| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | What are "fuzzy matches" for? Thread poster: LilianNekipelov
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Nuri Razi 
Türkiye
Local time: 13:47
Member (2008)
English to Turkish
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| Useful in 90% matches | Aug 14, 2013 |
Fuzzy matches are very useful in 90% matches.
| | | | | As usual, your mileage may vary | Aug 14, 2013 |
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
Well, I have never seen too many repetitions
in my types of translation, except for some catalogue lists that I did. Repetitiveness is really the main enemy of literary translation. In legal translation some larger segments have to be repeated, but only the ones that are identical -- not even a few words different. Writers don't usually even read other authors while working on their books, or least at the initial stages, not to get influenced by their style. Suggestions may really kill your style.
My major specialty in translation is training courseware. The very same phrase should appear on: a) course leader's guide, b) participants' workbooks, c) handouts, d) PPT slides, e) mementos or reminders, f) etc.
If the budget is tight (and in training it usually is), I prefer to give repeats for free on the entire package than having the client hire me to translate only the leader's guide, and then get their staff to copy & paste my translation elsewhere, having to guess anything that fails to repeat.
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
I see the uses of fuzzy matches, or suggestions in general, in technical, or medical translation. I think they are of very little use, or even a nuisance, in many other types of translation, so the use of CAT tools should never be required, because they are just something to help the translators in their work-- and it is for them only to decide if the tools help them or not to successfully complete the project.
In fact, none of my major clients cares whether I use a CAT tool, as long as I don't leave any trace of it. A few lend me a portable license of Pasolo or MemoQ to use in a specific project for various reasons. Yet none asks for discounts on fuzzy matches.
As I have WFC, it is quite useful in all MS Office translation projects, because it preserves most of the formatting. Anyone who has ever used PageMaker or InDesign knows that formatting text in Word is much more painful and troublesome than it should be.
| | | | Theo Bernards (X)
France
Local time: 12:47
English to Dutch
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LilianBNekipelo wrote:
I have been wondering for a long time what the so called "fuzzy matches" are for? ...
...they are meant as a means to light up old and somewhat moist cigarettes? I never understood who came up wit the term, but he or she must have consumed copious amounts of LSD prior to coining the phrase. In my mind's eye I see old and mildewed match sticks whenever I read "fuzzy matches" and as such one could use them for old and damp cigarettes.
I must concur with José, that the term is often abused by translation agencies as a means to pay less for more work. I don't tell my baker I want the second bread at half price, and neither should a translation agency insist on partial rates because I have translated a word or phrase before...
| | | | | A different view | Aug 14, 2013 |
Theo Bernards wrote:
...they are meant as a means to light up old and somewhat moist cigarettes? I never understood who came up wit the term, but he or she must have consumed copious amounts of LSD prior to coining the phrase. In my mind's eye I see old and mildewed match sticks whenever I read "fuzzy matches" and as such one could use them for old and damp cigarettes.
I always thought it had something to do with poodle breeding, maybe sheep.
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LilianNekipelov
United States
Local time: 06:47
Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | I see Sesame-Street-like | Aug 14, 2013 |
Theo Bernards wrote: LilianBNekipelo wrote:
I have been wondering for a long time what the so called "fuzzy matches" are for? ... ...they are meant as a means to light up old and somewhat moist cigarettes? I never understood who came up wit the term, but he or she must have consumed copious amounts of LSD prior to coining the phrase. In my mind's eye I see old and mildewed match sticks whenever I read "fuzzy matches" and as such one could use them for old and damp cigarettes. I must concur with José, that the term is often abused by translation agencies as a means to pay less for more work. I don't tell my baker I want the second bread at half price, and neither should a translation agency insist on partial rates because I have translated a word or phrase before...
"fozzy characters", or slightly fuzzy at times, and I am not even sure why would anyone go through all that fuzziness in literary, or more general types of translation, not to mention give any discounts for it. They would have to pay me extra to read the suggestions.
Fozzy Bear is quite popular here.
[Edited at 2013-08-14 13:13 GMT]
| | | | Erik Freitag
Germany
Local time: 12:47
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
| Banging in a nail with a spanner | Aug 14, 2013 |
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
… I am not even sure why would anyone go through all that fuzziness in literary …
[Edited at 2013-08-14 13:13 GMT]
Lilian, the question you've opened in this thread is a bit like asking: "I just don't get it, why would anyone use a spanner to bang in a nail?" The answer is: Nobody does that.
A spanner is a mighty useful thing if you need to tighten a nut, though.
| | | | | Are you really asking such a basic question? | Aug 14, 2013 |
efreitag wrote: Lilian, the question you've opened in this thread is a bit like asking: "I just don't get it, why would anyone use a spanner to bang in a nail?" The answer is: Nobody does that. A spanner is a mighty useful thing if you need to tighten a nut, though.
I do not understand why you are asking that question, Lilian.
Anybody who has been a translator even for just a short time already knows perfectly well that basic concept, regardless of whether the person is for or against it.
The subject has been discussed thousands of times in multiple translator's forums, privately among translators, in hundreds of training courses, companies that develop those softwares advertise everywhere translators are found, translation agencies demand freelancers to have one or another of those softwares, etc.
It is really dificult to understand that a translator can have such an elementary question.
Or... are you really that new in the field?
| | | | LilianNekipelov
United States
Local time: 06:47
Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | What do you use a spanner for? | Aug 14, 2013 |
efreitag wrote: LilianBNekipelo wrote:
… I am not even sure why would anyone go through all that fuzziness in literary …
[Edited at 2013-08-14 13:13 GMT] Lilian, the question you've opened in this thread is a bit like asking: "I just don't get it, why would anyone use a spanner to bang in a nail?" The answer is: Nobody does that. A spanner is a mighty useful thing if you need to tighten a nut, though.
