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Proz与其它论坛的不同 Thread poster: dd dd
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| 你看，还有一个比我还老憨的， | Oct 21, 2008 |
你没看到老姐姐折腾了这么十来年，才把猴子们赶到学校去。 我这才俩，要一群，那还不如去幼儿园工作算了。
Dallas Cao wrote:
有机会我要移民，生一群猴子。吃它的，喝它的，把帝国主义吃到解放前。
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ysun 
United States
Local time: 18:43
English to Chinese
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| 害群之马少一些，论坛就会平静些 | Oct 22, 2008 |
这就是为什么必须把害群之马赶走的道理。依我看，几年来论坛管理得蛮公正。不过，再公正也总会有个别人说不公正。这不足为怪。就让他们去说好了。有的人对于“那些有意的挑衅和人身攻击”似乎视而不见，甚至表示支持，可管理员一出面，就马上把矛头指向管理员，难道这就是公正吗？
chance wrote: 至于那些有意的挑衅和人身攻击吵架，除了需要加强自身的修养外，还需要提倡论坛的好风气和论坛管理的公正。 Dallas Cao wrote:
proz.com与其他论坛的最大不同是：
在平静的表面隐藏着各式各样的争斗和仇恨，发生在不同背景，位于不同地理位置，不同信仰（不是宗教信仰），不同论坛地位（新与新，新与老，老与老，官与民，官与官）的人之间。
我原以为既然大家英文水平如此如此好，对多元化和宽容等价值观会有更深的理解，我发现我完全错了。不信看看，有超过10页以上跟帖的高楼贴，几乎没有一个不是因吵架而盖成的。
[Edited at 2008-10-21 06:02] [Edited at 2008-10-21 13:08]
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QUOI
Chinese to English
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I find your post highly offensive to me personally as it clearly refers to a previous incident in another thread and by referring to “someone who jumped out to accuse the moderator of being unfair”, you are clearly referring to persons that include me.
If you are not, then I challenge you to name names so that I can be clear you are not referring to me.
What I did in the other thread is on public record. If that offends you, you have the right to lodge support tic... See more I find your post highly offensive to me personally as it clearly refers to a previous incident in another thread and by referring to “someone who jumped out to accuse the moderator of being unfair”, you are clearly referring to persons that include me.
If you are not, then I challenge you to name names so that I can be clear you are not referring to me.
What I did in the other thread is on public record. If that offends you, you have the right to lodge support tickets. I also reserve my rights to take this matter further.
It is high time we all put a stop to this kind of cyber-bullying.
ysun wrote:
这就是为什么必须把害群之马赶走的道理。依我看，几年来论坛管理得蛮公正。不过，再公正也总会有个别人说不公正。这不足为怪。就让他们去说好了。有的人对于“那些有意的挑衅和人身攻击”似乎视而不见，甚至表示支持，可管理员一出面，就马上把矛头指向管理员，难道这就是公正吗？
[Edited at 2008-10-22 21:35] ▲ Collapse
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Kevin Yang
Local time: 16:43
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
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| Mistranslation of Sun's words. | Oct 22, 2008 |
... at large wrote: I find your post highly offensive to me personally as it clearly refers to a previous incident in another thread and by referring to “someone who jumped out to accuse the moderator of being unfair”, you are clearly referring to persons that include me. If you are not, then I challenge you to name names so that I can be clear you are not referring to me. What I did in the other thread is on public record. If that offends you, you have the right to lodge support tickets. I also reserve my rights to take this matter further. It is high time we all put a stop to this kind of cyber-bullying. ysun wrote:
这就是为什么必须把害群之马赶走的道理。依我看，几年来论坛管理得蛮公正。不过，再公正也总会有个别人说不公正。这不足为怪。就让他们去说好了。有的人对于“那些有意的挑衅和人身攻击”似乎视而不见，甚至表示支持，可管理员一出面，就马上把矛头指向管理员，难道这就是公正吗？
... at large,
You mistranslated Sun's words. Please read his entire passage again carefully. His actual sentence was "可管理员一出面，就马上把矛头指向管理员，难道这就是公正吗？" You had your fair chance to talk, and Sun simply stated his observation and questioned the double standards of fairness from his perspective. I would not go that far as you stated in your message, you do not need to be so sensitive, let alone the fact that you have been believing everything you wrote was correct and fair.
