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End client inserting changes that are incorrect in English, agency wants me to phone them
Thread poster: Iseult Harrington
Gabriele Demuth
Gabriele Demuth  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:13
English to German
Me too... Dec 13, 2016

It was a rather large job and it was clear that the German skills of the end customer's reviewer were not great. They complained that the translation was not very good and picked out about 6 sentences, that were either just reworded or mistakes inserted and they insisted that I make these changes.

I justified my translations and pointed out the mistakes they suggested I should add. The end client admitted that it was not easy, if they had no native speaker available, but continued p
... See more
It was a rather large job and it was clear that the German skills of the end customer's reviewer were not great. They complained that the translation was not very good and picked out about 6 sentences, that were either just reworded or mistakes inserted and they insisted that I make these changes.

I justified my translations and pointed out the mistakes they suggested I should add. The end client admitted that it was not easy, if they had no native speaker available, but continued pointing out more and wanting to have a discussion about it - I didn't quite see, why I should continue spending my time tutoring their non-native reviewer and explain and justify why I did what I did, when they kept coming with more 'mistakes' (there were about 10000 words, so we could have been there for a while).

The agency then had the translation proofread by an independent reviewer and the situation was resolved.


[Edited at 2016-12-13 14:56 GMT]
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Susan Madden
 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:13
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Stay cool - you've given enough proof Dec 13, 2016

Isa Harrington wrote:
I asked the agency for further details of what exactly the client wanted and what their complaint was related to, and I finally received a scanned copy, with what amounted to little more than scribbles in practically illegible handwriting, of several items that the client believed were wrong or to be corrected, changing items such as "to make a plan" to "to do a plan" or changing "your loved ones" to "your beloved".

Oh dear - who hasn't had clients who don't know how to use make/do and yet believe they know better than the professional, native-speaking translator they've hired? Sigh! It's clear from just that one error that they're wasting your time.

I have already spent the best part of 6 hours over the last week dealing with this and honestly do not see what more I can do

That's an awful lot of time. These excerpts from your post make it look as though you're in danger of doing too much here:
I am confident in the quality of the translation, especially after having reviewed large chunks of it after the initial email sent last week by the client.
I also sent the agency a comparison of excerpts of my translation and how it would have turned out if it had been machine translated...
...as well as copies of all of my versions and reviews until the final translation ready to send to the client

Surely, enough is enough. Time to stop and just insist on timely payment for your work?


 
John Fossey
John Fossey  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 11:13
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
Similar situation Dec 13, 2016

A couple of years ago I had a similar situation. I translated the text of a website for some industrial company and about 2-3 months later got complaints that the translation was no good, had to be redone, etc., etc. When I protested the agency pointed me to the end client's website, where I saw the text had been quite garbled and changed. The changes were both in bad English and other changes had been made that were not even in the source text. Evidently some non-English speaker had both re... See more
A couple of years ago I had a similar situation. I translated the text of a website for some industrial company and about 2-3 months later got complaints that the translation was no good, had to be redone, etc., etc. When I protested the agency pointed me to the end client's website, where I saw the text had been quite garbled and changed. The changes were both in bad English and other changes had been made that were not even in the source text. Evidently some non-English speaker had both revised and added to the text and the result was quite a mess. Of course, the end client wouldn't pay the agency who consequently wouldn't pay me.

We got nowhere trying to settle it but finally I told the agency to inform the end client I reserved the right to sue them for copyright infringement, and that produced payment. I don't work for either the end client or the agency any more.
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Kelly Venz
Kelly Venz  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 16:13
Member (2010)
French to English
Been down that road before Dec 13, 2016

I must say I have been down that road before.

A few years ago, an end-client for one of my (agency) clients had several texts to translate into English- which I was happy to do. However, after the third text, it quickly became obvious that the end-client thought he spoke perfect English, and was constantly asking me for clarifications about this or that term. In the beginning I was happy to deal with his questions since the PM wasn't a native speaker of English (her mother tongue wa
... See more
I must say I have been down that road before.

A few years ago, an end-client for one of my (agency) clients had several texts to translate into English- which I was happy to do. However, after the third text, it quickly became obvious that the end-client thought he spoke perfect English, and was constantly asking me for clarifications about this or that term. In the beginning I was happy to deal with his questions since the PM wasn't a native speaker of English (her mother tongue was the same as the end-client's, so she wasn't 'credible' in his eyes) and she asked me if I would mind doing it because I was the native speaker. After which, he got it into his head that he would translate the next text himself, and get me to proofread it- what a mess, but the PM was happy that I was able "show" the end-client that his English was not as good as HE thought it was! After sending that text back the end-client requested a meeting with me over the phone, with the PM present. She originally tried to insist on the meeting being in English, but he quickly asked that we change to his mother tongue because he had trouble understanding me (guess that Aussie accent was too hard to take). The 'meeting' quickly turned into an English lesson- asking why I use 'at' instead of 'from', present perfect instead of simple past (because for him it was the same).... it just so happens that I do teach Business English, so I happy to trot out all the grammar rules to prove my point. As a last ditch to get the upper hand he started questioning the terms I used- but backed off when I casually pointed out that those terms were also used on his company's website, so if he wasn't happy with them, then perhaps a full review of his company's website was in order.