Just kidding. Not everything is useful to everybody, and this is why certain things should not be expected from everybody. Things vary. This is the beauty.
I don't believe it was discussed recently, especially from this perspective. I am asking this question, because I am puzzled by this particular phenomenon and I wanted to ask this question and explore the problem. I hope it is not forbidden. I thought maybe I would get an answer that will explain to me why it may be expected from all translators to use CAT tools with any type of translation.
If the "fuzzy"matches served as a tool to "tighten" , or in other words, to make the translation perfect, that would have been really great. My experience, however, is quite the opposite, especially in the language pairs that I usually work with -- it is a total waste of time. Much more trouble than real benefits.
[Edited at 2013-08-14 15:02 GMT]
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Natalie
Poland
Local time: 12:47
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...
Moderator of this forum SITE LOCALIZER | Excuse me, Lilian... | Aug 14, 2013 |
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
If the "fuzzy"matches served as a tool to "tighten" , or in other words, to make the translation perfect, that would have been really great. My experience, however, is quite the opposite, especially in the language pairs that I usually work with -- it is a total waste of time. Much more trouble than real benefits.
... but which "experience" are you talking about? You have never used any CAT tools, so how can you have any "experience" with using them? You have started a dozen threads discussing various aspects of CAT tools, but if you are really interested, you should download some CAT tool and try it. Otherwise these discussions (and their purpose) look a bit strange.
| | | | Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 03:47
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
Theo Bernards wrote:
I never understood who came up wit the term, but he or she must have consumed copious amounts of LSD prior to coining the phrase.
The term "fuzzy matches" is derived from the mathematical concept of "fuzzy sets".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_set_theory
| | | | LilianNekipelov
United States
Local time: 06:47
Russian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Of course I used many CAT tools as an experiment, or even for work, | Aug 14, 2013 |
Natalie wrote: LilianBNekipelo wrote:
If the "fuzzy"matches served as a tool to "tighten" , or in other words, to make the translation perfect, that would have been really great. My experience, however, is quite the opposite, especially in the language pairs that I usually work with -- it is a total waste of time. Much more trouble than real benefits.
... but which "experience" are you talking about? You have never used any CAT tools, so how can you have any "experience" with using them? You have started a dozen threads discussing various aspects of CAT tools, but if you are really interested, you should download some CAT tool and try it. Otherwise these discussions (and their purpose) look a bit strange.
and I found them more trouble than they were worth, in my language pairs and the type of translation I usually do. I had a look at some CATs in the Germanic language pairs, and they were not too bad, but then it was more of an experiment, and the texts I tried were not of a very high level of difficulty. I even found mixed languages in the TMs and glossaries. I used at least four tools, I don't want to say which ones, not to spread any bad publicity, because it is not the manufactures fault-- it is just the nature of those programs, I guess. I know how to use at least four very well, but I don't see too many benefits in using them. They might be beneficial in technical and medical translation, perhaps, but not in all types.
[Edited at 2013-08-14 16:05 GMT]
| | | | Jorge Payan
Colombia
Local time: 05:47
Member (2002)
German to Spanish
+ ...
| They result useful precisely for the fields they are used in | Aug 14, 2013 |
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
..... They might be beneficial in technical and medical translation, perhaps, but not in all types.
Surely you are conscious that those technical and medical translations account for more than 90% of the volume of words to be translated worldwide, according to very respectful sources (some go as far as stating 97%). Certainly, CAT tools are of not use in literary translations.
[Edited at 2013-08-14 16:17 GMT]
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| Not so sure... | Aug 14, 2013 |
Jorge Payan wrote:
Certainly, CAT tools are of not use in literary translations.
Right now, I'm using WF to translate a book, some travel adventures. Of course, I don't expect to find ANY fuzzy matches. Hundreds of toponyms in strange languages, whose spelling in the target language I had to research. Whenever I'm in doubt, concordance lets me find any of these I've already translated faster than researching again.
What I think is that every decent translation agency should keep their dignity by never mentioning fuzzy matches. They want us to translate the entire thing properly, right?
| | | | Natalie
Poland
Local time: 12:47
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...
Moderator of this forum SITE LOCALIZER
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
I had a look at some CATs in the Germanic language pairs, and they were not too bad, but then it was more of an experiment, and the texts I tried were not of a very high level of difficulty. I even found mixed languages in the TMs and glossaries.
This means that the user who created these TMs wasn't proficient in using the tool(s).
I used at least four tools, I don't want to say which ones, not to spread any bad publicity, because it is not the manufactures fault-- it is just the nature of those programs, I guess. I know how to use at least four very well, but I don't see too many benefits in using them.
If you know very well how to use four (!) CAT tools, why are you asking what are fuzzy matches?
| | | | Jorge Payan
Colombia
Local time: 05:47
Member (2002)
German to Spanish
+ ...
| I meant : The "fuzzy matches" feature of CAT tools is of not use in literary translations | Aug 14, 2013 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote: Jorge Payan wrote:
Certainly, CAT tools are of not use in literary translations. Right now, I'm using WF to translate a book, some travel adventures. Of course, I don't expect to find ANY fuzzy matches. Hundreds of toponyms in strange languages, whose spelling in the target language I had to research. Whenever I'm in doubt, concordance lets me find any of these I've already translated faster than researching again
Sorry for confusion. In fact I also use the powerful concordance and term extraction functions of DéjàVu for the purposes you describe.
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