Trados is outdated.. Thread poster: Brandis (X)
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Brandis (X)
Local time: 02:41
English to German
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I am getting sick of all the involved politics I am now going for Déjà Vu if not Transit. Basically I do not lack any CAT tool, but when there is too much bet on Trados the product becomes vulnerable. Today I have recd. an enquiry almost 800k to be finished in Trados and we give you a PO( Hell outsourcer, I can´t eat your PO, but a retainer is good).Generating a .tmx compliant TM is also not a problem for me, i could do that without any CAT tool. Brandis
| | | | Steven Capsuto 
United States
Local time: 20:41
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
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| Don't see the connection | Mar 4, 2008 |
I don't see what any of that has to do with Trados being "outdated" or "vulnerable." Outdated in what way and vulnerable to what?
| | | | iLen
China
Local time: 08:41
English to Chinese
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| Heartsome CAT tool | May 23, 2008 |
Try Heartsome CAT tool (http://www.heartsome.net/EN/downloads.html), it comes with a utility to clear problems in TMX files generated by other tools. It's cross platform, and can also generate "Trados" unclean RTF file if it's necessary
| | | | | Outdated and vulnerable... | May 26, 2008 |
Steven Capsuto wrote:
I don't see what any of that has to do with Trados being "outdated" or "vulnerable." Outdated in what way
E.g. see the DVX idea to convert the document in a relational data base you can filter/sort as you like.
In TagEditor, you can't even switch of the display of the 100% matches.
I don't say SDLT is a bad tool but a lot of his basic ideas are simply outdated.
and vulnerable to what?
E.g. if you install DVX, Transit, Across, MemoQ, Swordfish, whatever, you find quirks as you work.
At least, they install correctly.
E.g. take a look in the DVX/Transit technical support forums, no installation related postings, it works out of the box
With SDL Trados, you may find critical bugs before you start to work because the SDL programmers don't manage the technologies they use (e.g. the Java stuff handling in Trados/MT is simply ridiculous), so you get often a corrupt installation if you don't install SDLT on a fresh PC.
Just see SDL Trados technical forums at Proz...
Cheers
GG
[Edited at 2008-05-26 08:36]
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Jerzy Czopik
Germany
Local time: 02:41
Member (2003)
Polish to German
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| Compare the number of users of all CAT tools here | May 26, 2008 |
and you will see why so many posts do regard Trados.
And please also remember, that - and this regads all Internet fora I know - people tend to post mostly when they have problems and do not report anything, when things are working properly.
Would one build his/her opinion on the basis of Internet fora, you should never buy a BMW or Mercedes cars, as the Internet is full of users reporting problems with those. If you look for users reporting problems with a Lexus, you will find no on... See more and you will see why so many posts do regard Trados.
And please also remember, that - and this regads all Internet fora I know - people tend to post mostly when they have problems and do not report anything, when things are working properly.
Would one build his/her opinion on the basis of Internet fora, you should never buy a BMW or Mercedes cars, as the Internet is full of users reporting problems with those. If you look for users reporting problems with a Lexus, you will find no one (or nearly no one) - does this mean Lexus does not have any problems?
Posting such generalizations does really help, indeed ...
[Edited at 2008-05-26 08:47] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Brandis (X)
Local time: 02:41
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER | There are alternatives.. | May 26, 2008 |
Steven Capsuto wrote:
I don't see what any of that has to do with Trados being "outdated" or "vulnerable." Outdated in what way and vulnerable to what? Like Déja Vu or Transit. All these tools cost lots of money and the market does not pay enough to depreciate these. So why any CAT tools? A healthy minded translator could give at any time much better quality finishing without trados or any other CAT tools. While believing that CAT tools are good we all have invested lots of time in developing TMs but, the disadvantage is that the outsourcer does not understand these workings and does not wish to pay. If yours are paying we have nothing to discuss, but mostly they do not. That is why I am opting out. Brandis
| | | | | There are a few points about Trados | May 26, 2008 |
I do not think it is outdated. It is simply not properly looked-after.
(1) After working in other tools, I feel like crippled in TagEditor - not enough options to make your work easier.
(2) SDL Trados programmers seem to focus on "bells and whistles" (perhaps these do improve sales of the software, after all?) but important painful problems nearly anybody who has ever worked with the tool knows about do not seem to be efficiently addressed.
