| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17] > | The global TM I want... Thread poster: Felipe Gútiez Velasco
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| Have you asked your own customers? | Aug 27, 2008 |
Felipe Gútiez wrote:
I talked to mr. Zetsche from TM marketplace and he told they were just testing the corporations. He puts some TM on sale in internet and what happened?
Felipe, let me ask you a very short question: What do your own customers say when you tell them that you intend to share the TMs you use for their jobs?
| | | | Cristina Santos 
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:46
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| "The global TM I want..." | Aug 27, 2008 |
One that doesn't breach confidentiality and that doesn't allow companies to drive rates down and make big profits for themselves...
I hope my answer "fits" your thread...
| | | | | If Henry does not want I will assume this target, but I would prefer that Proz do this | Aug 27, 2008 |
Claudia Alvis wrote:
, I mean we do need to do something but we need a starting point.
What about ProZ? What do you think Henry?
If you are scared of the responsibility I can start a new company.
TRANSLATORS OF THE WORLD, UNÍOS.
| | | | | Let´s do the TM our way, the way of professional translators | Aug 27, 2008 |
[Editado a las 2008-08-27 09:44]
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| Fuzzy matches... | Aug 27, 2008 |
I want a TM in which:
-the fuzzy that I chose can be evaluated from 1 to 5 by the translator using it and this evaluation is automatically reintroduced in the system so that a democratic quality control system has been created.
For this phrase, in this topic, in this context, this is the most acclaimed translation from this language into that language.
We can name it: crowd quality control system or democratic quality control system or translator-choice based quality con... See more I want a TM in which:
-the fuzzy that I chose can be evaluated from 1 to 5 by the translator using it and this evaluation is automatically reintroduced in the system so that a democratic quality control system has been created.
For this phrase, in this topic, in this context, this is the most acclaimed translation from this language into that language.
We can name it: crowd quality control system or democratic quality control system or translator-choice based quality control system.
For lawyers: is this system "patent pending"?
[Editado a las 2008-08-27 09:41]
[Editado a las 2008-08-27 09:42]
[Editado a las 2008-08-27 09:43] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Abfallprodukt | Aug 27, 2008 |
Tomás Cano Binder wrote: Felipe Gútiez wrote:
I talked to mr. Zetsche from TM marketplace and he told they were just testing the corporations. He puts some TM on sale in internet and what happened?
Felipe, let me ask you a very short question: What do your own customers say when you tell them that you intend to share the TMs you use for their jobs?
For 90% of the clients is TM just a residual product (in German Abfallprodukt). They don´t care at all. More than 50% of the clients have no idea that the translators translate their documents with TM tools. They don´t know what a TM is and have absolutely no interest in knowing it. This is the real world.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 16:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| A TM or a TM tool? | Aug 27, 2008 |
Felipe Gútiez wrote:
So I would like to have a TM that:
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-is very, very, very big, but quick
-with lots of pictures or even videos for terminology
-with terminology tool
-with terminology tool scalable
What you're describing here is not a TM but a TM tool.
The speed of a TM depends almost entirely on the speed of the computer that hosts it. Some file formats lend themselves to faster searches, and some indexing methods can speed things up, but essentially the speed of the TM is determined by something other than the TM.
How would you add pictures to a TM? Pictures are untranslatables, so they would be added to the TM as placeables, surely?
The ability to define and extract terminology from a TM is a function of a tool that is separate from the TM. The TM format itself has nothing to do with the terminology tool's ability to extract and/or define terminology.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 16:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| A global TM needn't be a large TM | Aug 27, 2008 |
FarkasAndras wrote:
Making a large TM (upwards of a million TUs) manageable is problematic. Wordfast is useless at that size and Trados starts to cough and choke at around the 800000 mark, too.
Some translators have this idea that the bigger the TM, the more potentially useful it will be. But IMO a global TM needn't be just one big TM. A good global TM would be one in which you could zoom in on the specific subject field and document type that you're translating. So IMO a global TM would not be a single TM, but a collection of thousands of groups of TMs.
In my opinion, a good global TM site would actually be a kind of social networking site, where groups of translators vet each other's work within the group, but in a way which makes the TMs globally available.
Confidentiality needn't be a problem -- it can be dealt with. If a translator can convince his client of the benefit of participating in a global TM, he could have the client sign (or accept via e-mail) a form of permission to donate some of the translation to the global TM. There could also be several levels of checks performed on submitted TMs to ensure that identifying information is removed from the TM.
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Samuel Murray wrote: FarkasAndras wrote:
Making a large TM (upwards of a million TUs) manageable is problematic. Wordfast is useless at that size and Trados starts to cough and choke at around the 800000 mark, too. Some translators have this idea that the bigger the TM, the more potentially useful it will be. But IMO a global TM needn't be just one big TM. A good global TM would be one in which you could zoom in on the specific subject field and document type that you're translating. So IMO a global TM would not be a single TM, but a collection of thousands of groups of TMs. In my opinion, a good global TM site would actually be a kind of social networking site, where groups of translators vet each other's work within the group, but in a way which makes the TMs globally available. Confidentiality needn't be a problem -- it can be dealt with. If a translator can convince his client of the benefit of participating in a global TM, he could have the client sign (or accept via e-mail) a form of permission to donate some of the translation to the global TM. There could also be several levels of checks performed on submitted TMs to ensure that identifying information is removed from the TM.
Hi Samuel, do you have some technical background? Do you have some contacts with technical background? Do you think doing a global TM is doable?
Has anybody interest in a joint-venture of that kind?
Welcome on board if you are interested Samuel.
Any more?
