| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Productivity: Translate 10 thousand words per day is possible? (No Cat Tools involved) Thread poster: Evelyn de Almeida
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| Hold on, hold on... | Aug 2, 2018 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
If you deal with agencies from certain countries, you are highly unlikely to be either treated or paid fairly, and you will have almost no recourse if things go wrong. Don't get involved. Walk away.
This is so wrong in so many aspects... so ALL the agencies from certain countries will treat you and pay you badly? I'm astonished, to be honest. I understand the recourse problem, but the rest? A massive sweeping statement. Anyway, we decide how much we like to be paid, or not?
| | | | | Still no, thank you! | Aug 2, 2018 |
Daniel Frisano wrote:
I should have been more specific. I am willing to bet $30,000 that I can do it.
- if i can, you pay $30k for the job + $30k extra.
- if I can't, I pay you $30k.
So?
As our late colleague Nicole Schnell once said: “I want to be paid for brain work, not for performance in terms of words per hour.”
| | | | Daniel Frisano 
Italy
Local time: 21:54
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: High quality? Daniel Frisano wrote:
I should have been more specific. I am willing to bet $30,000 that I can do it.
- if I can, you pay $30k for the job + $30k extra.
- if I can't, I pay you $30k.
So?
Publication material?
Yes, real work. Preferably in the technical/science area. If it's patents, it will almost be too easy, I'll be done by the 26th of the month.
As for quality, we can start from here: http://danielfrisano.com/quality.html . Feel free to suggest further criteria.
[Edited at 2018-08-02 12:27 GMT]
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Daniel Frisano wrote: Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: High quality? Daniel Frisano wrote:
I should have been more specific. I am willing to bet $30,000 that I can do it.
- if I can, you pay $30k for the job + $30k extra.
- if I can't, I pay you $30k.
So?
Publication material? Yes, real work. Preferably in the technical/science area. If it's patents, it will almost be too easy, I'll be done by the 26th of the month. As for quality, we can start from here: http://danielfrisano.com/quality.html . Feel free to suggest further criteria. [Edited at 2018-08-02 12:27 GMT]
The wordcount you mention on your profile, is it the number of words you've translated since the start of your career or since the 1st of January 2018?
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Daniel Frisano
Italy
Local time: 21:54
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
David GAY wrote:
The wordcount you mention on your profile, is it the number of words you've translated since the start of your career or since the 1st of January 2018?
If I was able to do 11+ million words in 6 months, I wouldn't be still here. I would have worked a couple of years, cashed the equivalent of ca. 45 million words, and enjoyed the rest of my (hypothetical) luxurious life.
It's 11M over 19 years.
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I wish Proz could organize yearly translation speed competitions for instance
between Daniel the gambler from Monaco, Lincoln, the gambler from
Hong Kong and DJ the cowboy from Australia.
It would be more fun than Proz contests!
[Modifié le 2018-08-02 13:29 GMT]
[Modifié le 2018-08-02 13:30 GMT]
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Daniel Frisano wrote: Yes, real work. Preferably in the technical/science area. If it's patents, it will almost be too easy, I'll be done by the 26th of the month. As for quality, we can start from here: http://danielfrisano.com/quality.html . Feel free to suggest further criteria. [Edited at 2018-08-02 12:27 GMT]
That's all I need to know. I can do that too, but I'm not interested in a competition... 
| | | | | Good old pissing contests... | Aug 2, 2018 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: Daniel Frisano wrote: Yes, real work. Preferably in the technical/science area. If it's patents, it will almost be too easy, I'll be done by the 26th of the month. As for quality, we can start from here: http://danielfrisano.com/quality.html . Feel free to suggest further criteria. [Edited at 2018-08-02 12:27 GMT] That's all I need to know. I can do that too, but I'm not interested in a competition...
Ogni tanto passano le meteore - ma dopo qualche anno su proz.com tutte si assomigliano
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Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:54
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| It was you, not me, who said "ALL"... | Aug 2, 2018 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: Dan Lucas wrote:
If you deal with agencies from certain countries, you are highly unlikely to be either treated or paid fairly, and you will have almost no recourse if things go wrong. Don't get involved. Walk away. This is so wrong in so many aspects... so ALL the agencies from certain countries will treat you and pay you badly?
Please point me to the use of the word "ALL" in my post. You cannot? That would be because I did not use it. The phrase was "highly unlikely".
Since we're naming names, I have never had an agency from India or China accept a rate that I considered remotely decent for my pair, and in the early days I responded to quite a few such posts and inquiries. I don't mean I was asked for 10% or 20% less, I mean half or less of what I get paid by my clients in the UK, Japan or Europe. Nor have I heard of anybody else in my pair ever being paid what I would consider a decent rate.
The above notwithstanding, I did not go as far argue that all agencies and clients in those countries are equally bad: there may be some who pay competitive rates. There may be some people here being paid well by such agencies. That doesn't mean that the majority of agencies from those countries are even close to competitive.
As for their behavior, I have (occasionally) heard of people being treated well and professionally. One name that comes up every now and again is that of a high-profile Indian agency that posts quite a lot on ProZ.com, often using a contact with a western name.
Even then, I have never heard this without there being a caveat: "...but rates are a bit low". Yes. Yes indeed. By all accounts they are. If other people want to accept lower rates, that is entirely up to them, but let's be honest about the fact that they are nearly always lower, possibly significantly lower.