(3) I have given... See more I do not think it is outdated. It is simply not properly looked-after.
(1) After working in other tools, I feel like crippled in TagEditor - not enough options to make your work easier.
(2) SDL Trados programmers seem to focus on "bells and whistles" (perhaps these do improve sales of the software, after all?) but important painful problems nearly anybody who has ever worked with the tool knows about do not seem to be efficiently addressed.
(3) I have given up on reasonable response from Trados to customers' feedback long ago, so if this feature has improved, I apologise: but when I was still trying to get there, the response was mostly arrogant, apparently lacking in qualifications, and almost never really helpful. All solutions had to be looked up on fora or painfully found by trial-and-error, achieved with the aid of your own programming effort, etc.
All the same, I do own SDL Trados and upgrade along the line, because it is necessary - if you want work from agencies.
Antonin ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Statistically, a human has one tit and one testicle... | May 26, 2008 |
Jerzy Czopik wrote:
Compare the number of users of all CAT tools here and you will see why so many posts do regard Trados.
You can use the statistics as you like.
Of course, the total number of the Trados related post is due to a the number of the Trados users, I agree, but if you take a closer look on the structure of the subjects, it’s getting interesting.
E.g., for almost 200 posts in the DVX support group on Proz, you have 2 posts related directly to the installation problems, i.e. approx 1%.
http://www.proz.com/forum/déjà_vu_support/73290-unable_to_start_dvx_on_new_laptop_os:_windows_vista.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/déjà_vu_support/89573-run_time_errors_after_installing_dvx_on_a_new_computer_windows_xp.html
If you scan the last 100 posts in the SDL Trados support group, you have at least 6 posts, let’s say 5%.
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/101053-cant_open_tageditor_in_sdlx_trados_2007_sp2.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/104002-sdl_trados_2007_applications_cant_be_opened_after_executing_upgrade_to_sdltrados2007_fl_sp2.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/91456-multiterm_and_word:_error_when_selecting_termbase.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/104713-multiterm_error:_multiterm_is_unable_to_create_the_termbase.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/104281-sdl_doesnt_want_me_to_report_problems_unless_i_pay.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/97259-sdl_multiterm_convert_2007_unhandled_exception.html
Maybe I missed something in both fora,
Of course, the review is not statistically representative but you see the difference…
BTW.
When I compare TW_users and dejavu-l on yahoogroups.com, I see the installation related issues are more frequent for Trados.
And please also remember, that - and this regads all Internet fora I know - people tend to post mostly when they have problems and do not report anything, when things are working properly.
Maybe I’m wrong but I suppose the DVX and Trados users don’t differ so much in their comportments.
I.e., as I see, DVX install seem to work “more properly”.
Would one build his/her opinion on the basis of Internet fora, you should never buy a BMW or Mercedes cars, as the Internet is full of users reporting problems with those. If you look for users reporting problems with a Lexus, you will find no one (or nearly no one) - does this mean Lexus does not have any problems?
The quantitative statistics may have little correlation with the quality.
It may be more factors like price, aggressive marketing, then a quasi monopoly on the market.
E.g. In 1995, OS/2 was better than Windows but MS finally won.
And Windows still haven't some OS/2 GUI functions (e.g, in OS/2, if you change the file location, the shortcut follows the new file location, try to do the same in Windows... after 12 years...).
The difference between MS and SDL is MS is faster to fix their critical/basic bugs.
E.g.
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/105434-does_not_conform_to_the_target_termbase_definition.html
This stupid bug exists from eternity.
It should take few hours to fix it and assure a correct mapping.
And nothing changes.
Instead, we have new functions SDL didn't tested extensively, e.g. the InDesign CS2/CS3 filter or the S-Tagger for Framemaker they managed to mess up…
How many people use InDesign/Framemaker?
The MultiTerm problem affects a great majority of translators.
I don’t say the InDesign CS2/CS3 filter is not necessary but when the “adding features” approach takes the advantage over the “clean programming” principle, it’s a huge problem…
Posting such generalizations does really help, indeed ...
I always try to give some examples, so you can’t argue my post is a 100% generalization.
And yes, I think it helps.
If we make pressure on SDL regarding the quality of their programming, maybe they start to fix old bugs before they develop new ones.
