term gridlock.
必须解释gridlock(交通全面大堵塞)这个词

2.
Language of a certain kind; chosen words:
词语某种语言;选用的词:
spoke in rather vague terms; praised him in glowing terms.
用相当隐晦的词讲述;用炫丽的词语称赞他

可以分别对应于金山词霸中的《现代英汉综合大词典》释义:
(特定意义的)专门名词术语; 措辞; 说法

楼主讨论的其实就是“(特定意义的)专门名词术语”

普通词语经定义(defined),也能变成term,这是局部性或者临时性的术语。楼主讨论的对象大概就属于这种情况。

而一些术语尤其是科学术语,比如胰岛素、脱氧核糖核酸,是具有严格定义的全世界通用的术语,在文章中不用capitalized,但它们还是terms,是一种特殊的words。

[修改时间: 2010-03-02 04:56 GMT]


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:03
Chinese to English
+ ...
mistake Mar 2, 2010

nigerose wrote:

wherestip wrote:

Yes, I agree. There is a difference between "term" and "word" in this context. "Unless" typically is not considered a "term" in this kind of legal documentation; so that is my mistake.

The two terms "term" and "word" are frequently synonymous in everyday use though. It kind of caused me to overlook the difference in this situation. See the definition below ...


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/term

term   /tɜrm/ Show Spelled[turm]
–noun

2.any word or group of words considered as a member of a construction or utterance.





[Edited at 2010-03-02 04:38 GMT]



“term”在金山词霸中《美国传统辞典》(双解)有两个相似但实际上不相同的词义:

1.
A word or group of words having a particular meaning:
专用名词一个或一组具有特殊意义的词:
had to explain the term gridlock.
必须解释gridlock(交通全面大堵塞)这个词

2.
Language of a certain kind; chosen words:
词语某种语言;选用的词:
spoke in rather vague terms; praised him in glowing terms.
用相当隐晦的词讲述;用炫丽的词语称赞他

可以分别对应于金山词霸中的《现代英汉综合大词典》释义:
(特定意义的)专门名词术语; 措辞; 说法

楼主讨论的其实就是“(特定意义的)专门名词术语”

普通词语经定义(defined),也能变成term,这是局部性或者临时性的术语。楼主讨论的对象大概就属于这种情况。

而一些术语尤其是科学术语,比如胰岛素、脱氧核糖核酸,是具有严格定义的全世界通用的术语,在文章中不用capitalized,但它们还是terms,是一种特殊的words。

[修改时间: 2010-03-02 04:56 GMT]


nigerose,

I agreed with you and admitted to my mistake. I also gave you the reason I mistakenly neglected the difference between "term" and "word" in this context. Apparently I need to go one step further ...

Thank you for pointing out my mistake, and my apologies to those following this thread of discussion.



[Edited at 2010-03-02 05:55 GMT]


 

nigerose  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 00:03
Chinese to English
+ ...
discussion Mar 2, 2010

Wherestip:

You are probably most active here.
If this is a mistake, then it is only because "a good marksman may miss".


 

Crystal Jiang (X)
China
Local time: 00:03
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Formatting is only an option Mar 2, 2010

wherestip wrote:

Here's a legal document that does contain such a statement. The document goes to extreme lengths to define numerous terms, which also are referred to aggregately as "capitalized terms". In this case, there is no confusion as to which of the capitalized terms should "have the meanings ascribed in the Agreement". In other words, if an otherwise capitalized word has not been specially treated or defined in some manner in the Agreement, then it doesn't belong in this group. Therefore the sentence is perfectly unambiguous and definite within the context.

http://www.techagreements.com/agreement-preview.aspx?num=530317&title=Fairfield%20Communities%20-%20Title%20Clearing%20Agreement

Also keep in mind, this sentence is stated in an "Amendment" to an original "Agreement". I would think the original Agreement would have defined the said "capitalized terms" ad nauseam. It should be self-evident as to which terms the statement refers to with all the original English documents available.

Particularly, for the above example, the statement refers to "ALL" the English terms/words with leading capitalized letters, excluding words capitalized with initial letters solely for the purpose of opening a sentence. The latter in turn may or may not fall into the intended category, depending on whether a definition of the term(s) was spelled out in the original Agreement.