In the end I had one happy PM (who I still work with today), an end-client who finally realised that I knew what I was talking about, and a lovely bouquet of flowers and chocolates sent by the agency the very next day as thanks for my time and patience. Sometimes there are things worth fighting for!
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Rebecca Davis
Rebecca Davis  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:13
French to English
+ ...
It happens more often than you think... Dec 15, 2016

Setting aside the fact that you have a particular problem because payment is being withheld, this happens more often than you think.
I used to get really upset when a non-native speaker waded in to a perfectly good translation and added a whole series of "corrections", many of which bordered on the absurd...
I don't anymore...If the agency questions me, I just point out that as a member of MCIL, I am under an obligation to provide the most accurate translation possible, which I do. I
... See more
Setting aside the fact that you have a particular problem because payment is being withheld, this happens more often than you think.
I used to get really upset when a non-native speaker waded in to a perfectly good translation and added a whole series of "corrections", many of which bordered on the absurd...
I don't anymore...If the agency questions me, I just point out that as a member of MCIL, I am under an obligation to provide the most accurate translation possible, which I do. If the client wishes to change it, then they are free to do so, but I am not responsible for the horrors that result.
If I were you, I would pick out two or three of the howling errors in the client's "corrections", write a detailed explanation to the agency about why these are wrong, ask them to pay you, and leave it at that. They have a duty to pay you. Whether or not the client fails to pay the agency ultimately has nothing to do with you...which is why they are an agency. If they don't, then go down the usual routes...
Please don't waste any more time on something that is the agency's problem...
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Cathy Flick
Cathy Flick  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:13
Member (2003)
Russian to English
+ ...
Bill for your time Dec 20, 2016

At this point (and really sooner), I would just have told them that I will have to bill for any more time spent on the project, at my normal hourly rates. As someone else suggested, it would have been good to just choose a few problems for explanation and tell them that you could do a complete job of explaining why every change is wrong if they pay you by the hour.

My problem is usually with non-technical editors making big mistakes "correcting" my correct technical/scientific langu
... See more
At this point (and really sooner), I would just have told them that I will have to bill for any more time spent on the project, at my normal hourly rates. As someone else suggested, it would have been good to just choose a few problems for explanation and tell them that you could do a complete job of explaining why every change is wrong if they pay you by the hour.

My problem is usually with non-technical editors making big mistakes "correcting" my correct technical/scientific language. They tend to use incorrect terminology and phrasing, and also are bothered by my phrasing which is actually normal in the field but not commonly used in ordinary language.

I tend to spend too much time explaining why they are wrong; I should just reject changes and tell them to ask specific questions if they don't understand why. The vast majority of agencies proceed this way automatically - they are sending the changed doc to the translator precisely so the translator can make the final decision.

With my first such rogue editor, who said it was a good and accurate translation but he thought he could "improve" it, I tried to respect his unnecessary changes but had to reject his many incorrect ones. This was at the end of a long-day. The next morning, after some sleep, I contacted the agency and told them that I could not sign any statement of accuracy for the altered translation if needed later and they really should either accept my original (which I knew was correct) or have another editor check the changed version. I told them I tried to go along with unnecessary changes but really should have simply rejected everything, since the editor obviously did not know patent language and certainly knew nothing about the technical subject. I suggested they use him only for more general texts. Then I also told them that if I had to do any more, I would have to charge them for my time because it already had been too time-consuming. I also said that if they really thought the original editor's changes were valid, they should never hire me again because I was obviously incompetent... Honestly, the guy changed every sentence! He might have been new to editing and felt he had to make changes to prove he reviewed it.

They kept hiring me.
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Iseult Harrington
Iseult Harrington  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 16:13
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Many thanks everyone! Dec 27, 2016

Many thanks, it appears to have been a case of a rogue (new) end customer who wanted to pull a fast one and not pay. I have received my payment from the agency, so am happy, but could have lived without the stress, a few lessons learnt for handling these types of situations in the future!

Season's greetings to everyone


 
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End client inserting changes that are incorrect in English, agency wants me to phone them







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