Cheers
GG
[Edited at 2008-05-26 17:12]
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Brandis wrote:
All these tools cost lots of money and the market does not pay enough to depreciate these. So why any CAT tools? A healthy minded translator could give at any time much better quality finishing without trados or any other CAT tools. While believing that CAT tools are good we all have invested lots of time in developing TMs but, the disadvantage is that the outsourcer does not understand these workings and does not wish to pay. If yours are paying we have nothing to discuss, but mostly they do not. That is why I am opting out. Brandis
HAHAHA
In detail, not that it's necessary here:
1) much better quality w/o CAT? Come on, that's just silly. If you have a text with lots of repetitions and tricky terminology, in a project shared among various translators, to be completed in a given time frame, a CAT tool provides a definite quality boost.
2) In my experience, clients pay for the text to be translated. If you tell them you didn't use a CAT tool, or typed it all using your left pinky exclusively or did some other silly antics, they will not pay more than they otherwise would. So I suggest that you work in the most efficient way you can.
| | | | | ...blinking marvellous... | Jun 28, 2008 |
Hi guys.
I'm a newcomer, so pardon me if I re-discover hot water. I have admired your exquisite dissertations on Trados and similar CAT Tools. I have used Wordfast but I don't see it as helping me in any way when translating, since there never is a 100% match except in very special cases. I see many jobs listed on ProZ require Trados, so I was thinking about giving it a try, but when I read about bugs, unavoidable error messages, helping oneself with own programming...
I am now truly... See more Hi guys.
I'm a newcomer, so pardon me if I re-discover hot water. I have admired your exquisite dissertations on Trados and similar CAT Tools. I have used Wordfast but I don't see it as helping me in any way when translating, since there never is a 100% match except in very special cases. I see many jobs listed on ProZ require Trados, so I was thinking about giving it a try, but when I read about bugs, unavoidable error messages, helping oneself with own programming...
I am now truly lost. Is a CAT Tool a worthwhile investment? Apart from the cash, does one have to really invest so much time? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | A matter of personal opinion | Jun 28, 2008 |
and also the type of work you do most often.
I definitely do find many advantages in CAT tools, but I admit others may not agree with this viewpoint.
Apart from advantages implied when you process repetitive segments, you get a uniform environment for translating. For example, have you ever translated a PowerPoint file directly? Then you probably know what I am talking about here.
Among others, I translate books of fiction, for which a CAT tool's usfulness... See more and also the type of work you do most often.
I definitely do find many advantages in CAT tools, but I admit others may not agree with this viewpoint.
Apart from advantages implied when you process repetitive segments, you get a uniform environment for translating. For example, have you ever translated a PowerPoint file directly? Then you probably know what I am talking about here.
Among others, I translate books of fiction, for which a CAT tool's usfulness is almost entirely given by the latter advantage - repetitions of segments is not very relevant.
But I still find a CAT tool a good thing to use for that purpose.
Antonin ▲ Collapse
| | | | Brandis (X)
Local time: 02:41
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER | the advantage of the client.. | Jun 28, 2008 |
FarkasAndras wrote: Brandis wrote:
All these tools cost lots of money and the market does not pay enough to depreciate these. So why any CAT tools? A healthy minded translator could give at any time much better quality finishing without trados or any other CAT tools. While believing that CAT tools are good we all have invested lots of time in developing TMs but, the disadvantage is that the outsourcer does not understand these workings and does not wish to pay. If yours are paying we have nothing to discuss, but mostly they do not. That is why I am opting out. Brandis HAHAHA In detail, not that it's necessary here: 1) much better quality w/o CAT? Come on, that's just silly. If you have a text with lots of repetitions and tricky terminology, in a project shared among various translators, to be completed in a given time frame, a CAT tool provides a definite quality boost. 2) In my experience, clients pay for the text to be translated. If you tell them you didn't use a CAT tool, or typed it all using your left pinky exclusively or did some other silly antics, they will not pay more than they otherwise would. So I suggest that you work in the most efficient way you can.
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| Poll on CATs? | Jun 28, 2008 |
Has there been a poll on how many Proz users use different CAT tools? I made a quick search but found nothing but I don't believe there hasn't been one. Has anyone got a link at hand?
Agn.
| | | | Brandis (X)
Local time: 02:41
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER
Hi! There used to be a CAT tool forum and CAT fight etc., but I did not find it either. May be it is in the older archives. Brandis
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