Kevin
[修改时间: 2008-10-23 01:16]
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dd dd
Local time: 07:43
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER |
ysun
United States
Local time: 18:43
English to Chinese
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... at large wrote: Dear ysun I find your post highly offensive to me personally as it clearly refers to a previous incident in another thread and by referring to “someone who jumped out to accuse the moderator of being unfair”, you are clearly referring to persons that include me. If you are not, then I challenge you to name names so that I can be clear you are not referring to me. What I did in the other thread is on public record. If that offends you, you have the right to lodge support tickets. I also reserve my rights to take this matter further. It is high time we all put a stop to this kind of cyber-bullying. ysun wrote:
这就是为什么必须把害群之马赶走的道理。依我看，几年来论坛管理得蛮公正。不过，再公正也总会有个别人说不公正。这不足为怪。就让他们去说好了。有的人对于“那些有意的挑衅和人身攻击”似乎视而不见，甚至表示支持，可管理员一出面，就马上把矛头指向管理员，难道这就是公正吗？
[Edited at 2008-10-22 21:35]
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 19:43
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Kudoz提问者确实愿意把分数给谁就给谁 | Oct 23, 2008 |
这种情况十分常见。而且Kudoz规则里好像有一条，就是禁止答题者挑战提问者的选择(Correct me if I'm wrong)，因此有时提问者所选择并输入词库的的答案并非是正确的，有时甚至是很荒谬的。
现状是，因为提问者不受控制，所以选择答案时可以不必太认真，也有时提问者缺乏判断能力，不管你说得多么有道理，他/她就是不买你的账。
如果您想回答问题，只能接受这种现实。
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dd dd
Local time: 07:43
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER
我也别再把自己弄得象成绩够了却没被录取的高考考生或公务员一样。
要么接受规则或不合理或荒谬的现实，要么到别处玩去。
也许是我过于敏感，总容易看到事物的不好的一面或制度的漏洞。
Proz的制度现在存在这样一个漏洞，那就是如果两个人结成一个team，一个人问一些简单至极的问题，另一个来回答，这样另一个人很快能积攒很多的点。这些点在Proz就是货币啊，不是交会员费都可以用么。当然也不太会有人会搞这么无聊的把戏吧。
不过最后还是说一句，我上面提到的提问人最后选用的是我的答案，但却把分给了另一个人。
[Edited at 2008-10-23 07:37]
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ysun wrote:
这就是为什么必须把害群之马赶走的道理。依我看，几年来论坛管理得蛮公正。不过，再公正也总会有个别人说不公正。这不足为怪。就让他们去说好了。有的人对于“那些有意的挑衅和人身攻击”似乎视而不见，甚至表示支持，可管理员一出面，就马上把矛头指向管理员，难道这就是公正吗？
A horse! I need a horse! My kingdom for a horse!
马在哪呢？呵呵。如kevin所说，从文法上看，ysun的“害群之马”并非特指某人，仅是为论坛管理提了一个建议。但我认为把某马赶走这种做法并非明智之举。
首先，我想问下到底谁有权力把马“赶走”呢？网站是公共领域，我想有将某马“赶走”权力的不会是版主，甚至也不是网站的创始人。
其次，判断某马为“害群之马”的标准在哪里？又由谁来制定？
再次，标准出来之后，又由谁来判断某马是害群之马？将某马“赶走”似乎是一个非常严重的处分，确定谁是“害群之马”则应由全论坛活跃人员全票通过，或者由可广泛代表所有活跃人员的一个代表团全数通过才合理。
[Edited at 2008-10-23 08:59]
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dd dd
Local time: 07:43
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER |
Denyce Seow
Singapore
Local time: 07:43
Member (2004)
Chinese to English
| Kudoz system | Oct 23, 2008 |
Laura Liu wrote:
Proz的制度现在存在这样一个漏洞，那就是如果两个人结成一个team，一个人问一些简单至极的问题，另一个来回答，这样另一个人很快能积攒很多的点。这些点在Proz就是货币啊，不是交会员费都可以用么。当然也不太会有人会搞这么无聊的把戏吧。
Proz has a fraud squad that takes care of this. Moderators are notified when the asker and answer or answerer and peer reviewer of a question share the same IP address. Of course, this does not necessarily mean there is foul play. However the fraud squad will investigate and take relevant actions. Let's take a look at another scenario: two friends living in different cities help each another grab Kudoz by answering each other's questions and giving each other points. In this situation we will have different IPs. However if someone raises this situation to a moderator or a moderator suspects foul play, the fraud squad can be sent in anytime.