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 16:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Giving ratings may be a problem... | Aug 27, 2008 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
This would be similar to download.com ratings: one by the editor and one by the users (I have a tendency to trust the latter more than the former, but with language, this may be reversed).
My biggest problem with confidence rating systems is that it assumes that the TM software is integrated with the translator's CAT tool. A good global TM is in my opinion a resource that anyone can use regardless of which CAT tool they have. For this reason, the time at which the translator is in a position to grade the TUs in the TM is necessarily removed from the TM system itself, and the translator can therefore only grade the TM or TUs afterwards (or beforehand) using a separate process.
Another problem is that some participants wil be eager to get TMs but not so eager to spend time doing gradings. A TM grading system would therefore have to be somewhat automatic.
My vision for a global TM is where a translator inputs his requirements online (eg subject field, type of document, etc), and the global TM either generates or selects a TM or TMs based on those requirements. The translator downloads the TM(s), uses it, and then contributes the TM again (if he has his client's permission).
One way in which a global TM might generate a TM is if the translator uploads his documents, the system does pre-matching and outputs a TM that contains 10 (or 100) possible matches for each segment in the source text. This should be done cleverly so that the TM doesn't contain 10 matches that are 90% similar to each other!
As for grading the TM, well, perhaps it should be optional but somehow rewarded. Personally I have great faith in translators' ability to remember things that they translated up to a couple of hours previously. Therefore, one solution may be that the translator uploads his current TM to the system, the system compares it to the TM that was previously downloaded by the translator, and makes a guess about which TUs from the original TM were probably used by the translator. The translator is shown these sentences on screen, he selects the ones that he remembers getting from the TM, and the system displays the original TUs to him to grade. It sounds complicated but if it is automated (also with e-mail reminders from the sytem) it could be useful.
But my greatest faith would be placed in TMs that were contributed by groups of translators on the social networking system I mentioened previously. Translators eventually learn which translators they can trust, and they can add those translators as "friends" or "trusted colleagues" so that their TUs are given priority when doing pre-matching.
Another problem with grading is that there is this assumption that the translator will use only one TM, namely the TM(s) supplied by the global TM. But I foresee that translators will often use the global TM to supplement their own TMs (and not to replace them), which means that it would be very difficult for a program or process to determine whether a match originally came from the global TM or not.
Although I believe that TMs should be downloaded, I also realise what value an online system can have, with search capabilities to do concordance and context searches for individual terms and phrases, online and almost in real time.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 16:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Any specific comments? | Aug 27, 2008 |
Felipe Gútiez wrote:
Hi Samuel, do you have some technical background? Do you have some contacts with technical background? Do you think doing a global TM is doable?
Do you have any specific comments on the items mentioned in my post?
| | | | | The ones doing the TM should be Wikipedia or ProZ, or both | Aug 27, 2008 |
Should be on a low-cost paying basis.
Is anyone willing to pay 30 Dollars/month for having a global TM available?
[Editado a las 2008-08-27 13:33]
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| Sorry, my question is still unanswered.... | Aug 27, 2008 |
Felipe Gútiez wrote: Tomás Cano Binder wrote:
Felipe, let me ask you a very short question: What do your own customers say when you tell them that you intend to share the TMs you use for their jobs? For 90% of the clients is TM just a residual product (in German Abfallprodukt)....
Please Felipe, answer my question: What did your customers say when you told them you intend to share the TMs you use for their jobs? Thanks in advance!
| | | | | Basically they don´t care at all, except for some special documents. What about yours? | Aug 27, 2008 |
Tomás Cano Binder wrote: Felipe Gútiez wrote: Tomás Cano Binder wrote:
Felipe, let me ask you a very short question: What do your own customers say when you tell them that you intend to share the TMs you use for their jobs? For 90% of the clients is TM just a residual product (in German Abfallprodukt).... Please Felipe, answer my question: What did your customers say when you told them you intend to share the TMs you use for their jobs? Thanks in advance!
Just a more question:
Have you asked permission to your clients in order to make a question at KudoZ each time you did? Did they know that you were publishing part of their document in Internet? may be some brandnew term? and that anybody could be aware of what language was it being translated in?
You should know that using the relevant searches you can be getting lots of information..... (never thought about it?)
In this case the translator is disclosing the information in a naive way, but disclosing information in the end.
You should take it easy. With Internet there is almost no way of keeping anything apart. Sorry, no way. It is just like that. You cannot prevent it. It is not a question of to want or not to want. To keep secrets in Internet is IMPOSSIBLE. It is very simple, the ones who think they keep its documents safe, simply don´t know that a lot of people are watching them. If this is the reality, why bother about collaborating for doing better translations? Just take an additional clause in which we tell our clients that they agree with publishing the TMs or any other reasonable way. I agree that there are some documents that are especially sensitive, but 95% are not. In many cases they are published in Internet the next day, so where is the problem?
My proposal is to consult a lawyer (or 1000 lawyers) and do things correctly, but boost the creation of the global TM by the translators. If we don´t take our responsibility, others will do it. Let´s concentrate in the technical and linguistic way of doing it.
| | | | | I'll pay you 30 bucks... | Aug 27, 2008 |
Felipe Gútiez wrote:
Is anyone willing to pay 30 Dollars/month for having a global TM available?
.... to keep it out of my way.
Most of the TMs that I get sent to work with are lamentable. Likewise most of the revision I get sent. I see no evidence thus far to think that any global TM would be anything other than a steaming heap of crud.
Indeed, if anything, that is my hope for any such global TM - that it is full of such utter bilge that there is no cost saving nor any rise in quality and that the whole idea is quickly scrapped as unworkable.
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