In my opinion, it would be difficult, not to mention misleading, to express all the implicit meaning associated with the term "capitalized terms" used in this context with a simple Chinese phrase such as "大写术语", or even with a more elaborately-worded sentence, unless one resorts to footnotes. Yes, one solution would be to rely on style formatting such as the use of boldface type, italic fonts, quotation marks, or underscoring. In which case the responsibility of identifying those terms would fall on the translator handling the translation - IMO not an enviable position to put oneself into from a legal standpoint.

On the other hand, there is always the original English document(s) that prevails if something does go wrong and ends up in litigation, although I say chances of that happening should be extremely slim.


[Edited at 2010-03-01 23:05 GMT]


Thank you very much for the research and analysis.

In fact, it is in an Amendment to an Agreement, and capitalized terms apparently refer to those with their initial letter in uppercase and functioning as proper nouns (otherwise being general).

I raised this topic for doubt in how to translate the phrase "capitalized terms". It will be strange to translate it as "大写术语" because there will be no capitalized Chinese in the target document. Shall we transform it into "带下划线的术语" if those real capitalized terms in English are translated into Chinese and are underscored.

What kind of solution can clarify the denotion of "capitalized terms" without changing any format?
How to justify translation of the phrase "capitalized terms" itself if formatting is changed?
To what extent this reflects difference between English and Chinese languages in format-meaning relation, or reflects difference between English and Chinese legal documents?


 

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:03
Chinese to English
+ ...
workaround Mar 2, 2010

Crystal Jiang wrote:

I raised this topic for doubt in how to translate the phrase "capitalized terms". It will be strange to translate it as "大写术语" because there will be no capitalized Chinese in the target document. Shall we transform it into "带下划线的术语" if those real capitalized terms in English are translated into Chinese and are underscored.

What kind of solution can clarify the denotion of "capitalized terms" without changing any format?
How to justify translation of the phrase "capitalized terms" itself if formatting is changed?
To what extent this reflects difference between English and Chinese languages in format-meaning relation, or reflects difference between English and Chinese legal documents?


Crystal,

If you're careful in picking out which terms to underscore, there really shouldn't be any legal consequences to speak of. It's just a method to identify terms that have special meanings in the Agreement anyway, similar to capitalizing a term in the English language.

Another way I can think of is to translate the term "captialized term" as is, preferably more clearly than just "大写术语", "英文首写字母为大写的专门术语" perhaps? Other posters had also made some good suggestions previously along these lines. If it were me, I'd go a step further and put the terms in parentheses following the Chinese, for example, 公司 (the Company), 协定(the Agreement), etc..


 

Crystal Jiang (X)
China
Local time: 00:03
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Cheers Mar 3, 2010

wherestip wrote:

Crystal,

If you're careful in picking out which terms to underscore, there really shouldn't be any legal consequences to speak of. It's just a method to identify terms that have special meanings in the Agreement anyway, similar to capitalizing a term in the English language.

Another way I can think of is to translate the term "captialized term" as is, preferably more clearly than just "大写术语", "英文首写字母为大写的专门术语" perhaps? Other posters had also made some good suggestions previously along these lines. If it were me, I'd go a step further and put the terms in parentheses following the Chinese, for example, 公司 (the Company), 协定(the Agreement), etc..


wherestip , thank you very much.

I've got a lot of suggestions here, which will help me to handle it when I come across the phrase next time.

Cheers!


 

pkchan  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:03
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
+ ...
另一有關大寫的問題 Mar 3, 2010

“Creating SMART Goals”,這個 SAMART 字又怎樣處理為高明呢,想聽聽同仁的意見。SMART = Specific,
Measurable,Attainable,Realistic,Timely 。





[修改时间: 2010-03-03 19:46 GMT]


 

Crystal Jiang (X)
China
Local time: 00:03
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
原汁原味 Mar 4, 2010

pkchan wrote:

“Creating SMART Goals”,這個 SAMART 字又怎樣處理為高明呢,想聽聽同仁的意見。SMART = Specific,
Measurable,Attainable,Realistic,Timely 。





[修改时间: 2010-03-03 19:46 GMT]


保留“SMART目标”,然后加注释吧。

在国内,不论是企业培训、内部交流还是引用推荐,都直接称“SMART原则”,随后会对S/M/A/R/T各个字母分别代表的Specific,Measurable,Attainable,Realistic/Relevant,Timely/Time-based 做出解释。

做Presentation也好,写书、写文章也好,必要的解释(阐释、脚注)是必不可少的。在平时交流中,大家也是直呼“SMART原则”,心照不宣o(∩_∩)o


 
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