I have to admit that there are many loopholes in the Kudoz system. It is not a perfect system. We will just have to act based on integrity and honesty. You may not get caught for playing foul or you may have your ways of getting around the system, but at the end of the day what you really earn is a bad reputation. Is that worth it simply for Kudoz points?
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Laura Liu wrote:
我也别再把自己弄得象成绩够了却没被录取的高考考生或公务员一样。
要么接受规则或不合理或荒谬的现实，要么到别处玩去。
也许是我过于敏感，总容易看到事物的不好的一面或制度的漏洞。
Proz的制度现在存在这样一个漏洞，那就是如果两个人结成一个team，一个人问一些简单至极的问题，另一个来回答，这样另一个人很快能积攒很多的点。这些点在Proz就是货币啊，不是交会员费都可以用么。当然也不太会有人会搞这么无聊的把戏吧。
不过最后还是说一句，我上面提到的提问人最后选用的是我的答案，但却把分给了另一个人。
[Edited at 2008-10-23 07:37]
Laura的问题很好，Kudoz肯定有改进的余地，但现在的规则也谈不上荒谬。在在制定和实现了（需要网站程序员的努力）新的规则之前，我们就只能尊重并接受提问者的权力。
提问者不是神仙，肯定也有判断失误的时候，甚至是因为某种私心或阴谋而故意不给提供正确答案的人分的时候，但如果你回答的问题足够多，你会发现，总得来讲，结果还是公正的。
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Laura Liu wrote: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/2882477?bs=1#marker_submit 这个有关"民事裁定书"的问题出来后， 另一位网友在5分钟后给出civil ruling paper的答案； 我在10分钟后给出civil ruling的答案； 25分钟之后那位网友在解释中说明作为标题civil ruling更合适； 提问人两天之后将civil ruling paper选为正确答案，并将4分Browniz 分数给了另一位网友； 在我将google结果贴出来后，提问人将答案改为civil ruling，但4分Browniz 分仍送给另一位网友。 也许是我太过于强求公正，但这个结果是不是也太过于荒谬了些？
Laura，原谅我直言，我并不觉得提问者的选择有多荒谬。
提问者当看到多个自己认为都正确的答案时，一般都倾向于选择先回答问题的人。我没去研究civil ruling paper和civil ruling区别有多大，得分的回答者也在自己的答案下注解了civil ruling 做题目的正确性，（即使是这个注解是在看到你的答案之后写的），对于提问者，看到了第一个回答者似乎并不是谬以千里的答案以及注解中的更正，将分数给予他（她）也并不奇怪。
而且在同一个问题的贴子里你同时还提到了Kudoz做假的问题，你虽不是指的提问者和回答者，在同一个问题中说两件事，总会让人将这两件事联系起来。提问者和获得分数的回答者如果心眼小，就有可能认为你是在怀疑他们做假。当你认为提问者没有选择了你的答案而感到不公时，你会不会体谅提问者和得分的第一个回答者会因自己可能被你怀疑做假而觉得委曲呢？他们如果较真回贴，你们就又可能吵起来。中国人吵架很多都是这么开始的。
[Edited at 2008-10-23 08:43]
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| 看见你的头像，我就觉得心痒痒得不行 | Oct 23, 2008 |
Joyce Curran wrote: 你没看到老姐姐折腾了这么十来年，才把猴子们赶到学校去。 我这才俩，要一群，那还不如去幼儿园工作算了。 Dallas Cao wrote:
有机会我要移民，生一群猴子。吃它的，喝它的，把帝国主义吃到解放前。
看到头像，我似乎都听到了您家猴子的笑声，怎么能那么可爱！！！
[Edited at 2008-10-23 08:52]
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