Put all that together and I think the word "highly unlikely" is indeed justified. I would not for a minute claim that agencies from such countries have a monopoly on unfairness and low rates, but I am perfectly happy to argue that the probability of you not being paid properly or dealt with fairly is higher.
That segues nicely into your admission that, if you were to want to take legal action against a company in those countries, you would have no hope. There's a reason those two countries are so far below most western countries in the rule of law rankings.
So let's not sugarcoat the situation. It is difficult enough, and risky enough, to find good agencies in G10 countries, without reducing one's chances even more by tackling Asia ex-Japan. The risk-reward ratio is skewed against you from the start.
Regards,
Dan
| | | | Daniel Frisano
Italy
Local time: 21:54
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
| The 12k x 16h x $10k challenge | Aug 2, 2018 |
All right, since everybody seems to be suddenly chickening out, I'll make it easier for whoever wishes to prove me wrong.
I hereby maintain that I am able to translate 12,000 words of English patents into Italian per day in 16 hours or less, for several consecutive days, quality criteria fulfilled according to http://www.danielfrisano.com/quality.html , human translati... See more All right, since everybody seems to be suddenly chickening out, I'll make it easier for whoever wishes to prove me wrong.
I hereby maintain that I am able to translate 12,000 words of English patents into Italian per day in 16 hours or less, for several consecutive days, quality criteria fulfilled according to http://www.danielfrisano.com/quality.html , human translation, proofreading and formatting included, maximum 5% repetitions. The rules of the challenge are as follows:
- I am to receive the material before 8:00 am and return it before 12:00 midnight.
- I will give you 2:1 odds: you put $10,000, I'll put $20,000.
- I will forfeit my fee for the job. I'll be happy with those $10k.
- To prove that this is sustainable, we can renew the challenge for as many consecutive days as you wish.
- Everything will be documented via video screen capture.
- I'll need a few weeks advance notice in order to clear my schedule.
You know where to find me. I'll wait.
[Edited at 2018-08-02 17:44 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | There is just one thing missing, isn't it? | Aug 2, 2018 |
Daniel Frisano wrote: All right, since everybody seems to be suddenly chickening out, I'll make it easier for whoever wishes to prove me wrong. I hereby maintain that I am able to translate 12,000 words of English patents into Italian per day in 16 hours or less, for several consecutive days, quality criteria fulfilled according to http://www.danielfrisano.com/quality.html, human translation, proofreading and formatting included, maximum 5% repetitions. The rules of the challenge are as follows: - I am to receive the material before 8:00 am and return it before 12:00 midnight. - I will give you 2:1 odds: you put $10,000, I'll put $20,000. - I will forfeit my fee for the job. I'll be happy with those $10k. - To prove that this is sustainable, we can renew the challenge for as many consecutive days as you wish. - Everything will be documented via video screen capture. - I'll need a few weeks advance notice in order to clear my schedule. You know where to find me. I'll wait.
http://www.danielfrisano.com/w4.html
| | | | Natasha Ziada (X)
Australia
Local time: 05:54
English to Dutch
+ ...
Daniel Frisano wrote: All right, since everybody seems to be suddenly chickening out, I'll make it easier for whoever wishes to prove me wrong. I hereby maintain that I am able to translate 12,000 words of English patents into Italian per day in 16 hours or less, for several consecutive days, quality criteria fulfilled according to http://www.danielfrisano.com/quality.html , human translation, proofreading and formatting included, maximum 5% repetitions. The rules of the challenge are as follows: - I am to receive the material before 8:00 am and return it before 12:00 midnight. - I will give you 2:1 odds: you put $10,000, I'll put $20,000. - I will forfeit my fee for the job. I'll be happy with those $10k. - To prove that this is sustainable, we can renew the challenge for as many consecutive days as you wish. - Everything will be documented via video screen capture. - I'll need a few weeks advance notice in order to clear my schedule. You know where to find me. I'll wait. [Edited at 2018-08-02 17:44 GMT]
We get it, you're obviously an exceedingly fast - and good - translator. That is wonderful for you (and I mean it!), but you are likely to be quite unique among translators. As someone else pointed out, there is probably not going to be more than 1% of translators who can do you what you can. Statistically, the majority of translators will not be able to do 10,000 words/day, let alone for a sustained period of time. Therefore, I really don't get these kinds of 'contests' or 'challenges' (which pop up from time to time). Why would anyone pay you to prove that you're a unicorn?
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DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
| integrity of test | Aug 3, 2018 |
Daniel, while it's possible to greatly speed up the process via (A) extreme optimization and (B) automation, I would like to make sure regarding (1) possible MT abuse, (2) solitary work, and (3) non-patents fields.
| | | | Daniel Frisano
Italy
Local time: 21:54
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
Natasha Ziada wrote:
Why would anyone pay you to prove that you're a unicorn?
Because people do funny things, especially when they are ab-so-lu-te-ly sure that something can't be done, by anyone, ever, based on the rationale that they can't do it. Trust me, it happens.
| | | | | The message was clear and loud... | Aug 3, 2018 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
Please point me to the use of the word "ALL" in my post. You cannot? That would be because I did not use it. The phrase was "highly unlikely".
Sorry, Dan, why didn't you say "some agencies" then? To me, the message was clear. But I don't want to open an endless debate now. So, case closed as far as I'm concerned...
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